Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

        I had to go out and look in the garage ! I thought maybe you or the op stole my bike. I've got a 2012 Ultra Limited, does everything you guys describe, including top end noise at 2500 rpm. And does run quieter with conventional oil as compared to synthetic. Been doing it since about 10 K.  Two different HD techs Said: normal ride it and I have. Ear plug and radio. Other than the ticking it runs great.
                 Jonnierock

Better lifter hydrology with the conventional oil apparently, vs the water-thin Syn III(?).
Scott

[snowrider13]

I have been looking for an answer to this also. Facts are always good in my book. Is this extra pre-load to imitate HTL lifters? Does it quiet valve noise? I have tried it no differences that I can see or hear.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

To add to my previous comment, a client from Rouses Point, NY, (top of Lake Champlain area)was in conversation with us yesterday, saying that he decided to switch over to Mobil 1, after using conventional 20W50 motorcycle oil for some time. This man is an certified/trained General Motors tech of over 25 plus years.
Bike had 0 engine noise(107"/S&S.585's/S&S Premium lifters/55mm HPI/our Stage IV Heads).
None. Hot, cold, no noises.
Drained the warm oil, and poured the Mobil 1 in.
Started the bike and it had valvetrain noise............
Rode the bike for a day or so, same/same.
Switched back to his other oil.........silence.
Only relaying what we were told, nothing else..........
Scott

[r0de_runr]

I understand and have an un-educated but common sense theory.

Conventional oil has a higher cushioning effect.  SYN has a higher heat tolerance.  Our bikes are high volume relatively low pressure, and the syn oil gets out of it's own way quicker than conventional oil.  Different in a viscosity test (flowing at 0 and 100C) than in a motor.

SYN wont burn up, but I dont think it does its job either and that could be helping destroy motors....yes HD would do that.

Any one on here want to chime in about using conventional oil and not have a lifter failure?  VS those who stick with SYN3 or  (GASP AMZOIL).

Just wondering./

[Cat Eye]

What you say is true.

But the compensator bang, loud tapping upon cold start, and sewing machine noise at 2300 rpm is not evident in every bike, and usually indicates a problem.

Our fairings also bounce a lot of that noise up at us.

I know for a fact my top end is nosier on syn oil, and on older oil (3000 miles or so).

In any event, I ride with earplugs due to hearing damage while in the Army, so I hear little of any, and if I can when wearing the plugs then something is REALLY wrong, lol.

New S&S lifters and adj pushrod kit on the way, Eastern PC.

I agree with the older oil statement.....I can tell when it is time to change the oil by increased valve train noise.....generally around 3000 mile(less during the summer and more during the fall)....when this happens I will sometimes add a half bottle of STP oil treatment which reduces the valve train noise until I can get an oil change.  Starting to think about changing the oil every 2500 miles and go to dino oil.....   Do not get 5000 miles out of the sync oil any way.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Oil is rated on thickness ... so here is a  little tid bit of info .

The thickness of moving oil is measured in centiStokes or cS. Most engines want the oil viscosity to be around 10 cS at normal operating temperature. The really thick multi-grade oils have a viscosity of 20 cS at operating temperature. One is not twice as thick as the other, it is only 10 cS thicker.

As we increase the heat from 212°F to 302°F the most commonly recommended oil thins from 10 cS to 3 cS. The thicker oil drops from 20 cS to 4 cS. Note that in a very hot engine the difference between the two oils is now only 1 – 2 cS. In other words they have about the same thickness. There is little advantage to a thicker based oil as a 20W-50 at very high temperatures. No, the 4 cS oil is not twice as thick as the 2 or 3 cS oil. This difference is almost insignificant.


I have read just about every thing I can get my hands on about oil dino vs syn .. No brands but just the basic how it works and why.. Common thinking in fact may be very wrong as the oil gets thicker  at start up is more harmful than at full temp vs being thin.. Another term that I see get swapped  is oil flow rate .. But as temp drops the oil gets thicker and flow rate decrease hugely. SO with guys running thicker and thicker oil the harm may be more from that than what is a common thought..  No taking a stance one way or the other but the auto industry has spent millions to make sure the engines live through the warranty any where they are sold. Hence the thinner and thinner oil that is being used.     Now with a HD you have a basic roller bearing engine compared to a plain bearing engine.  There is very little in the HD engine that is like a car. SO heavy oil for a roller bearing on the crank or rods? 


If you want to spend a day reading visit bob is the oil guy website.   Then look at the warranty on car engines with 100,000 offers. look at the new cars running thin oil yet they last and are not failing left and right form oil thats to thin..

food for thought any ways.

Never too old to learn 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Great google.....

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

   YEP I use it.. great search engine..  stated in the post where to read about it..  But as always if you have any real technical information you can post please feel free.  Myself am not a oil expert . 

For those that do want to know more check out the site some very cool reading and real data.

[deldago]

Bob is the oil guy is a great place to wile away those winter days!

[TorqueInc]

  Seems using google along with possibly ability might work much better than ....because I said so

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Oh.

[HogRydr]

I'm all for trying the easy fixes first, and it sounds like going from synthetic to conventional will help quite down some of the noise. However, I've heard once you start using synthetic oil you cannot use conventional anymore. Is that true or just another false statement?

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

H-D factory service manual has oil viscosity's listed as per ambient air temps.
Switching from syn to conventional, or vise-versa won't harm anything.
Scott

[grc]

I'm all for trying the easy fixes first, and it sounds like going from synthetic to conventional will help quite down some of the noise. However, I've heard once you start using synthetic oil you cannot use conventional anymore. Is that true or just another false statement?

More wive's tales from the last century.  Synthetics are fully compatible with dino oils, as indicated by the oil companies and supported by the fact that many of them sell mixtures (semi-synthetic).

What is more important to you, a slight reduction in ticking noise, or better high temperature protection for the moving parts in a hot running air cooled engine?  In other words, don't let anecdotal "evidence" cause you to do something you might regret.

Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I believe that Red Line offers synthetic in straight grades, of 50, and even 60, again if my memory serves me correctly.
Might be worth it to check it out.
Scott