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[Mr D]

I recently had my front fork oil changed at my local dealer (reputable) i've noticed excess oil "weeping" down and collecting on the left upper fork cow bell. before the change, no oil present. at first i thought it was excess grease liquifying from the neck bearings. after many (10) times of cleaning and wiping excess grease from the steering neck by now any and all excess should have been removed. i even sprayed with a direct nozzle brake cleaner carefully up and down the upper left fork. if the upper left fork seal is bad what's involved in doing the repair? yes, i'll bring the bike back to the dealer, but looking for sound advice here to keep my dealer a dealer and not a stealer 

Thanks in advance

[Midnight Rider]

I recently had my front fork oil changed at my local dealer (reputable) i've noticed excess oil "weeping" down and collecting on the left upper fork cow bell. before the change, no oil present. at first i thought it was excess grease liquifying from the neck bearings. after many (10) times of cleaning and wiping excess grease from the steering neck by now any and all excess should have been removed. i even sprayed with a direct nozzle brake cleaner carefully up and down the upper left fork. if the upper left fork seal is bad what's involved in doing the repair? yes, i'll bring the bike back to the dealer, but looking for sound advice here to keep my dealer a dealer and not a stealer 

Thanks in advance

The only way to fully service the forks, and not just change the oil, is to pull them, disassemble, clean, replace seals and BUSHINGS, put it back together and fill with PRECISELY the right amount of oil.  While you're at it, you ought to put at least the Progressive Monotubes in the front end...dramatic difference in performance.  Both seals and both bushings should be replaced when servicing the forks.  Bushings have a teflon like coating on them and it wears off rather quickly, contaminating the oil in the process.

[Mr D]

The only way to fully service the forks, and not just change the oil, is to pull them, disassemble, clean, replace seals and BUSHINGS, put it back together and fill with PRECISELY the right amount of oil.  While you're at it, you ought to put at least the Progressive Monotubes in the front end...dramatic difference in performance.  Both seals and both bushings should be replaced when servicing the forks.  Bushings have a teflon like coating on them and it wears off rather quickly, contaminating the oil in the process.

TC,

17k on the front end with Mo Co low profile front springs ...('06 CUSE) Reason for the fork oil change was tire/wheel change and re filled tubes with a heavier oil. Is Front end disassemble required to change fork oil?

[Midnight Rider]

IMO, yes, for exactly the reason you're experiencing now...parts wear and you end up doing it right before it's over with in a lot of cases.

Don't misunderstand me here, as I'm just giving my opinion...the front suspension components on a HD bike are so bad, that simply changing fork oil to a heavier weight only accomplishes one thing...makes the ride harsher/less forgiving.  A good front end works just fine with 5-7wt oil...a poor one won't work well regardless.  This is one of those things that you don't know what you're missing because you have no basis for comparison.  Not everyone wants to go to the top end of the spectrum and put $1400 front suspension on their 35K bike (like the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 cartridges), but something like the Progressive Monotubes make a dramatic improvement, and you can get them in the 1" lower configuration like you have now.  You're going to have the front end apart anyway, so putting the extra $275 +or- into having something you'll really enjoy is worth it...again, my opinion.  HD has also come out with their own full cartridge system for the touring bikes, but it's more expensive, and I don't think they have it in a lowered configuration, but I have not confirmed that.  And somebody else makes it for HD...I don't know who.

With an '06 SEUC, you've got emulators in the forks, which is better than nothing, but with the Traxxion, you'd notice a 100% improvement...with the Progressive, probably a 60-70% improvement, on a scale of 1-100.  It's money well spent, just from a safety standpoint...more predictable handling, vastly reduced front end dive when braking, and a more responsive ride without being harsh.  IMO, it's even more important with a lowered front end to put something better than stock parts in, as you've reduced already limited suspension travel by 1", so the need is greater.

[Mr D]

Thanks for the advice TC 

[B.A.]

Man, do I ever agree with TCnBham.  I put Progressive monotubes in my '01 FLTRSEI2, ostensibly to lower the bike for my wife.  My '11 FLTRUSE was in the shop for a week (warranty work).  I rode the '01.

THE DIFFERENCE IS STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, for the record, she has a V-Star to ride.  Each of us can ride two of our 3 bikes.  Makes for less pain all around!

[Midnight Rider]

That's the problem with suspension...when you get something good on the bike, you very quickly forget just how bad the old, stock stuff was...UNTIL you get on a bike that has the stock stuff, then you appreciate what you've got all over again.  For me, it's all about handling.  Of course, a Road Glide or Ultra Classic is never going to handle as well as some other bikes, but getting it improved just makes the whole thing more enjoyable for me.  Going fast in a straight line is nice, but clipping along through twisty roads just does it for me.  An added benefit to good suspension is additional braking performance, especially on roads that have rough surfaces...it keeps the tires in contact with the surface so much better.  Most people would be shocked to know how much the front tire is hopping off the pavement on a stock HD bike, but you can really tell it after improving things.  It's not chrome, and it doesn't make HP/TQ, and nobody can see it, but it's money spent getting what you've got down on the road surface better.

[grc]

I recently had my front fork oil changed at my local dealer (reputable) i've noticed excess oil "weeping" down and collecting on the left upper fork cow bell. before the change, no oil present. at first i thought it was excess grease liquifying from the neck bearings. after many (10) times of cleaning and wiping excess grease from the steering neck by now any and all excess should have been removed. i even sprayed with a direct nozzle brake cleaner carefully up and down the upper left fork. if the upper left fork seal is bad what's involved in doing the repair? yes, i'll bring the bike back to the dealer, but looking for sound advice here to keep my dealer a dealer and not a stealer 

Thanks in advance

While I can't disagree with the previous comments about the stock suspension, it doesn't necessarily follow that your problem requires rebuilding the forks.  You mentioned there was no oil seepage prior to the service work.  If the dealership just drained and refilled the forks, there would be no reason why the actual seals should immediately start leaking after a simple fluid change. 

When you say the oil is weeping down and collecting on the cowbell, how high up on the cowbell do you actually see oil?  You might have something very simple like a loose fill plug or damaged seal on that plug.  If that's the case, the dealer should verify the oil level is still correct and just fix the plug leak.

In other words, don't assume the worst.  Get someone competent at that shop to recheck their work and see if it's not just a simple thing first.  And I agree, if you have to have the forks removed and rebuilt it makes perfect sense to do the Monotube upgrade at that time.  But don't feel like you have to jump straight to that step first.  Proper diagnosis should still be the first step, not just automatic part changing.


Jerry

[Mr D]

Jerry,

Oil residue can be seen as high as the top of the cow bell just below the inner fairing cap and settles at the bottom of the cowbell where the fork leg enters. Hope this paints a pic.

Thanks Jer

[grc]

Jerry,

Oil residue can be seen as high as the top of the cow bell just below the inner fairing cap and settles at the bottom of the cowbell where the fork leg enters. Hope this paints a pic.

Thanks Jer

That makes me think that my earlier thought concerning the fill plug might be right on the money.  If the main seals and bushings were the problem, that's not where I would expect to find oil.  Have the dealer recheck the fill plug.


Jerry 

[Mr D]

That makes me think that my earlier thought concerning the fill plug might be right on the money.  If the main seals and bushings were the problem, that's not where I would expect to find oil.  Have the dealer recheck the fill plug.


Jerry 

Will Do 

[Hotrod50]

IMO, yes, for exactly the reason you're experiencing now...parts wear and you end up doing it right before it's over with in a lot of cases.

Don't misunderstand me here, as I'm just giving my opinion...the front suspension components on a HD bike are so bad, that simply changing fork oil to a heavier weight only accomplishes one thing...makes the ride harsher/less forgiving.  A good front end works just fine with 5-7wt oil...a poor one won't work well regardless.  This is one of those things that you don't know what you're missing because you have no basis for comparison.  Not everyone wants to go to the top end of the spectrum and put $1400 front suspension on their 35K bike (like the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 cartridges), but something like the Progressive Monotubes make a dramatic improvement, and you can get them in the 1" lower configuration like you have now.  You're going to have the front end apart anyway, so putting the extra $275 +or- into having something you'll really enjoy is worth it...again, my opinion.  HD has also come out with their own full cartridge system for the touring bikes, but it's more expensive, and I don't think they have it in a lowered configuration, but I have not confirmed that.  And somebody else makes it for HD...I don't know who.

With an '06 SEUC, you've got emulators in the forks, which is better than nothing, but with the Traxxion, you'd notice a 100% improvement...with the Progressive, probably a 60-70% improvement, on a scale of 1-100.  It's money well spent, just from a safety standpoint...more predictable handling, vastly reduced front end dive when braking, and a more responsive ride without being harsh.  IMO, it's even more important with a lowered front end to put something better than stock parts in, as you've reduced already limited suspension travel by 1", so the need is greater.

TC, it's my understanding the 09FLTRSE3 is already lowered an inch.  Which progressives or ak's would I use?

[Midnight Rider]

TC, it's my understanding the 09FLTRSE3 is already lowered an inch.  Which progressives or ak's would I use?

HR...to be honest, I don't know if the '09 was lowered an inch in the front.  Perhaps someone who can verify that will chime in.  With no weight on the front end (on a jack) the bottom of my cowbell is level with the top of the fender.  I think if you're lowered, it will be below the top of the fender by approximately an inch.

If you decided to go with the AK's, you just tell them if you want them lowered an inch or not.  With the monotubes, you order the set that is 1" lower.  The lower version is slightly more expensive.  This link has good prices and carries both:

http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PS%2DMONOTUBES&CartID=

[AXIL]

         Mr.D,  look closely at the top of the lower fork bracket. it may be just deluded grease from the head bearing.

[Midnight Rider]

TC, it's my understanding the 09FLTRSE3 is already lowered an inch.  Which progressives or ak's would I use?

Found another thread to clear this up.  The '09 SERG is not lowered an inch in the front...only the rear.  Personally, I would not lower it.

[mjb765]

Just a question..I was think of the Progressive's for the front of my SESG and was told that you did not have to disassemble the fork tube/slider to do this--is that correct? Will everything that needs to come out be accessible with just removing the bolt at the bottom of the slider and removing the plug at the top of the tube? I don't think I would need to completly rebuild everything with only 4000 miles on the front end--unless it all needs to come apart anyway.

[Mr D]

         Mr.D,  look closely at the top of the lower fork bracket. it may be just deluded grease from the head bearing.

"at first i thought it was excess grease liquifying from the neck bearings. after many (10) times of cleaning and wiping excess grease from the steering neck by now any and all excess should have been removed. i even sprayed with a direct nozzle brake cleaner carefully up and down the upper left fork."

 

[Midnight Rider]

Just a question..I was think of the Progressive's for the front of my SESG and was told that you did not have to disassemble the fork tube/slider to do this--is that correct? Will everything that needs to come out be accessible with just removing the bolt at the bottom of the slider and removing the plug at the top of the tube? I don't think I would need to completly rebuild everything with only 4000 miles on the front end--unless it all needs to come apart anyway.

mjb...attached is the PDF file for installing the Progressive Monotubes.  To do it right the first time, I'd replace both seals and both bushings.  They are not expensive parts, and I've never been a big fan of using the same seals or gaskets over again, and especially on something like this that is a relative PITA to do in the first place.  New seals are just insurance against leaks, and the bushings really start wearing quickly due to the coating on them.  You'd just be ahead of the game by taking it all apart and cleaning/replacing, IMO.

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/pdfs/3081-008Mono-tube_cart_fork.pdf

[mjb765]

mjb...attached is the PDF file for installing the Progressive Monotubes.  To do it right the first time, I'd replace both seals and both bushings.  They are not expensive parts, and I've never been a big fan of using the same seals or gaskets over again, and especially on something like this that is a relative PITA to do in the first place.  New seals are just insurance against leaks, and the bushings really start wearing quickly due to the coating on them.  You'd just be ahead of the game by taking it all apart and cleaning/replacing, IMO.

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/pdfs/3081-008Mono-tube_cart_fork.pdf

I see you rpoint and normally I would agree without even thinking about it...but the bike only has 4000 miles on it.....would those seals really need replacing at that mileage?

[Midnight Rider]

I see you rpoint and normally I would agree without even thinking about it...but the bike only has 4000 miles on it.....would those seals really need replacing at that mileage?

Probably not, but I guess the question is do you want to take a chance and have to pull the forks again for a few dollars part?

[cahdbiker]

Mr. D, I had a miniscule amount of leaking on my left front fork. I noticed it at about 7K miles. I let it go until it started to leak a little bit more at about 12K. Fixed under warranty. I had to pay $50.00 deductable, but the charge would have been $312.29 if I would have had to pay. My real reason for the response is this : DO not use BRAKE CLEANING FLUID anywhere there is a chance it could get on your paint, even brake fluid will screw up your paint. Thankfully I know this because of prior experience on an older non HD I had not my 09. Just wanted to save you from a potential disaster if you got some on your front fender or fairing, etc. CAHDBIKER

[Mr D]

Mr. D, I had a miniscule amount of leaking on my left front fork. I noticed it at about 7K miles. I let it go until it started to leak a little bit more at about 12K. Fixed under warranty. I had to pay $50.00 deductable, but the charge would have been $312.29 if I would have had to pay. My real reason for the response is this : DO not use BRAKE CLEANING FLUID anywhere there is a chance it could get on your paint, even brake fluid will screw up your paint. Thankfully I know this because of prior experience on an older non HD I had not my 09. Just wanted to save you from a potential disaster if you got some on your front fender or fairing, etc. CAHDBIKER

Thanks