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[wideslammer]

Here's another question from the fellow is considering the purchase of a 2011 Softail Convertible from a dealer who does not currently have the bike in the store. As a result, he's not entirely sure about a few of the questions I have for him.

As an "old-school" person, I'm wondering about the keyless ignition. Is there still a way to start the bike if the electronics in either the fob or the bike fail to interact as they should?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

[Keats]

I think the answer to that question is, depends on how you have it set up.

I have mine setup that I cannot start the bike without a working FOB  ( or I do not know how to do it)

makes since to me that you cannot override it with either a Key or FOB

Mine will not start even with key and no FOB.

I seldom lock the ignition down

[Midnight Rider]

If I'm not mistaken, the FOB just lets the security system know it's OK to mess with the bike.  If you have the security override set up on the bike (the owners manual tells you how to do this...it is a series of steps using the turn signal switches), you can always get the bike "unlocked", regardless.  You just have to remember the numbers you enter when setting up the override...that's why they provide the cards in the back of the owners manual to write that information on in case you do forget.

[wideslammer]

As I understand it, the key for the 2011 Softail Convertible is only used for the bags and fork lock. I believe the ignition is enabled by the "presence" of the fob within a certain distance of the bike. When you walk away with the fob in your pocket, the ignition is disabled and the alarm is set. When you return, the alarm is turned off and the bike can be started by pressing the starter switch. At least that's what I've been led to understand.

If that's so, I'm wondering if the bike can still be started if the fob and bike don't properly "communicate" with each other. I guess a related question would ask what happens if the fob is lost. Is there a way to get the bike started then?

Thanks in advance for any response,
Ron

[wideslammer]

OK, thanks TCnBham. I was composing my response to Keats when you came back with your message.

[grc]

While on the subject of the truly "keyless" systems, where the ignition is unlocked strictly by radio signal from the fob and you just flip a switch or press a button to start, folks need to be aware of a security issue that has started showing up in the automotive arena.  With the fob in your pocket, you walk away to a store or bar or whatever.  A person stands next to your vehicle with a small electronic device, and his accomplice follows you with his own electronic device.  This device picks up the signal from your fob, retransmits it to the guy standing next to your vehicle, who in turn uses his device to unlock the vehicle and start it.  When you come back to get your vehicle, it is nowhere to be found.

This is the main reason I don't like the buttonless fobs, and really don't like the truly keyless systems.  In the quest for supposed convenience, we are being delivered to the unscrupulous by the folks designing and building our vehicles.

I could suggest going one step further and just adding a retina scanner to the car or bike, but considering the type of people roaming around loose these days I'm afraid they'd just pop out one of your eyeballs and then hold it up to the scanner to steal your ride.  Nothing would surprise me.  Might need to go back to the low tech logging chain and padlock for real security.


Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

While on the subject of the truly "keyless" systems, where the ignition is unlocked strictly by radio signal from the fob and you just flip a switch or press a button to start, folks need to be aware of a security issue that has started showing up in the automotive arena.  With the fob in your pocket, you walk away to a store or bar or whatever.  A person stands next to your vehicle with a small electronic device, and his accomplice follows you with his own electronic device.  This device picks up the signal from your fob, retransmits it to the guy standing next to your vehicle, who in turn uses his device to unlock the vehicle and start it.  When you come back to get your vehicle, it is nowhere to be found.

This is the main reason I don't like the buttonless fobs, and really don't like the truly keyless systems.  In the quest for supposed convenience, we are being delivered to the unscrupulous by the folks designing and building our vehicles.

I could suggest going one step further and just adding a retina scanner to the car or bike, but considering the type of people roaming around loose these days I'm afraid they'd just pop out one of your eyeballs and then hold it up to the scanner to steal your ride.  Nothing would surprise me.  Might need to go back to the low tech logging chain and padlock for real security.


Jerry

   Hadn't heard that one, Jerry.  Nothing surprises me either though.  I don't know if this bike has this feature or not, but my SERGU does:  You can turn the ignition to the fork lock position and lock it when you lock the saddlebags, tourpak, etc with the lock button on the key...no need to insert the key in the ignition.  That may only be available (the key with the lock/unlock feature) on the baggers though, but it is at least one additional layer of "safety", if you can call locking your forks safe...

[grc]

  Hadn't heard that one, Jerry.  Nothing surprises me either though.  I don't know if this bike has this feature or not, but my SERGU does:  You can turn the ignition to the fork lock position and lock it when you lock the saddlebags, tourpak, etc with the lock button on the key...no need to insert the key in the ignition.  That may only be available (the key with the lock/unlock feature) on the baggers though, but it is at least one additional layer of "safety", if you can call locking your forks safe...

The true keyless ignition is just on the Softail this year Terry, but I assume it will spread to the other models in the near future.  And yes, you can still use the key to lock the bags and the forks, but I'd be willing to bet that a ton of folks don't lock their forks, and the odds are that people with the keyless ignition bikes will be even less inclined to do so.  After all, if you were going to have to carry a key with you anyway, why do the whole keyless thing?

So far I haven't heard of thieves targetting bikes with the procedure I mentioned earlier, but there have been reports even on mainstream news programs about the problem with cars.  It will only get worse as more vehicles go to keyless systems.  I seem to remember that someone has already come out with a shielded case to put the fob in, so no one can grab the signal.  Of course, if you have to take the fob out of your pocket and remove it from the shielded case to open and start your car, and then remember to take it out of your pocket and put it back in the case when you leave the car, I don't see where this is more convenient than just pulling out a key or a pushbutton fob.  Just because we can do this stuff with cheap electronics these days doesn't really mean we should do it. 


Jerry

[kraut]

this started to be a mayor concern in - especially eastern - Europe somewhen early last year. Cars only until now as keyless systems still are quite rare on bikes over here. But insurance will not pay - in Germany at least - if the fork is not locked anyway.

[Keats]

this started to be a mayor concern in - especially eastern - Europe somewhen early last year. Cars only until now as keyless systems still are quite rare on bikes over here. But insurance will not pay - in Germany at least - if the fork is not locked anyway.

My biggest question would be..... " How would they know if the fork was not locked" If the bike was stolen?

[kraut]

as many people are honest - or you may call it ignorant - enough just to say so when they are asked about it 

[Midnight Rider]

The true keyless ignition is just on the Softail this year Terry, but I assume it will spread to the other models in the near future.  And yes, you can still use the key to lock the bags and the forks, but I'd be willing to bet that a ton of folks don't lock their forks, and the odds are that people with the keyless ignition bikes will be even less inclined to do so.  After all, if you were going to have to carry a key with you anyway, why do the whole keyless thing?

So far I haven't heard of thieves targetting bikes with the procedure I mentioned earlier, but there have been reports even on mainstream news programs about the problem with cars.  It will only get worse as more vehicles go to keyless systems.  I seem to remember that someone has already come out with a shielded case to put the fob in, so no one can grab the signal.  Of course, if you have to take the fob out of your pocket and remove it from the shielded case to open and start your car, and then remember to take it out of your pocket and put it back in the case when you leave the car, I don't see where this is more convenient than just pulling out a key or a pushbutton fob.  Just because we can do this stuff with cheap electronics these days doesn't really mean we should do it. 


Jerry

Yea, all that would be more trouble than it's worth.  I've just got the fob on the same ring as my pushbutton key, and keep both on my person at all times...when the bike is in the basement, I keep the fob far enough away from the bike so that it won't get the signal.  Two reasons for that...one for theives, and the other is so I won't forget and ride off from the house only to find that I left the fob at home.  My memory is bad enough so that I have to take those extra measures to ensure I don't do something totally stupid. Any I always lock my forks when I leave the bike parked out of my direct line of sight.

[Keats]

as many people are honest - or you may call it ignorant - enough just to say so when they are asked about it 

with the impending loss of 15K - 40K, I wonder how many would hold to their convictions and speak the truth?

I myself might question my memory of the event, or maybe I would just start locking the forks.

[efriday]

I have been driving my FLSTSE2 since 17 February, and I have verified that it starts using the Personal Identification Number (PIN) that the owner can put in whenever needed. Both FOBs were out of range of the keyless system for this test.
In my experience, the range for the FOBs is extreemly short - about two feet. The dealer set off the siren by trying to move the bike when I was standing right next to it with the FOB in my pocket.

To set the PIN, you have to have the FOB with you and you enter the digits using the turn signal switches.
 

[kraut]

that's an other issue: the default for manual disarmament. Many people don't care to change it and dealers appreciate the fact they still can move the bikes easily around after the security system is armed by manually disarming it using the default code.

Interested people may know that too ...

[Lkn4advtr]

It is always good to know by memory how to use the security override process. I have been in a situation in San Diego near a military facility where the key fob wont work. We arrived for lunch, About 25 bikes, all parked in the same lot and when it was time to leave all the FOB bike would not start. It took us about 25min. for everyone to find their code, and figure out how to start their bikes. I also learned the hard way not to store the key too close to the bike at home as I rode to work without my key or fob. At the time I was unfamiliar with the override process so I couldn't restart it to move it to a safe location and I couldn't lock it where it was. A friend always used 1369 because you were an unlucky C--k sucker if you forgot it.