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[FlaHeatWave]

A good friend of mine got a S&S 124 crate for his Skunk (it was either June or July of '14) with the SE Cases

[Unbalanced]

How does he like the motor?

I can't wait for them to unveil the new 144 and larger motors that fit under the frame and enough room to fit you hand.

144 b2 with 2 bolt flanges. Exciting for sure.

[FlaHeatWave]

He loves it! ('Has the HC 640s in front of the DD7/Scorpion). 'Coming off of a "full boat" 113" that lasted a little over 35k, before that, the SE Stage III that was in the Skunk when he bought it new, dumped around 16k. ( he averages around 40k / year for the last 6-7 years.)

Like myself (and others) he was satisfied with the performance of the Stage III and was just looking for reliability / durability in a "Sport Touring" platform. We'll know in a year or two if the S&S 124 Crate fits the bill...

As I posted here (and other places); "If I would have known that S&S was coming out with the 124 in Granite, before I reached the point of no return with the 117 Build, I would have definitely gone that route." We did use the S&S 4-3/8 Crank (.0005 installed w/Timken), Premium Lifters, Roller Rockers in the 117.

For me ("Sport Touring"), the 124 Crate has a lot going for it;
1) Well Designed / Thought Out,
2) A good Dealer Network,
3) Warranty, and if you do have any issues, only 1 phone # to call (not a lot of finger pointing by different manufacturers that don't necessarily want to stand behind their products)

IMHO if I was an Indy, I would give the 124 Crate a lot of consideration for my (especially big miles) customers (see #3)

As far as the Monster Motors that S&S is launching, I'm too old for that stuff ~ and the driver's license would have a hard time too , "Oh to be young again..."

Peace Out! 'Gotta Ride!
Ed
   



 

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I have had one in a touring bike for almost 12 years with very few issues.    Definitely recommend them,

However I am not a fan of the new cases with external lines.   IMO I would go T2 only if you had the passages for oil machined .  Recommend B&D Racing for this.   Or use your Hatley stock cases and do the 585 with lower compression.

Quick and fun for touring without the heat.

[INDEPENDENT_1]

How does he like the motor?

I can't wait for them to unveil the new 144 and larger motors that fit under the frame and enough room to fit you hand.

144 b2 with 2 bolt flanges. Exciting for sure.

Im told the stock frame may not hold up to the power those new motors are supposed to be when they come out and aside from warranty, I cant think of any reason other than the frame not handling it well as to why only 10.5:1 compression. I know youre making 150 HP on your 124 but a guy that rides with you says hes making about 128 HP and you cant get away from him. I dunno, maybe its just the rumor mill but if your making 150 HP with a smaller baffle than everyone else and less compression than everyone else making that number, I'd like to see the power it makes on a calibrated dyno with a strain gauge that takes an actual measurement of power like a torque wrench does rather than one that uses the same formula or algorithm that simply computes a number based on how fast your bike will accelerate an 800 lb drum. Speaking of that, do you think once an 800 lb drum gets spinning its going to show a 2 lb torque or HP loss with that much mass and inertia spinning? How can that algorithm be the same on a worn out 50cc dirt bike with a tire almost flat as a Boss Hoss bike with NOS and a 300mm tire and a mag wheel with a tire thats over inflated? For the new engine, I know the bore is already been established but Im told they are still testing to establish the stroke and it looks like its going to be a 142, not a 144. At least thats what my S&S rep said but like you said, he probably lied to me.  We just finished up a 124 with the T2 cases here that is getting a 2-3 page magazine feature. The new cases really are much beefier than the SE cases without question.

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I never said they lied to you, you said that I just said you could get SE case built 124's and that I was told the new motor was 144 and or bigger.

One frame holds a 155 hp and the other 167 so someone saying the frame won't hold is a side bar to be discussed.  Normally if it will break I will find away.  So far hasn't been the case for me in 5 different bikes granted all were pre 07 bikes and FL's. Can't speak first hand as the highest I have seen was in an 08 126 at 155, but don't know the guy or if anything broke, but they did have to cut the frame and bring up the backbone for that G^2 motor.

I will prolly try the new motor but with passages cut into it vs external oil lines as that scares me to break a belt and cut that hose and oil down my rear tire.

[twinotter]

  It sounds like S&S had to find a way to get around the patented oil system on the TC engine.
What would be wrong with using SS braided hoses or possibly a guard over the hoses to protect them from the chance a broken belt would take them out. Because the hoses are actually in underneath and behind the tranny pulley, would it even be possible for a broken belt to strike the hoses?
The next alternative is to change to chain drive with a 530 EK ZZZ chain, and forget about breakage! fwiw twinotter

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I don't know if there is enough  room for the braided hoses there to support it safely?

It would have to be measured but IMO why mess with it as I'd rather have it internally in

The other side of the quandary is the warranty or Screaming eagle cases and warranty on the motor.

[FlaHeatWave]

My friend with the Skunk has the SE Cases and Warranty from S&S

As far as overpowering the frame, some upgrade suspension and it should be good to go.

I know the '09 is just a low compression 117, but with the rest of the bike dialed in (Suspension, GlidePro Bushings, Aerodynamics), it's not running out of bike, it's running out of road, pulling hard past the pin in top gear.

Go to chain if you're going to beat on it (not for me, but to each his own)

BTW, Does anybody know what the actual (mathematical or GPS) speed is at 4k in top gear (1:1) on the '09 SERG with stock tires / gearing

[INDEPENDENT_1]

Well, you said my statement was "not true" which in my mind would be a nicer way of saying that I am lying or ignorant of what is and isnt available from S&S. In conversation with both, my S&S rep and the sales line at S&S and (Jen) there are no more FL T124's available with SE cases. That's what the parts numbers in the S&S system show and that also what my S&S rep told me. Jen, one of the sales people at the S&S facility even double checked with higher ups before telling me what I've understood to be the facts from 3 different S&S employees. As an S&S dealer and currently having prices cheaper than anyone in the industry on S&S parts, I would think they would be telling me correct information regarding their products and availability. But, maybe you're more connected than I am.

I have the SE cases in my personal 2012 RGC. IMO and in my experience in installing these motors using both types of cases, I can understand wanting to keep the internal oil lines. However, if you do plan to bump compression up, especially on the newer engine, I would prefer the S&S cases. They are MUCH beefier and I am currently uploading a series of 4 videos to YouTube of drilling. tapping and installing the external line kit. After trimming the lines and installing everything nicely, I think the external oil line concerns are being taken from a mountain into a molehill. We considered doing braided stainless lines for the one we just finished that will be featured in the magazine but in the end because they are out of sight and after trimming and securing the lines correctly, the customer felt there was no need for braided stainless lines and I didnt disagree. If a customer wanted braided stainless, Id be more than happy to install them instead of the S&S external oil line kit. We will also be posting a lot of pictures and the videos on our shop Facebook page very soon. So far, the 4 part video series of drilling and tapping the oil line kit provided by S&S has parts 2 and 4 uploaded to YouTube. Parts 1 and 3 will be up shortly.

As another poster mentioned, the likelihood of the oil lines getting caught in the belt, I think the chances are much smaller than say... buying a new 2014 or 2015 HD and finding the crank run-out is less than .003". I dont know if thats a good perspective but its just what popped in my mind as I type this.

As for chain drive, and as from shat Im told the new bigger motor is going to be at in terms of static compression (I am not allowed to discuss that at this point) there is MORE THAN PLENTY of room to increase compression on it and when you starting talking about the kind of power these new motors can put out in stock form, never mind if you put the compression up a couple of 2 whole points of where some motors are on pump gas these days with good tunes in them, I dont think the SE cases would be my choice of the two options... if it were an option. I just see the SE cases holding up as well. If you have not seen the T2 cases in person, they are MUCH beefier. No if, and's or buts about it. Not to mention at the level of power these motors are putting out, (even the T124 with anything more than stock compression or having the heads worked over) a belt for the final drive is not even an option if you want to twist the grip on these or launch one with a hot sticky tire with 12 PSI of air in it at 4000 RPM's. The new motor, especially with the narrow belt of the later model wide tire bikes... a belt drive really isn't even an option IMO unless you drive it the same way you drive a stock bike and if thats the case, why even buy one of these motors? Would it be to post the biggest dyno sheet? Maybe have the dyno sheet blown up and laminated or even framed?

[FlaHeatWave]

Well, you said my statement was "not true" which in my mind would be a nicer way of saying that I am lying or ignorant of what is and isnt available from S&S. In conversation with both, my S&S rep and the sales line at S&S and (Jen) there are no more FL T124's available with SE cases. That's what the parts numbers in the S&S system show and that also what my S&S rep told me. Jen, one of the sales people at the S&S facility even double checked with higher ups before telling me what I've understood to be the facts from 3 different S&S employees. As an S&S dealer and currently having prices cheaper than anyone in the industry on S&S parts, I would think they would be telling me correct information regarding their products and availability. But, maybe you're more connected than I am.

I have the SE cases in my personal 2012 RGC. IMO and in my experience in installing these motors using both types of cases, I can understand wanting to keep the internal oil lines. However, if you do plan to bump compression up, especially on the newer engine, I would prefer the S&S cases. They are MUCH beefier and I am currently uploading a series of 4 videos to YouTube of drilling. tapping and installing the external line kit. After trimming the lines and installing everything nicely, I think the external oil line concerns are being taken from a mountain into a molehill. We considered doing braided stainless lines for the one we just finished that will be featured in the magazine but in the end because they are out of sight and after trimming and securing the lines correctly, the customer felt there was no need for braided stainless lines and I didnt disagree. If a customer wanted braided stainless, Id be more than happy to install them instead of the S&S external oil line kit. We will also be posting a lot of pictures and the videos on our shop Facebook page very soon. So far, the 4 part video series of drilling and tapping the oil line kit provided by S&S has parts 2 and 4 uploaded to YouTube. Parts 1 and 3 will be up shortly.

As another poster mentioned, the likelihood of the oil lines getting caught in the belt, I think the chances are much smaller than say... buying a new 2014 or 2015 HD and finding the crank run-out is less than .003". I dont know if thats a good perspective but its just what popped in my mind as I type this.

As for chain drive, and as from shat Im told the new bigger motor is going to be at in terms of static compression (I am not allowed to discuss that at this point) there is MORE THAN PLENTY of room to increase compression on it and when you starting talking about the kind of power these new motors can put out in stock form, never mind if you put the compression up a couple of 2 whole points of where some motors are on pump gas these days with good tunes in them, I dont think the SE cases would be my choice of the two options... if it were an option. I just see the SE cases holding up as well. If you have not seen the T2 cases in person, they are MUCH beefier. No if, and's or buts about it. Not to mention at the level of power these motors are putting out, (even the T124 with anything more than stock compression or having the heads worked over) a belt for the final drive is not even an option if you want to twist the grip on these or launch one with a hot sticky tire with 12 PSI of air in it at 4000 RPM's. The new motor, especially with the narrow belt of the later model wide tire bikes... a belt drive really isn't even an option IMO unless you drive it the same way you drive a stock bike and if thats the case, why even buy one of these motors? Would it be to post the biggest dyno sheet? Maybe have the dyno sheet blown up and laminated or even framed?

Maybe my friend with the Skunk got one of the last 124s available with the SE Cases? I don't know? I for one, would never go from a belt to a chain on any of my bikes, especially the 2 that I Tour on. 'Just not into that much performance anymore, with age, my riding enjoyment has evolved over the years... (I do have fond memories of the Built GPz 1100 though, ~ it was the king of its day )

As Posted at the beginning of this Thread, longevity in a "Sport Touring" Drivetrain was the primary focus.  I'm sure that there are others with similar goals, not caring about dyno#s, launching at stoplights, or drag racing when we are on the other side of the Continent from our Homes... With all of the drama that I have had out of the 110, the 124 Crate looks to fit that bill in stock form, with a bit more than the MoCo offerings... 'Heck, I'm still milking the stock clutch (SE Spring), the A/C Backing plate is not bored out to the 58mm TB, the rev-limit is still at 5400 and I am happy as a clam. 'Hopefully I will make it to Oasis on the way to Maggie Valley to have the backing plate bored, fittings installed for a catch can, and the rev-limiter extended.   

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Maybe my friend with the Skunk got one of the last 124s available with the SE Cases? I don't know? I for one, would never go from a belt to a chain on any of my bikes, especially the 2 that I Tour on. 'Just not into that much performance anymore, with age, my riding enjoyment has evolved over the years... (I do have fond memories of the Built GPz 1100 though, ~ it was the king of its day )

As Posted at the beginning of this Thread, longevity in a "Sport Touring" Drivetrain was the primary focus.  I'm sure that there are others with similar goals, not caring about dyno#s, launching at stoplights, or drag racing when we are on the other side of the Continent from our Homes... With all of the drama that I have had out of the 110, the 124 Crate looks to fit that bill in stock form, with a bit more than the MoCo offerings... 'Heck, I'm still milking the stock clutch (SE Spring), the A/C Backing plate is not bored out to the 58mm TB, the rev-limit is still at 5400 and I am happy as a clam. 'Hopefully I will make it to Oasis on the way to Maggie Valley to have the backing plate bored, fittings installed for a catch can, and the rev-limiter extended.

Flaheatwave,

They are still available and if you were to order one today they will ship it on 9/30 per S&S.   It is available in HC and LC models and in both Twin Cam A and B motors.

[FlaHeatWave]

Flaheatwave,

They are still available and if you were to order one today they will ship it on 9/30 per S&S.   It is available in HC and LC models and in both Twin Cam A and B motors.

'Appreciate the info, but I'm going to (try to) wear out the 117 first as it only has < 7k on it so far

Very happy with the 117! The T-Man 625s & CVO Street Performer Heads are spot-on for me, The Revolution Performance Cylinders are not using any oil between changes (changing around 3k after break-in), the motor is quiet (cold start or hot run), the PC-V/Auto is doing its job ~ starting / running fine everywhere, delivering 35-37MPG around town or "Thumping The Pines", and 40MPG 2-up/Loaded at 80++ on the Slab. I just have to put some finishing touches on the package;

Install the Big Sky Fans

Install the Ward's 160* Thermostat

Machine the Ventilator Backing Plate to match the SE 58mm TB and Vent the Breathers to Ground/Catch Can

Inspect the Primary Chain Tension(r) and if it's tight, Install the Baker Attitude Adjuster, if it's not, keep running the OE for awhile?

Get the Cruise Control to work in lower gears than 7th (DD7)

'Pretty sure the '09 has the Original Battery, so it's probably time for a new one

Any suggestions??? 

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I don't see mention of the lifters, or tapered or stronger pushrods.   Have you considred the air cleaner change?    While the ventilator is nice it doesn't breath as well as some other choices.      I used the agitator air cleaner blk/chrome with the chrome back plate they use the same air filter so its just getting the larger 58mm backing plate.   I believe Stu has also done this. 

[FlaHeatWave]

I don't see mention of the lifters, or tapered or stronger pushrods.   Have you considred the air cleaner change?    While the ventilator is nice it doesn't breath as well as some other choices.      I used the agitator air cleaner blk/chrome with the chrome back plate they use the same air filter so its just getting the larger 58mm backing plate.   I believe Stu has also done this.

The S&S Premium Lifters and SE Adjustable Push Rods were installed during the Build.

'Just like the way the Ventilator looks and already have a K&N in it. The Ventilator has a 58mm backing Plate available for it (around $70-$80). I'm hoping that the machine work will be on a "buddy deal" and we're going to drill and tap for the Breather Vents, so I'm probably going to stick with it for awhile (drat! you have me thinking about an Agitator now...)

Thanks for the positive input!