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[1abastarsmda]

2012 SEUC with about 4000 miles.  Stock except for V&H exhaust, Rush mufflers, and SE race tuner download.  Whenever I twist the throttle to speed up, I hear a noise that sounds like it's coming from the front cylinder that sounds very similar to the sound you would hear with gravel hitting the inside of a fender.  It's a very distinct sound, completely separate from all the other noises these engines make.  I would say it would be like the sound of maybe 4 or 5 small pieces of gravel hitting (and no, there's not actually any gravel involved at any point).  It's more pronounced if I try to crack the throttle hard from any constant rpm I am traveling at and try to jump on it to get the rpm's up, although it is less pronounced in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd gears.  It also appears like it's a delay in the response to getting to the higher rpm's.  Once it gets through that little "transition period", the noise goes away until I try to crack the throttle again.  It's not that I am trying to ride at too low an rpm for the gear I'm in.  I can be doing 80 mph and crack the throttle to pass and I will hear it for a few seconds.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?  I have not had anything checked out on it yet, as I have no idea where to even start.  I had the same sound back in 07 on a 96" Road Kind I used to own.  It wasn't doing this a few weeks back, but as the temperatures have started climbing, the problem started and it seems to escalate as the engine gets hotter after riding awhile.  I never experienced this with my 09 SEUC.  Could it be as simple as needing a good dynotune or do I have some sort of mechanical problem? 

[Twolanerider]

Best guess is you're describing detonation.  Whether it be from warmer weather, poor fuel, a bad tuning effort, carbon build up or some other curse that would be my best guess based on your description.

[1abastarsmda]

Thanks Don,

Detonation is exactly what the conclusion was when I discussed this with a few guys I ride with.  I wanted to throw this out there and see if anybody came to the same conclusion and you hit the nail on the head right away.  I'm going to try what I can do myself quickly (new plugs, check the wires, make sure my exhaust is tight and not leaking, some Lucas Fuel Treatment, check error codes) and get it scheduled in for a dynotune.  Does that cover it, or is there anything else that I should be looking for.  I'll also check to make sure I don't have any vacuum lines pulled off anywhere.  I don't know if all of these things are possible cures, but I think the probability that I'll screw something up further would be slim.

[2k]

Did you change fuel brands? We are given two choices in fuel these days.......bad & not to bad. Plugs will probably solve it. I like Sea Foam for an additive, but all Lucas products are top notch. Good luck!

[grc]

If this is a new phenomenon, as opposed to something that's been going on for a long time, it's unlikely that the tune is the root cause.  As others have mentioned, the actual fuel quality may be a problem, or anything that would cause a lean mixture like an intake air leak.  And many people have had problems with carbon buildup with Harley's, especially the CVO's with open chamber (hemi) heads.  A sensor going bad could also cause something like this.  And that's all assuming you actually have detonation.  Check for loose heat shields or exhaust leaks, they can also sound like pinging.

I think before I paid someone to do a tune I'd make sure all those other possibilities were checked and taken care of first.  Doing it the other way around will not fix the real issue, but just cover it up for awhile.  Then when you eventually fix the real problem the tune will need to be done again.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Thanks Don,

Detonation is exactly what the conclusion was when I discussed this with a few guys I ride with.  I wanted to throw this out there and see if anybody came to the same conclusion and you hit the nail on the head right away.  I'm going to try what I can do myself quickly (new plugs, check the wires, make sure my exhaust is tight and not leaking, some Lucas Fuel Treatment, check error codes) and get it scheduled in for a dynotune.  Does that cover it, or is there anything else that I should be looking for.  I'll also check to make sure I don't have any vacuum lines pulled off anywhere.  I don't know if all of these things are possible cures, but I think the probability that I'll screw something up further would be slim.

That something in the existing tune changed is a less likely alternative Dave.  Fuel treatments are a band-aid.  If it is detonation need to find what has changed to cause the detonation even if you eliminated it down to just summer weather (in which case tweaking the tune could come in to play).

Did the same tune ping last summer?  If not you know something new is going on and it's not just an overly aggressive tune.  Perhaps the vacuum leak you've mentioned? Perhaps more carbon accumulation in the head to raise compression a bit?  Perhaps a sensor?  Might be some trial and error to track it down but fuel additives or changes to the existing timing map are likely only palliatives rather than cures.

[Twolanerider]

or.......   what Jerry said ^ 



could save so much time if would read ahead before posting sometimes....   

[dlaws01]

I would follow the advice of Twolanerider and Jerry,  not necessarily in that order, or maybe in that order, hold on, I have to go re-read their post again. . .

[1abastarsmda]

As far as fuel brands, most of our fuel stops around here end up at Sheetz stores, but as it goes with riding, I fill up wherever we end up when someone needs gas.  With the variety of gas going in, the number of tanks I've gone through with the problem existing, and none of my friends having the same issue, I'm shying away from gas being the culprit. 

This bike was new in September, so I have no past summer issues to compare to.  I'm going to try to check things out by early this afternoon and give it a good test ride to see if anything has changed.  Thanks all.  I'll report in if I have anything worthy of reporting about.

[Twolanerider]

As far as fuel brands, most of our fuel stops around here end up at Sheetz stores, but as it goes with riding, I fill up wherever we end up when someone needs gas.  With the variety of gas going in, the number of tanks I've gone through with the problem existing, and none of my friends having the same issue, I'm shying away from gas being the culprit. 

This bike was new in September, so I have no past summer issues to compare to.  I'm going to try to check things out by early this afternoon and give it a good test ride to see if anything has changed.  Thanks all.  I'll report in if I have anything worthy of reporting about.

Good luck getting it sorted.  Hope it's an easy one .

[grc]

As far as fuel brands, most of our fuel stops around here end up at Sheetz stores, but as it goes with riding, I fill up wherever we end up when someone needs gas.  With the variety of gas going in, the number of tanks I've gone through with the problem existing, and none of my friends having the same issue, I'm shying away from gas being the culprit.  

This bike was new in September, so I have no past summer issues to compare to.  I'm going to try to check things out by early this afternoon and give it a good test ride to see if anything has changed.  Thanks all.  I'll report in if I have anything worthy of reporting about.

OK, that answers one question.  If your weather has been similar to what we've had around here this is probably the first really hot weather with summer blend fuel in the tank the bike has seen.  So perhaps it is the tune, considering you downloaded one of Harley's canned maps (assuming I read your first post correctly).  I'd still check the other possibilities first to be sure though, then if all is well have the bike tuned by a competent pro.

Jerry

[1abastarsmda]

Changed out the plugs, tightened exhaust flanges, nothing else seemed to be out of place.  It seemed like all was good for a little while, but as the day went on, and the hotter the engine was running, the worse it got...just like yesterday.  Scheduled a dyno tune for July 9th, although I hate waiting that long to get it done. Between the detonation and the valve train noise in general, I'm very glad I upgraded my stereo.  I got on my friend's '13 SEUC Anniversary today and his engine is quiet and smooth.  It doesn't make sense to me since we have the same exhaust and mufflers, bought our bikes the same week from the same dealer, so I assume they would have loaded the same base map in both bikes.  His throttle response blows mine away, as does the sound of the exhaust.  I don't think any tune will get mine sounding as sweet as his does. 

[Twolanerider]

With the new bike you wrote you bought the Race Tuner and had a map installed.  Are you sure he did too?  If not that would be a difference.  For that matter just because you both might have bought identical bikes and added identical parts is no guarantee that two different techs would download the same map from the library. 

If he does have a Race Tuner and a downloaded map get him to look to see which map was used.  Compare against yours to see if the same was selected.  That's an unfortunate problem with library based maps.  You can't know how well they were made nor how good they might be even if the description generally matches your specs.  It's a real crap shoot.  Almost have to be willing to do the monotonous diagnostic riding lugging along a laptop and with a taped scale over the throttle for sensor position indices to dial the damn things in.

Good luck getting it sorted.  Tuner within range that you're comfortable with?

[1abastarsmda]

Yes, he has the race tuner also and I'm pretty sure it was the same tech did both bikes.  As far as finding out which map was used on either bike would be like trying to gum off the bottom of your shoe.  I have another friend with a 2011.5 SEUC that had his dyno'd there and his runs and sounds great too.  I did get the manager to agree to find the tune from his bike and give that a try as a starting point for mine, but they don't want to give it up without completing the tune and lose the $'s.  Again, he also has the same exhaust and mufflers, so I would think other than minor variations, just loading his map into my bike should get mine running well, if it's ever going to.  I'd rather just go ahead and let them do what they need to do to make a buck off of me if it will get it running well.  I did mention the idea of me paying about half the price of a dyno just to get that map loaded and he did agree that he could do that to give it a try, but I got the impression that if it wasn't just right, I was still going to pay the full price for a dyno to get it correct on top of the first payment.  I thought that I would be laying too much opportunity on the table to leave something a little off and then have to schedule again, and be stuck riding it as is again for a while.  I think I'm like most of us...I'm fine with paying for something if it's done right the first time.  By the way, the same tuner did my last bike and I was pleased with the results.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah.....  if choosing between paying half the cost of a good tune for another generic library download or ponying up to actually get the bike dialed in I'd go for the latter also.  Here's to hoping it runs like a scalded goose when it's done .