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[BostonboyDH]

       
       

David H.

[Unbalanced]

Morning Update; 25,000 mi. on the Build; only about 1,000 mi. since last Update...

'Know it's been a while, still chasing termites (off & on), and putting miles on the  when I get a chance to ride...

'Got to admit I've been getting a little "drop-in envy" as of late with the new Harley 117 Cylinder Kit, but I'm not losing any sleep over it as "We felt we were using the best Components available at the time" it's good (for us consumers) to see technological advances being made

The whole bike is still running Great as previously posted! The Revolution Performance Nikasils / T-Man CVO Street Performer Heads not using any oil between 4-5k oil changes... still small weeping at the base gaskets

Speaking of oil changes... From the outset, Sam (final assembly) recommended 3k for oil changes, I figured that since the bike was running cool (220s on the HD led dipstick ~ which has crapped out for the 2nd time by the way), low CHTs on the dyno, no short hops, oil still has some clarity at 4+k, that I could get away with 4-5k intervals... Well after running the Build for 25k now, I've decided to shorten the intervals to 3-3.5k now... 'Have used Syn3 (Dealer), Mobil1 V-Twin (me) and Redline 20-60 V-Twin (Oasis) and I've noticed that around 4k the motor seems to be getting louder, change the oil and it quiets right down (to me ) until about 4k mi... Not very scientific, I know, but going to shorten the intervals anyway...

Venting Breathers to the ground; ended up with 2) 1/4" fuel line hoses, great mod, wish I'd done it sooner, still haven't got around to mounting the Mini Jaz Catch Can, (my old fat butt is wanting to put the bike on a lift to fit it up properly). Went to change the Formula+ in the Primary yesterday, so we did a short 5-6 mi. hop to get up to operating temp, letting the bike idle back in the garage, I just noticed 1-2 drops of crystal clear fluid when I was under the bike

The Clutch; As previously posted, about 5k mi. ago we installed the AIM VPC-95, Alto Carbonite 095750NC Clutch Plates,  the SE HD Spring went back in, and 45 oz of HD Formula+ (dry Primary). As previously, the Clutch has been a perfect "motor cop would love it, absolutely no slip Clutch" but (there's always gotta be a "but" ) for the evasive neutral. In Reply #223, I was ponderin' some different scenarios to get neutral back to where it should be, try this, try that, Alto sent me a new set of Plates, to try (due to possible production issues), haven't got around to that either . I was getting kind of used to the evasive neutral  , but I figured I would change out the Formula+ before riding to Daytona this week... So up to operating temp, drained the "black as sin" Primary Oil, (Carbonite Plates?), just minute fuzz on the drain plug magnet, not enough to cover the magnet halfway,  not really fuzz, more of a paste when rubbing between my fingers . Instead of going back with the Factory recommended 38oz (wet Primary), figured I'd just drop in a QT of Formula+ and give it a go...

I'm amazed! NEUTRAL IS BACK to where it should be, rolling / stopped, 1st or 2nd!! 'Can actually feel the detent in the DD7 again. Less clunk going into 1st (when not holding the lever in 30 seconds or so)   

No witness marks on the Primary or Derby Cover from the AIM VP-95...

So with neutral not playing hide 'n seek anymore, I feel this is an ideal / no PMS combination for the CVO juice Clutch Time will tell...

Will continue to keep an ear on the <14 Compensator, to see if the 6OZ less fluid causes any accelerated issues, but (I like this one ) at 25k mi. I'm already way ahead of the game here... 

I expect this set-up will get "thoroughly tested" riding down with Major Tom, trying to keep up with some of The Hillbilly Rocket Riders and 2 of my Skunk Buds, 1 w/ S&S 124, and the other w/120ST around BikeWeek
     

FlaHeatWave,

Since you have a new clutch pack you may consider going away from the SE pressure plate to the aim 380 or 400, I went with the 400 and the Barnett kevlar clutch pack and the same vpc 92t you have (you have the Altos very similiar).     Cost is only like 60 bucks for the plate and it is slightly more pressure than the SE as far as pulling in the clutch, but overall seems much better.

[FlaHeatWave]

FlaHeatWave,

Since you have a new clutch pack you may consider going away from the SE pressure plate to the aim 380 or 400, I went with the 400 and the Barnett kevlar clutch pack and the same vpc 92t you have (you have the Altos very similiar).     Cost is only like 60 bucks for the plate and it is slightly more pressure than the SE as far as pulling in the clutch, but overall seems much better.

This things got plenty of clutch in it as it sets, in fact, I'm thinking about taking some clutch out of it...That's why I asked you if you might have a stock spring laying around. Not so much for lever effort, just maybe some preventive measures for wear & tear on the other components, mostly thinking of less pressure  on  the hydraulics

Heck, it's only a 10 minute deal, then I get to go on another test ride

[Unbalanced]

I will take a look for a stock one for ya.   I think i have 1 or 3 lying around just gotta remember where i put em

[Unbalanced]

Ed,

I found one of the stock springs.   You and Major Tom ride safe coming down to Ocala/Daytona.

[FlaHeatWave]

Ed,

I found one of the stock springs.   You and Major Tom ride safe coming down to Ocala/Daytona.

Great! figgured you might have some
MT should be rolling in anytime now...
See y'all either tomorrow  PM or Thursday 

[FlaHeatWave]

Evening Update; 27,000 mi. on the Build.

'Just got back from enjoying the epic weather of Daytona BikeWeek, visiting with old friends and meeting some new ones 

Bike ran Great, still not using any oil at all, even trying to keep Harry, Michelle, Pete & John in sight

Fuel mileage was a consistent 37+ MPG every tank for the entire trip, which surprisingly, seems to be 3-4 MPG better than Major Tom's, Tuned / Piped '15 FLTRUSE (on the way down to DBW).

While at BW, I took the opportunity to use my Skunk Bud's (see "onramp shenanigans" in post #228) lift in St Augustine to do a few things;

Swap out the Head Unit to another HK modded by Iron Cross Audio w/ F&R PreAmp Outs, Bluetooth & Rear Aux Port. The HU that I removed is an ICA modded HK with the same mods, worked fine, but (always another BUT ) the backlight was starting to flicker and it was one of the first ICA internal Bluetooth mods, speaking with Tony at ICA, was told "We have a new, improved Bluetooth, send yours in and I will upgrade yours, no charge." Can't beat that and I will have a spare if/when the Sound Design craps out in the  .

A couple more "while we're in there's" (you folks don't know anything about those, do 'ya?);

Take advantage of J&M Audio's Rokker XX upgrade program (swap out Rokkers / XTs to the XXs for $100/pair) the Rokkers / XTs in the Fairing / Vented Lowers, along with the Fairing mounted Rokker 500x4 Amp still sounding great as the day installed (Sturgis '13, 37k mi. ago) so I just figured that I would get a matched set of the "latest and greatest"...

Install the Dakota Digital Oil Temperature Gauge in the stock Air Temp location. I had installed the DD Sending Unit at the last oil change.

Well my first foray R&Ring the RG Fairing / gas tank turned out to be anti- climatic (I'd seen the folks at J&M and my Tech Sam fight the Fairing on 2 different occasions ) so armed with a couple of tips from my Skunk Bud and his Snap-On Tools I jumped in . of course removing the Fairing is a piece of cake, a 1/2 inch wrench, a T-25 and a folded towel to protect the front fender.

The ICA / HK paired / connected much quicker with my Android phone than the first gen unit it replaced. Also the new Bluetooth module has greater range from the bike, allowing the phone to be used more as a remote when "blowing up the parking lot" ...

The Rokker XXs were plug n play, a slight adjustment to the Gains, a little more bass. the J&M crew at Destination Daytona was very helpful, only requiring a core deposit since I was doing the work myself, the deposit was promptly refunded when the cores were returned...

The Dakota Digital Oil Temperature Gauge was plug n play, easy to set up, surprisingly accurate / sensitive. When I first powered up the Gauge it read 69* ambient temp, then after about 30 minutes of looming up the wires, the sun crept into the garage, on my final check before installing the Fairing, the gauge read 71*... Since the first gen ICA Bluetooth required / came with, a powered 12v switch to alternate between Bluetooth / Rear Aux (the new ICA Bluetooth switches automatically) I connected the switch (mounted in the left glove box) to the dimming function of the DD Gauge, works pimp, easy to read in bright sunlight, a great match to the red CVO Gauges at night. Due to the accuracy / ease of install / initial quality of the DD Oil Temp Gauge, I have ordered the DD Oil pressure Gauge...
Since I previously witnessed the "Pros" difficulty with installing the Shark Fairing, I gave it some thought (mustered up some courage ) before I attempted it by myself (Skunk Bud was at work), I noticed indentions in the J&M "Sound Foam" that was glued to the Outer Fairing, so I cut out the indentions with a razor knife, and 5 min. later my first RG Fairing install was complete . One key tip that SB gave me was to have the bike upright (lift or jack).

As Posted previously, I wanted the DD Oil Temp Gauge for data correlation of Oil Temps / Running Conditions... More on that later,

Peace Out, 'Gotta Ride   



 





   

[Yellow09SERG]

Evening Update; 27,000 mi. on the Build.

'Just got back from enjoying the epic weather of Daytona BikeWeek, visiting with old friends and meeting some new ones 

Bike ran Great, still not using any oil at all, even trying to keep Harry, Michelle, Pete & John in sight

Fuel mileage was a consistent 37+ MPG every tank for the entire trip, which surprisingly, was 3-4 MPG better than Major Tom's, Tuned / Piped '15 FLTRUSE (on the way down to DBW).

While at BW, I took the opportunity to use my Skunk Bud's (see "onramp shenanigans" in post #228) lift in St Augustine to do a few things;

Swap out the Head Unit to another HK modded by Iron Cross Audio w/ F&R PreAmp Outs, Bluetooth & Rear Aux Port. The HU that I removed is an ICA modded HK with the same mods, worked fine, but (always another BUT ) the backlight was starting to flicker and it was one of the first ICA internal Bluetooth mods, speaking with Tony at ICA, was told "We have a new, improved Bluetooth, send yours in and I will upgrade yours, no charge." Can't beat that and I will have a spare if/when the Sound Design craps out in the  .

A couple more "while we're in there's" (you folks don't know anything about those, do 'ya?);

Take advantage of J&M Audio's Rokker XX upgrade (swap out Rokkers / XTs to the XXs for $100/pair) the Rokkers / XTs in the Fairing / Vented Lowers, along with the Fairing mounted Rokker 500x4 Amp still sounding great as the day installed (Sturgis '13, 37k mi. ago) so I just figured that I would get a matched set of the "latest and greatest"...

Install the Dakota Digital Oil Temperature Gauge in the Air Temp location. I had installed the DD Sending Unit at the last oil change.

To be continued... 





 

Sure glad all is working well for you Ed. Sounds like the 117 is doing what you hoped it would do. I am just now getting around to getting started on the 113 you originally started to build. Heads are at Sachs now so once they get back I should be close to tearing it down.
David

[FlaHeatWave]

Sure glad all is working well for you Ed. Sounds like the 117 is doing what you hoped it would do. I am just now getting around to getting started on the 113 you originally started to build. Heads are at Sachs now so once they get back I should be close to tearing it down.
David

David, it's good to hear that you are finally pulling the trigger, I'm sure that with all your patience and research, your Build will be one of the best out there as you know, I think that the 113 is one of the best combinations out there, all things considered. It would be an asset to this Thread for you to share your component selection and how it turns out.

Yea, John Sachs is 'da Man! It was a true pleasure to meet, get to know, and ride with him. He knows his stuff, takes pride in his craft, no nonsense, and a credit to this Industry. I have to thank Unbalanced for the introduction.

[Yellow09SERG]

John is a rare breed that is for sure! A phone call to him for anything is an education and you can help but to like the man. I had a several builders send me to him for heads, and as you as they all said "He's the man". I also got had a real long phone call with Unbalanced the other night and really enjoyed the chat with him.

Hope the Florida weather holds up for you and you can continue to crank the miles on that motor

[FlaHeatWave]

Last Update continued... enough about the rest of the bike, let's get back to the drivetrain...

Some observations (after about 1k miles) with the Dakota Digital Oil Temp Gauge;
roughly 60*-75+* ambient temps, with "The Ball & Chain" aboard...

'Intended to go in more detail below, but (another but ) since the bike presently does not have the ability to monitor CHTs and AFRs in real time, 'will just post some "general" observations for now... My ultimate goal with this exercise will be to attempt to correlate how (much) Running Conditions, Airflow (bike speed), AFRs, CHTs, Throttle Position, Oil Pressure, Gear Selection, RPM etc... affect Oil Temps / CHTs in the real world... Basically how much adjusting AFRs will be practical before too much diminishing returns are incurred... Also what are / how to expand, the real world "sweet spots" for operating / Tuning this "Sport Touring" HD. To correlate what the Dyno Operators are seeing vs the real world... 

Oil Temp fluctuates much more than expected (guess I'm more used to the Gauges on liquid cooled auto engines), figured that once Cylinder Head Temps got up there that the Oil Temp would be more stable, definitely not the case... (stock CVO Oil Cooler, Mobil1 VT, HD or K&N filter) 

Oil Temp takes around 8-10 miles (easy riding) to reach 200*.

Cruising in the middle gears 2600- 3200, 40-65 MPH, OTs 210*to low to mid 220*s, increase Throttle Positions to around 40 - 60% and OTs relatively stable at 230* or so...

Cruised into a monsoon (on the way back from DBW, on HWY 27 between High Springs and Perry) at about 50-60 MPH in one of the middle gears around 2500-2800, OT immediately dropped to 171* and stayed there... A sweet spot for the bike, not so much for us...

Cruising in top gear around 2750 / 70 MPH seeing Oil Temps around 240*-243*, roll on up to 3300 / 90 MPH, Oil Temp drops quickly to around 218*-221* and stays pretty consistent on up past the Ton. (The way this bike is set-up it has always impressed me that it only takes about 25% +- TP to maintain these speeds ) With the Airflow and the Oasis "Safe Tune" 90MPH is a sweet spot.

Pull up to a stop light idling (even after running at speed), OT immediately drops to 204* and stays there until the light changes...

In the little 1st gear stop n go traffic encountered, OT from the low 230*s to a high of 251* mostly 230*s to low 240*s, while in any motion, when stopped and idling, drops immediately to 204*, jumps back up as soon as the clutch is engaged...

Yesterday I did notice a spike in OTs of 261*-263* when cruising in the beach traffic for 1/4 mi or so, never coming to a complete stop or operating in the clutch friction zone, just putting in 1st & 2nd, gears, Throttle Positions <20%, 2000-2700RPM as soon as got to a sustained 3rd gear 2500RPM, the OTs went a stable 230* or so... IMO this might be rectified if AFR could be adjusted by Gear?

Stay Tuned for another "Update of the Update" 

 



 


   

[FlaHeatWave]

Another Update to the Update, Backtrack to Daytona Bikeweek...

When leaving his home one evening I asked Unbalanced to listen to the bike when I fired it up, with this bike, some noises come and go with no real rhyme or reason  the majority of the time this bike is the quietest TC Drivetrain in existence, just trying to take advantage of a much more knowledgeable set of ears than mine, luck was with me as John Sachs and Scott Hakins of S&S were in attendance After sitting for 4-5 hours, the bike fired up instantly, one of the 5k mi. S&S Premuim Lifters rattled 3x before it pumped up...shut it down and restarted a couple of times, maybe 2 ticks, rest of the bike is quiet... Unbalanced, John and I agreed that it sounded like one of the rear Lifters, hard to isolate when it only ticks 2-3 times...  'Rode back 50 mi. for the night, next morning fired right up, no tick, no noise at all (other than the Throttle Body "flap")...  So I wasn't really concerned much... A day or so later I got a message from Scott to stop by and see him at Destination Daytona... We spoke awhile about the 117, Oils, Temps, Components etc... to pick his brain about possibly changing things up?? Scott was fine with everything... Then fired up the bike,,, flawless, you know the kind of quiet and proper manners exhibited when one was summoned to the Principal's Office   Even though the drivetrain was quiet as a tomb, Scott tells me  "I heard that Lifter the other evening and I'll send you a couple, just send me your address"... Can't beat that

On the way out from Bikeweek, I stopped by my Skunk Bud's and changed the M1 Engine Oil & Filter & the RedLine in the DD7 to Royal Purple Gear Oil (what SB had on hand), a little more than 3k on the Engine, > than 8k on the Trans,  neither drain plug magnet had one speck of anything on it, nada, zip, nuttin'...

 

[FlaHeatWave]

Evening Update; 30k on the Build, 50k on the Bike.

Before "Dragging The Ball & Chain" on the "Eureka Springs Fact Finding Mission" in May, I had Sam (Final Assembly) give the Bike a good once over and change out the rear Glide Pro Bushings, both sides were totally trashed < 20k. Since Glide Pro had warrantied and sent me their "updated" Bushings, i figured i would give the Glide Pro one last try. I really like the ride / handling of the GP when they are good, but if i have another early failure, I'm done, and going back to OE... The front "updated" GP are fine at 25k, so maybe there's hope ...

Sam did mention that the S&S Lifter rattle was in the rear, and "everything is good, you know the rear tire is scalloping"... Since the Bike was toward 50k of 2-up loaded Sport Touring, i asked Sam to pay particular attention to the Wheel Bearings and the Drive Belt, "I see no reason to change anything out at this time" So the next day I changed the Oil, Mobil1, the Formula+ in the Primary, and off we went...

Bike ran great no issues except starter grinding 5-6 times in / around Eureka Springs, figured that with almost 30k on the <'14 Compensator (the one before the tray) it's about time, planned on changing it out when i got back, but on the 1k return trip (visiting friends in TN) the starter did not grind 1 time! Didn't sneeze a lick!  Reminds me of the Biktoberfest when the Bike sneezed a few times, then only did it a couple of times in 10k, go figure 'Have always thought that when the Comp is going out that it would grind on a more regular basis?? Anybody got any ideas?? The Comp has always been quiet at idle and shutdown...

Almost thinking that climatic conditions, changes / engine management might have something to do with the grinding, sneezing??? Anybody got any ideas???

The S&S Lifter rattles on startup once in a while, becoming a little more prevalent, some days it doesn't make a sound...

Oil Temp was a high of 249, going through Birmingham with ambient of 95+, mostly in the 230s either running the back roads or on the slab at 85mph...

Oil Pressure a low of 14-15psi heat soaked idle, cruising a steady 50 psi...

Including the Daytona trip, Eureka Springs trip, and some local "Thumpin' the Pines", fuel mileage over the last 6k or so has been a super consistent 38.7 MPG.

Oil Consumption; seemed like it used 1-1/2 "Xs" on the dipstick since the oil change 2,300 miles ago, I'll have to keep a closer eye on it

A slight bit of oscillation in some hi-speed, hi-load (90+) sweepers when playing in TN, nothing tricky, but i noticed it... 'Could be the HD Premium Shocks with 45k "easy miles" on them??? or more likely, the pitifully scalloped rear Dunlop . When "The Ball & Chain" was washing the Bike this morning i noticed a slight weeping around the adjustment knob of the HD Premuims... 'Not spending any $ on shocks before baby gets some new shoes, hoping for the Michelin CIIs to become available  , in all conditions south of the hi-load sweepers, the bike still maintains excellent manners... 

A Happy & Safe 4th to All




 

[FlaHeatWave]

Afternoon Update, no miles since last Post... Ridin' The

Since there is 30,000 miles on the Build, I figured that I would play with the $50. USB Borescope and new Snap-On Motorcycle Compression Gauge Set...

The 10k mi. Champion RA8HC Plugs looked ok, the front was a little darker than the rear...

The Pistons have a good bit less carbon buildup then the last time I broke out the Scope, the only thing I regret about venting the Breathers to ground, is that I didn't do it sooner   Cylinders are good, the cross hatch is still well defined, no scoring or smudges of any kind, Valves good, no signs of leakage... The cheapie china Borescope is trick, found a USB to MiniUSB adapter for about $15. and a free APP for the Android phone, so I don't have to use the laptop anymore, works very well, easy to take pics / videos...

A little crud in the Intake, since I vented to ground, guess I'll have to get in the habit of oiling the K&N Filter again The Intake Valves / Guides looked good no carbon buildup...

Now for the first use of the Snap-On Compression Gauge, hooked up the (modified- cut off one of the clamps, replaced with a female Spade Connector) remote start button to the Solenoid trigger (green lead) and the Starter +Lead, key off, Throttle Plate propped open... 5-6 compression strokes the gauge stopped moving... and...

238psi CCP on both Cylinders... Can't be right ain't no way a 10.4 Static is pumping like that with a 41* Intake Close??? Gotta try another gauge...

Anybody got any idea what the CCP should be???

Threw in a new set of plugs gapped at 0.40, started instantly, went for a ride, seemed crisper, all the hot restarts also instant... For less than $5. going to throw in new plugs every 2nd -3rd Oil Change...   

[Unbalanced]

Ed,

How many CC's are the head, which head-gasket did you use, what are the CC's of the pistons?   How far in the hole are your pistons?   Did you change cranks when you did the build or still 4 3/8?

Here is a sample  considering 89cc chambers, 8 cc piston dome volume, .030 HG, 0 deck, TMan 625 and the 237 compression.