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[gabe]

 motor all back together but will not start   motor spinning sounds like no spark check all wireing oil perrsure comeing up slowly  please  a helping hand at this point would be great

[Twolanerider]

motor all back together but will not start   motor spinning sounds like no spark check all wireing oil perrsure comeing up slowly  please  a helping hand at this point would be great

Can't know since we're actually hearing/seeing it.  In the hope of simple solutions to simple problems maybe the plug wires on wrong.  The positions aren't interchangeable.  If you're not sure then swap them once just to find out.

[gabe]

Can't know since we're actually hearing/seeing it.  In the hope of simple solutions to simple problems maybe the plug wires on wrong.  The positions aren't interchangeable.  If you're not sure then swap them once just to find out.

thanks but they where tape to frame there right would low oil pressure stop from fireing?

[barefoot3zk5]

have ya got the fuel line connected properly if the qwik connect isnt right .. it wont hit a lick .. double check .. jus sayin .. good luck

[gabe]

have ya got the fuel line connected properly if the qwik connect isnt right .. it wont hit a lick .. double check .. jus sayin .. good luck

tryed that 4 times i can not found problem if the injector plug in oposite would that cause a problem?

[phato1]

Do you actually have spark? Compression good? - pushrods too tight causing lack of said compression? Fuel pressure good?

Other here have established reps as being much more knowledgable than I, but take it one step at a time. check for spark, compression,fuel and correct timing - after that it might get complicated 

[gabe]

Do you actually have spark? Compression good? - pushrods too tight causing lack of said compression? Fuel pressure good?

Other here have established reps as being much more knowledgable than I, but take it one step at a time. check for spark, compression,fuel and correct timing - after that it might get complicated 

pulled the plugs dry like not getting fuel  fuel pump comes on  discounted quick coupler a numrous time and reconnete  compersison looks good whit finger test over spark plug hole

[VANAMAL]

give a squirt of starting fluid into the tb if it fires up then you know its gas.

[cahdbiker]

Gabe, these are all good suggestions. Especially switching spark plug wires from one side to another, and spraying fuel into throttle body. However, unless I missed something you never confirmed spark at the plug. If this correct take off one plug wire, leave plug in head, use old plug and ground it to clyinder head and look for spark. If you see no spark then work backwards checking all your connections. I used to do Ho#%# basket cases for money when I was in college ( this was in the early 70's and it was actually quite lucrative and tax free) and if something wouldn't start it was always because of either no fuel, or no spark. Even if the lifters were too tight they would start, but sounded like they were laboring just to idle. One last thing have you got your cams lined up correctly? Hope you find it and please let us know. GoodLuck. CAHDBIKER

[gabe]

Gabe, these are all good suggestions. Especially switching spark plug wires from one side to another, and spraying fuel into throttle body. However, unless I missed something you never confirmed spark at the plug. If this correct take off one plug wire, leave plug in head, use old plug and ground it to clyinder head and look for spark. If you see no spark then work backwards checking all your connections. I used to do Ho#%# basket cases for money when I was in college ( this was in the early 70's and it was actually quite lucrative and tax free) and if something wouldn't start it was always because of either no fuel, or no spark. Even if the lifters were too tight they would start, but sounded like they were laboring just to idle. One last thing have you got your cams lined up correctly? Hope you find it and please let us know. GoodLuck. CAHDBIKER

thanks for input but iam afraid with the ecm it would short out  and i pulled  plugs no fuel and tryed starting fluided  and no luck  if timeing was off still get fuel   iam lost tryed reseting ecm  by discounting postive side for 15 minutes no luck
should not be this hard thanks for input

[phato1]

I don't think the ECM will have any issue with using a plug grounded to the head to check for spark. But reading your other post in the general CVO discusion area, you may have a communications issue between the security module and the ECM...   Check my response there....

[cahdbiker]

Gabe, see attached page from my 09 service manual. Please take note of section Engine turns over but does not start no. 5. I actually had to help my brother with this exact issue it was not on an HD, but it  is an easy mistake to make. If you are getting fuel and spark the motor has to make some kind of noise even if  it is only a backfire. If I am wrong about that it is probably because I have only had two Harleys and about 30other different brands bikes. Good Luck. CAHDBIKER

[hd-dude]

Check for spark first. If none then check your crank position sensor....

[cahdbiker]

hd-dude, the crank position sensor does need to be pulled and cleaned off on occassion. Just for the record and with no intention of jumping thread, I had a bad CPS on my S&S107. It would start, run for about 10 minutes and then stop. Wait 10 minutes and do it again same results. This is not relative to this post, bute it crossed my mind when you mentioned CPS. I put in a new one and problem was solved.CAHDBIKER

Check for spark first. If none then check your crank position sensor....

[gabe]

Gabe, see attached page from my 09 service manual. Please take note of section Engine turns over but does not start no. 5. I actually had to help my brother with this exact issue it was not on an HD, but it  is an easy mistake to make. If you are getting fuel and spark the motor has to make some kind of noise even if  it is only a backfire. If I am wrong about that it is probably because I have only had two Harleys and about 30other different brands bikes. Good Luck. CAHDBIKER
[/quote  thanks i will check in to it but think  its the ecm no fuel or spark

[sadunbar]

Gabe - When you toggle the ignition switch on, does the fuel pump run for a few seconds as it typically does?  Or does the fuel pump do nothing?

[gabe]

Gabe - When you toggle the ignition switch on, does the fuel pump run for a few seconds as it typically does?  Or does the fuel pump do nothing?
 it runs like it should i really think ecm is bad no fuel  crank sensor works when you try to start it it goes up to 300 on tach
check codes none there ? this thing is driveing me to the poor house   i did not call to see what a ecm would cost but i bet its $500.00 dollars

[sadunbar]

Gabe - If I understand correctly, your bike turns over fine, but does not try to start...  And all your other electrics work fine also (except your motor doesn't start).  Correct?  And you're sure your plug wires are not swapped.  Correct?

Check your coil voltage at the coil plug with meter.  The yellow/green wire.  It should go to 12+ volts when the ignition switch is toggled on. It won't stay at 12+ volts - it will only go there while your fuel pump cycles.   If it does, and your fuel pump runs normally, your ECM is likely fine.  If both these things work, replace your crank sensor.  It's cheap and simple - and won't necessarily throw any codes if it isn't functioning.  If the crank sensor is not functioning properly, you will not have spark when trying to start your motor.

Have you checked your cranking compression?  Are you sure your pushrods are adjusted properly and you have compression? 

[gabe]

Gabe - If I understand correctly, your bike turns over fine, but does not try to start...  And all your other electrics work fine also (except your motor doesn't start).  Correct?  And you're sure your plug wires are not swapped.  Correct?

Check your coil voltage at the coil plug with meter.  The yellow/green wire.  It should go to 12+ volts when the ignition switch is toggled on. It won't stay at 12+ volts - it will only go there while your fuel pump cycles.   If it does, and your fuel pump runs normally, your ECM is likely fine.  If both these things work, replace your crank sensor.  It's cheap and simple - and won't necessarily throw any codes if it isn't functioning.  If the crank sensor is not functioning properly, you will not have spark when trying to start your motor.

Have you checked your cranking compression?  Are you sure your pushrods are adjusted properly and you have compression? 

its a new build  i have been asked about push rods and i guess i dont understand  if adjust right or not we are looking for gas and spark spun motor more then once pulled plugs look like i just installed no gas clean
also did the fuel line disconeck for tank more then once and always get fuel
timeing  or any thing else should not stop fuel  i think???
also i was going to try to short plug like the old days to see if there is spark but afraid it would short the ecm if not already bad
thanks gabe

[sadunbar]

Gabe -

For your motor to start you need spark, gas and compression.

It's a simple test to ensure you have compression.  Pushrods not adjusted properly could cause you to not have compression.  I'd suggest you do a quick compression test - and if it's good - then you can cross compression off of your list.

If your fuel pump is cycling with the ignition switch, you likely have fuel pressure.  The same wire circuit that supplies voltage to your fuel pump also supplies power to your coil.  If your getting power to your coil (you should check and verify this with a meter), and your plug wires are on the correct spark plugs, then the next suspect component would be your crank sensor.  Trust me - your crank sensor can fail in a moment - without any prior symptoms - and they generally do not leave a code behind. I'd suggest you replace it regardless - it's cheap and easy.  It could very easily be your problem.

Another possible problem could be your injectors.  Do you have them plugged in correctly?  No wires broken?  Check continuity with your meter.

The only was to solve your problem is a systematic troubleshooting process - thinking your way thru it.  I've tried to give you some basic things to check.  If you have a meter and are understand what to look for, you can eliminate a lot of potential causes.

Good luck...

[gabe]

Gabe -

For your motor to start you need spark, gas and compression.

It's a simple test to ensure you have compression.  Pushrods not adjusted properly could cause you to not have compression.  I'd suggest you do a quick compression test - and if it's good - then you can cross compression off of your list.

If your fuel pump is cycling with the ignition switch, you likely have fuel pressure.  The same wire circuit that supplies voltage to your fuel pump also supplies power to your coil.  If your getting power to your coil (you should check and verify this with a meter), and your plug wires are on the correct spark plugs, then the next suspect component would be your crank sensor.  Trust me - your crank sensor can fail in a moment - without any prior symptoms - and they generally do not leave a code behind. I'd suggest you replace it regardless - it's cheap and easy.  It could very easily be your problem.

Another possible problem could be your injectors.  Do you have them plugged in correctly?  No wires broken?  Check continuity with your meter.

The only was to solve your problem is a systematic troubleshooting process - thinking your way thru it.  I've tried to give you some basic things to check.  If you have a meter and are understand what to look for, you can eliminate a lot of potential causes.
  iam going to try a crank sensor even tought it goes to 300 rpm  is there anything else that would shut down the fuel like a pressure switch
thanks gabe
Good luck...

[sadunbar]

"is there anything else that would shut down the fuel like a pressure switch"

Your fuel travels from your tank to your injectors via the fuel pump/regulator/filter.  If your pump is cycling when you toggle the ignition switch, it likely has pressure.  Pressure can be verified with a pressure gauge if you want to rig one together.   If you have pressure, then it's up to your injectors.  It would be worth checking to ensure they are plugged in correctly.

At the end of the day, if you don't have a hint of it trying to start, it's more likely spark vs. fuel.  That's providing you have proper compression to start with..

Here's a photo of a setup to check fuel pressure....

[sadunbar]

An update, Gabe?


Quite honestly, after thinking about it more, before doing any electrical/fuel checks, or spend money replacing electrical components - check your compression.  It's by far the most likely culprit.  Pushrods incorrectly adjusted, or rocker arms hitting your rocker box covers....something simple like that.  It's a five minute check - and it's free. 

Your problem could be a component issue, but since you've had everything apart and back together mechanically with so many new components, it seems more likely that lack of compression is where your problem lies...

Let us know...

[gabe]

 got it runing thanks for the input  now for new problem i bought ss adjustable push  i have more leaks with them can i use my 110 push rods with the rollor rockers and stop all this
thanks gabe

[sadunbar]

got it runing thanks for the input  now for new problem i bought ss adjustable push  i have more leaks with them can i use my 110 push rods with the rollor rockers and stop all this
thanks gabe

Don't leave us hanging...  What was the original problem?   


Where are you leaking?  (I assume you're leaking oil??)  At the heads or at the lifter block?  If all the o'rings are in place, you shouldn't have any leaks...  Can't answer your question about using your 110 pushrods without knowing more about your rocker arms and cams...  But I suspect you're going to want to use adjustable pushrods...

[gabe]

Don't leave us hanging...  What was the original problem?   


Where are you leaking?  (I assume you're leaking oil??)  At the heads or at the lifter block?  If all the o'rings are in place, you shouldn't have any leaks...  Can't answer your question about using your 110 pushrods without knowing more about your rocker arms and cams...  But I suspect you're going to want to use adjustable pushrods...

compression put roller lifter in and did mot shave the webing  did that now a lot of tapping in upper boxes not happy about that thinking about takeing them back off and trim some more  pushrods all o rings installed leaks from the middle    ss covers do not go all the way to top  so used the harley covers also   

[sadunbar]

compression put roller lifter in and did mot shave the webing  did that now a lot of tapping in upper boxes not happy about that thinking about takeing them back off and trim some more  pushrods all o rings installed leaks from the middle    ss covers do not go all the way to top  so used the harley covers also   

So your rocker arms were hitting your rocker boxes, not allowing the valves to close - hence no compression...  Glad you found it.

If you suspect your rocker arms are still hitting your rocker boxes at all, you're going to want to correct it...  It will only lead to future grief.

Can't understand why your pushrod tubes would leak if all the pieces are correctly installed - especially from the middle.  That's extremely rare....  I'd suggest taking them off (and apart) and double checking everything is there and is in good condition.

[mjb765]

So your rocker arms were hitting your rocker boxes, not allowing the valves to close - hence no compression...  Glad you found it.

If you suspect your rocker arms are still hitting your rocker boxes at all, you're going to want to correct it...  It will only lead to future grief.

Can't understand why your pushrod tubes would leak if all the pieces are correctly installed - especially from the middle.  That's extremely rare....  I'd suggest taking them off (and apart) and double checking everything is there and is in good condition.

I agree...strange that they would leak in the middle...anyway..taking them apart and switching from adjustable pushrods back to solids is not going to have any effect on the leak......unless you fix the problem while everything is apart while you are changing the pushrods.

[gabe]

So your rocker arms were hitting your rocker boxes, not allowing the valves to close - hence no compression...  Glad you found it.

If you suspect your rocker arms are still hitting your rocker boxes at all, you're going to want to correct it...  It will only lead to future grief.

Can't understand why your pushrod tubes would leak if all the pieces are correctly installed - especially from the middle.  That's extremely rare....  I'd suggest taking them off (and apart) and double checking everything is there and is in good condition.

the breather tubes do not go all the way to top ? thats why i used the harley ones to fill the gap
iam i missing something???

[sadunbar]

the breather tubes do not go all the way to top ? thats why i used the harley ones to fill the gap
iam i missing something???

Are you using the complete Harley pushrod tube assembly, or did you combine part of the Harley pushrod tube with part of the S&S pushrod tube?  If this is what you did, there two halves must be different diameters, hence the leak.  If this is what you did, it's not a good idea...

It's extremely rare that the Harley pushrod tubes (the complete Harley pushrod tube assembly) would leak at the middle joint if all the correct pieces are there.  There are o rings in the middle joint (amongst other pieces), as well as the at the top (head) and bottom (lifter block).

[gabe]

 just useing ss pushrod tubes  but had to add harley push rod keeper to tube  to finish off and lock them down ??
ss push rod keeper does not go to top

[sadunbar]

just useing ss pushrod tubes  but had to add harley push rod keeper to tube  to finish off and lock them down ??
ss push rod keeper does not go to top

There's no reason the proper S&S pushrod kit should not work on your motor.  What part# S&S pushrod kit are you attempting to use?

[gabe]

There's no reason the proper S&S pushrod kit should not work on your motor.  What part# S&S pushrod kit are you attempting to use?

93-5095 ss

[sadunbar]

93-5095 ss

Although these aren't the S&S "quickie" adjustable pushrods, what you have should work fine.  Can't help you with this one, Gabe...

http://www.sscycle.com/product/cart.php?m=search_results&search=93-5095

http://www.sscycle.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=22399

[gabe]

Although these aren't the S&S "quickie" adjustable pushrods, what you have should work fine.  Can't help you with this one, Gabe...

http://www.sscycle.com/product/cart.php?m=search_results&search=93-5095

http://www.sscycle.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=22399

thanks i figure it out  you need to use the spring loaded of hd push rod covers for them to work  could not found it in the instruction