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[mark]

HD trying to borrow $350 mil.  Not a good sign.

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/harley-davidson-request-survival-loan

[muddypaws]

Does not look good....

[Twolanerider]

The link shown above is (for the moment) dead.  Any other source online showing this news only cited that link (that I can find presently).  Original source may have jumped the gun?  Curious and worth following.

[2smoke]

The link shown above is (for the moment) dead.  Any other source online showing this news only cited that link (that I can find presently).  Original source may have jumped the gun?  Curious and worth following.

Yeah, I can't find the article. Maybe they scrubbed it because it was a leak.

[J.D.]

Didn't Warren Buffet just arrange a large loan to the MoCo?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/amp/news/warren-buffett-loaned-300-million-harley-davidson-2009-financial-crisis-2020-6-1029306090

[iski]

That's an old article about Warren Buffet loaning HD $300 million back in 2009. 

Here's an article from April 2020 saying they plan to secure $1.3 billion from US banks: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motorcycles/harley-davidson-s-turnaround-plan-is-beginning-to-take-shape/ar-BB13osG0

If this $350 million loan story does not involve the 2 above stories, my guess is a $350 million loan (more or less) secured by the federal govt. as part of the recent bailout plans for US companies. 

[mark]

I read the article this morning, so it was taken down before lunch.  Strange.  The article basically said HD wanted to borrow 350 mil and use 100+ mil this year, with the rest held in reserve in case they needed it. 

[Twolanerider]

I read the article this morning, so it was taken down before lunch.  Strange.  The article basically said HD wanted to borrow 350 mil and use 100+ mil this year, with the rest held in reserve in case they needed it.

Those weren't the terms of the Buffet loan so that's not it.  Buffet made a killing.  I think it was $300m and when Harley asked if they could repay it early to save some money Buffet ever so politely said no, he was just fine with the terms as agreed.  If memory serves it was 15% and Buffet eventually made something like $140m on the $300m loan.  That was back in the last big financial crisis (the seem to come once a decade anymore).

[scotman623]

Interesting!!!! They should stick to what they know and expand from there.... Touring bikes.... New frames, lose some weight, New suspension, Maybe water cooling...  I love Harley, I plan to stick with them and hopefully they get it right!!! If not, I just may have to test ride a Challenger...

[FLSTFI Dave]

Very sad to see Harley needs a big loan.  However it is not a surprise at all.  We all know they are in trouble, and have been for a while.

[Texas 103]

Interesting!!!! They should stick to what they know and expand from there.... Touring bikes.... New frames, lose some weight, New suspension, Maybe water cooling...  I love Harley, I plan to stick with them and hopefully they get it right!!! If not, I just may have to test ride a Challenger...

X-2 on the Challenger, Buddy of mine owns an Indian dealership in KS. 

[Ironhorse]

Great,...tax dollars (your and my money) going to support an entity that cannot figure out how to manage themselves. With all the struggles they’ve shown, their borrowing history is pretty sad. Not too sure what US federally backed banks would do that. HD will probably end up asking banks and lenders overseas. China and Russia have been known to lend money to struggling US businesses.

[mark]

Great,...tax dollars (your and my money) going to support an entity that cannot figure out how to manage themselves. With all the struggles they’ve shown, their borrowing history is pretty sad. Not too sure what US federally backed banks would do that. HD will probably end up asking banks and lenders overseas. China and Russia have been known to lend money to struggling US businesses.

I wondered the same, would a bank risk loaning HD $350mil?  If things continue going south and bankruptcy hits, the bank would be SOL.

[2smoke]

I wondered the same, would a bank risk loaning HD $350mil?  If things continue going south and bankruptcy hits, the bank would be SOL.

Maybe it would be a bank that is declared "too big to fail" and the friendly government will bail them out with taxpayer money... again! Harley should look at securing a loan from Keith Wandel. He got millions just to F it all up! C'mon Keith, help them out.?!

[iski]

In late 2015 & from 2016 until now, HD debt to equity ratio has averaged higher than is desirable, and it's higher than it it was when the company had bigger revenue & profits. 

In other words, when they do borrow money, the lender can charge them out the wazoo for interest.

[GregKhougaz]

And so it continues:  Harley-Davidson removed from S&P 500

[2smoke]

And so it continues:  Harley-Davidson removed from S&P 500

A market capitalization of 2.3 billion? WOW! Let it fall and they're ripe for a buy-out. It may be the only thing that saves them.

[Ironhorse]

Here's the crux of the matter:

"Harley has faced a number of challenges in recent years as the core riders who helped grow the company in the 1990s and 2000s begin aging out of the sport, leading to more used motorcycles available with less demand for new ones. There’s also been increased competition, including from Polaris Industries’ relaunched Indian Motorcycle. Increasing tariffs and trade tensions in recent years only added to the challenges and added costs to Harley’s business."

Another victim of the tariffs and trade war.

[iski]

And so it continues:  Harley-Davidson removed from S&P 500

^When the financials get weak & the company is losing it's formerly loyal buyer base by the minute...^

"They all do that."

[Robmay]

^When the financials get weak & the company is losing it's formerly loyal buyer base by the minute...^

"They all do that."

I see what ya did there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FLSTFI Dave]

Here's the crux of the matter:

"Harley has faced a number of challenges in recent years as the core riders who helped grow the company in the 1990s and 2000s begin aging out of the sport, leading to more used motorcycles available with less demand for new ones. There’s also been increased competition, including from Polaris Industries’ relaunched Indian Motorcycle. Increasing tariffs and trade tensions in recent years only added to the challenges and added costs to Harley’s business."

Another victim of the tariffs and trade war.

I agree with everything but the Trade and Tariffs war.  Harley was failing in 15 and 16.  It just kept getting worse and worse.  The also faced more competition from BMW with the Bagger and Honda with the FB6 both aimed at Harley market.  COVID has also done lots of damage.

Biggest damage comes from with in H-D, quality going down hill bad, price going up way to high, and removing standard components.    I've bought 7 CVO since 09.  Each one has had more quality issues than the last.  Worse than that is the 09 CVO Road Glide was 32K in 09 and my 19 CVO Road Glide was 42K with not much new at all for 10K, but inferior quality.

Whose income went up 10K in that time frame? 

I have at least 15 years or more riding.  Doubt I'll by another CVO, may buy another Harley though.  Then again there are lots of choices with better quality, more features and less money.

[Ironhorse]

There are lots of choices with better quality, more features and less money.

Bingo!

I'm looking real hard at the new Honda GoldWing.

[mark]

Bingo!

I'm looking real hard at the new Honda GoldWing.

Can’t blame you.  The Goldwing is reliable, smooth ride, good features, plenty of dealers, and you get a lot for the price.

[J.D.]

Buddy of mine just bought one.  Done with Harley.  Just get on it and ride.  No need to upgrade it right off the showroom floor.  Has already ridden it on several long trips.  Plenty of power stock.  Comfortable and no need to change bars, seat, pegs, etc.  No issues whatsoever.

[Ironhorse]

Buddy of mine just bought one.  Done with Harley.  Just get on it and ride.  No need to upgrade it right off the showroom floor.  Has already ridden it on several long trips.  Plenty of power stock.  Comfortable and no need to change bars, seat, pegs, etc.  No issues whatsoever.

I was looking at one and asked the salesman if adding a trailer hitch voids the warranty. He took me to the service department where two were getting them installed. That did it for me.

[newseultra07]

And they will run circles around a stock HD. And u won't burn up...

[2soaper]

Honda's, BMW, Yamahas all make a great cookie cutter bike for me there is just no character to any of em.....

[Grizimino]

It seems to me that soon people will take loans from banks for food if the economic situation in the world continues to remain as tense. I was lucky that I took out a mortgage a few years ago and managed to pay it off before the pandemic outbreak because Mortgage Broker Liverpool helped me find the most profitable home option and helped me get the minimum mortgage interest rate from the bank. Now I have my own house and a stable job, and I can not worry about my family's future. But the situation in the world still worries me very much.

[Twolanerider]

It seems to me that soon people will take loans from banks for food if the economic situation in the world continues to remain as tense.

Welcome to the site Grizimino!     

[Finster101]

Size of the wings makes me think of a 76 Coupe DeVille.   

[ultra13]

Just read that Harley is having a great year...

[FLSTFI Dave]

Just read that Harley is having a great year...

Harley just shut its main plant due to supply chain issues for at least two weeks.  How's that great for Harley, oops I forgot they added a sur charge to all new bikes of 500 to 1000 dollars, that sure helps the bottom Line.  Bet being out of work for two weeks or more is not good for the workers, especially with the inflation.