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[Fired00d]

Jerry,
If you find the article, it would be interesting to know WHAT pressure the HD filter bypasses vs the KN.  If it's bypassing at 60psi, while the KN is at 80psi it really won't make much difference as our motors never build that kind of pressure anyway.  Think of all the leaks we'd have if they did!

Good question. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] This information may be valuable to those of us that have upgraded to the Feuling Oil Pump as it produces significantly more pressure then the stock pumps.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

Good question. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] This information may be valuable to those of us that have upgraded to the Feuling Oil Pump as it produces significantly more pressure then the stock pumps.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

When bone cold your bike with the bypass shim and the fueling pump will pump about 60 psi. It is very important to LET YOUR BIKE IDLE WHEN COLD. After warm up your bike should not exceed 40 pis at WOT!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Fired00d]

Dawg,
Thanks for the info. Just another reason that I like having my bike warm up (from cold starts) until the heads are warm to the touch. Coming from a carb'd Evo and having to use the "enrichner" to get the bike started I had gotten used to letting it warm up before riding away. Granted it's not necessary to wait as long as I did w/carb (now that I have fuel injection), but it is important to let the motor warm up some before riding. I've heard horror stories of owners that think just because they have fuel injection and the bike will idle and compensate (run) when cold they can go "WOT" right away. Unfortunately for them their motors don't last long before they (bikes) are on the lift for some serious motor work.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

The motor actually needs to warm up so all the metal will expand and seal the gaskets tight. That is why you see so many with base and rocker box gaskets (EVO) blown. It does happen with the two cammers also just not as much.

As far as Harleys oil filter bypass goes the stock oil pump on a good day will see no more than30 to 38 PSI cold. So I would think that is why Harley engineers have the bypass set so low. It is also cost effective so go figure. At least they changed the filter media to filter the oil better. But that still does not fix the problem of the bypass opening so early. I use Harley filters and Amsoil filters but I think I will try the K&N.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Midnight Rider]

DC...I've searched the web and can't find anything on the HD filter bypass valve PSI setting...did read some interesting stuff along the way though.  Apparently, there are a lot of cheap a$$ed filters out there...let's just hope HD filter is not made by Fram, I'll put it that way.  Some of these pieces of crap have cardboard on the ends of the filter medium, widely varying surface areas to capture stuff, etc.  I dont think cardboard would be a good thing so have flowing around in the motor of anything.  They're saying that most of the "quicky" oil change places use a filter that is basically not worth a chit.  I don't think Purolater makes a filter for bikes, but from what I read, they  are consistantly rated high on the list for automotive applications.  So was Mobil filters, and K&N got decent reviews as well. From what I've read, the backflow preventer keeps the oil from flowing back through the filter (duh!), but more importantly, it keeps the particles captured in the filter from dislodging DUE to the backflow and recontaminating the oil with the captured particles.  One other place mentioned that 30 microns was about the size of the typical thickness of the oil film everything rides on in the engine, so if something that big gets between two parts, it's a bad thing.  I'm not educated (yet) on the tolerances of our engines in thousanths and how 30 micron particles relate to those clearances.  I'm sure you know about that stuff.

I know my e-mail buddy, George, who has been so helpful with the info on synthetic oils, is working on a filter for bikes (it will be a Mobil brand)...he really is very knowledgable and has a bad case of A/R OCD, so if he designs it, it'll be right.  Meanwhile, I think I'm going to go with the K&N.

[Steve_G]

I use only K&N filters on my bikes and I love them.  Especially the nut on the end of the filter that allows it to be removed so easily.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]-Steve

[Midnight Rider]

Here's the response I got from K&N, in reverse order.  If this is true, and HD claims to filter down to 5 microns, it's BYPASSING a LOT.  I think I'll go with the K&N Chrome filter, especially since it has the convenient nut on the end for removal, and it has the backflow preventer.

Terry,

 

An oil particle is roughly 8 microns in size; our oil filters filter from 10 to 20 microns. I hope this information is useful and if you have any further questions please contact our Customer Support Team at (800) 858-3333. Thank you for your interest in K&N products and have a great day.

 

Sincerely,

 

 Jordan Priestley

 K&N Engineering, Inc.

 Technical Support

 Toll Free (800) 858-3333

 Fax #       (951) 826-4001

 jordanp@knfilters.com

 



 

 

 

The statement above is intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and is not to be publicized, republished, copied or repeated unless done so in its entirety. If you are not a named recipient, you are also on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. You must not disclose it to any other person, copy or distribute it or use it for any purpose.

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Crain [mailto:tcrain2724@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 5:27 AM
To: Epic Tech
Subject: KN 171 filter

 

Question:  Does this filter capture down to 5 microns….10…or what?  If I’m going to pay the same or more than the HD filter, I want to know if it’s going to do a better job, or just the same.  The convenience factor plays a part in this as well.  

 

 

Thanks for your help!!

 

Terry Crain

[110tHunDer]

Terry, thanks for posting your e-mail and response.  Interesting chit.  It seems like there has to be more to the story though, doesn't it?  Why would H-D have spec'd a 5 micron filter if oil is 8 microns?  Seems like it would bypass all the time then, wouldn't it?

Does H-D have somewhere to e-mail a question like that?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Midnight Rider]

Don't know of a place you can e-mail HD tech advice like that...wonder who makes their filters?  If we knew that, we might could ask some questions.  Makes me seriously doubt whether HD filter actually is rated to 5 microns.  If it is, it may only be PART of the filter medium and not all of it.  Most of the sites I've visited on this subject claim that there filters capture from 10 to 30 microns, that's why I asked the question of K&N, plus I was concerned about the HD filter bypassing.  Does anyone know if the HD filter has the backflow preventer like the K&N? Just from a "making sense" point of view, it seems that would be a good thing to have on an oil filter, particulary if the oil goes there first.  If the oil can backflow through the filter, it would dislodge stuff it's already caught, then try to catch it again.

 [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

At any rate, I got my CHROME K&N's delivered by UPS today, so will be trying one out this weekend when I drain the Syn3 out they put in last weekend.  If I notice anything different, I'll be sure and post (pressures, etc).

[SEULTRA]

Terry, thanks for posting your e-mail and response.  Interesting chit.  It seems like there has to be more to the story though, doesn't it?  Why would H-D have spec'd a 5 micron filter if oil is 8 microns?  Seems like it would bypass all the time then, wouldn't it?

[highlight]Does H-D have somewhere to e-mail a question like that?[/highlight]  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Yeah, right.... send them a snail mail and they'll send you a snail mail back telling you to go visit your dealer because they have all the latest and greatest information  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[Fired00d]

Yeah, right.... send them a snail mail and they'll send you a snail mail back telling you to go visit your dealer because they have all the latest and greatest information  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Shouldn't that post belong in the Humor thread. You are joking right....... "go visit your dealer because they have all the latest and greatest information." [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Midnight Rider]

OK...e-mailed my friend in the oil business about the filter thing and this is his reply:

Frankly, there is no way the HD filters to 5 microns..  It is a paper
element which for all intent and purposes is limited to 30 microns, at
best...

K&N is somewhat better, but not by much.

Each filter may well capture the stray 10 micron or even 5 micron
particle but easily 90% of sub 10 micron particles are passing through
both filters..
Additionally, in engine oil filtration we cannot filter below about 6
microns as we begin stripping additive........

[SEULTRA]

Shouldn't that post belong in the Humor thread. You are joking right....... "go visit your dealer because they have all the latest and greatest information." [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Yeah, Fired00d - just a little sarcasm  

[porthole]

The big difference in the Twin Cam oil flow from previous H-D's is that the oil now goes to the filter first,

/quote]

If I remember correctly, my 74 XLCH didn't have an oil filter. I seem to recall putting an aftermarket kit on the bike

[grc]

Jerry,
If you find the article, it would be interesting to know WHAT pressure the HD filter bypasses vs the KN.  If it's bypassing at 60psi, while the KN is at 80psi it really won't make much difference as our motors never build that kind of pressure anyway.  Think of all the leaks we'd have if they did!

After exhaustive head scratching, I remembered where I read the filter test.  American Iron Magazine ran a series of articles by Donny Petersen about oil, and then about filters.  If anyone cares to read thru some of Donny's articles, they are available on his web site: http://www.heavydutycycles.com/techsect.htm   The filter bypass info is in the 3rd article on oil filtration listed on the referenced link.

The information on the filter bypass is copied here.  Also note in the table the difference in the surface area of the filter media between the K&N and the H-D filters.
---------------------
Filter          Part #         Bypass valve         Filter area
K&N           KN-171C       14psi            164sq.in.(73"x2.25")
Fram         PH6022         12psi.           101sq.in.(45"x2.25")
Amsoil        SMF134C      12psi.           106sq.in.(47"x2.25")
A/C Delco  PF53             10psi.             96sq.in.(55"x1.75")
H-D          63731-99       10psi.             63sq.in.(36”x1.75”)
---------------------
BTW - the "bypass pressure" is a pressure differential, not actual oil pressure as measured on your gauge.  

Jerry