www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Social => Other Topics => Topic started by: Twolanerider on March 10, 2008, 12:42:16 PM
-
The red bike needed a clutch. Barnett advertises one of their Scorpion line as being a direct drop in for the bikes with hydraulic clutches. Not wanting to dink with Rivera's unspecified shortening of the clutch pushrod I decided to give it a try.
Install was direct and obvious. There is almost no documentation with the product. What is there, however, says to briefly pre-soak the clutch disks and that it's ok to use "any oil." In one place the "any" part is even emphasized. That's apparently where the oops comes in.
Buttoned it back up. Rolled it off the lift. Eyeballing everything before the primary went on it looked to have normal operation. Before starting the engine engaging the clutch allowed easier working of the shifter as normal. Not expecting any problems.
Rolling off the lift meant backing out in to the driveway just a bit. Thanks god.
Started the engine with the bike in neutral. Pulled the clutch lever and shifted to first (with the clutch lever still in). And off she goes.
Clutch was not fully disengaged. Engine was stout enough it didn't die and I didn't have a tight enough grip on the front brake to stop it.
Before I have grabbed more front brake and reached for the kill switch (honestly don't know which I got first to kill it) we'd cowboyed forward 10-12 feet Evil Knieveling the ramp to the lift and coming to stop way to damn close to the SERG setting in the other half of the garage. I probably had a potty incident but didn't think to look.
The clutch basket is/was stuck together. Talked to Barnett this morning. Barely started to describe what it was doing and the tech rep interrupted to ask "pre-soak the disks in synthetic?"
Did. In Mobil 1.
They don't have to be pre-soaked. And they've learned their clutch materials don't like synthetic oils. Nice documentation almost cost me a major screw up in the garage.
After that I took the SERG for a ride to clear my head.
Probably tomorrow will run the red bike long enough to get the fluid warm and then try to pop the clutch a bit to get the disks unstuck from each other. If that doesn't work will take the outer primary back off, wipe all the disks back down and use their (now) recommended "good type F ATF." That is what makes their disks happiest.
So, if anyone ever does a Barnett clutch please learn from my short but wild ride.
-
The red bike needed a clutch. Barnett advertises one of their Scorpion line as being a direct drop in for the bikes with hydraulic clutches. Not wanting to dink with Rivera's unspecified shortening of the clutch pushrod I decided to give it a try.
Install was direct and obvious. There is almost no documentation with the product. What is there, however, says to briefly pre-soak the clutch disks and that it's ok to use "any oil." In one place the "any" part is even emphasized. That's apparently where the oops comes in.
Buttoned it back up. Rolled it off the lift. Eyeballing everything before the primary went on it looked to have normal operation. Before starting the engine engaging the clutch allowed easier working of the shifter as normal. Not expecting any problems.
Rolling off the lift meant backing out in to the driveway just a bit. Thanks god.
Started the engine with the bike in neutral. Pulled the clutch lever and shifted to first (with the clutch lever still in). And off she goes.
Clutch was not fully disengaged. Engine was stout enough it didn't die and I didn't have a tight enough grip on the front brake to stop it.
Before I have grabbed more front brake and reached for the kill switch (honestly don't know which I got first to kill it) we'd cowboyed forward 10-12 feet Evil Knieveling the ramp to the lift and coming to stop way to damn close to the SERG setting in the other half of the garage. I probably had a potty incident but didn't think to look.
The clutch basket is/was stuck together. Talked to Barnett this morning. Barely started to describe what it was doing and the tech rep interrupted to ask "pre-soak the disks in synthetic?"
Did. In Mobil 1.
They don't have to be pre-soaked. And they've learned their clutch materials don't like synthetic oils. Nice documentation almost cost me a major screw up in the garage.
After that I took the SERG for a ride to clear my head.
Probably tomorrow will run the red bike long enough to get the fluid warm and then try to pop the clutch a bit to get the disks unstuck from each other. If that doesn't work will take the outer primary back off, wipe all the disks back down and use their (now) recommended "good type F ATF." That is what makes their disks happiest.
So, if anyone ever does a Barnett clutch please learn from my short but wild ride.
ah yes.... process learning!!!!
im glad that you didnt have an accident ( except in your jockies!)
-
Don,
You just keep having more and more fun with that cherry... :zwtf:
-
Glad the bike is safe, well you too. Who would have figured?
Barnett evidently needs someone that can run a computer to reprint the directions.
No more Mob 1 in all three holes evidently.
Thanks for once again being the guinea pig Don :2vrolijk_21:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOdNzUt9o8
-
Don,
You just keep having more and more fun with that cherry... :zwtf:
Ernie
But notice he now has a backup that is always sitting there waiting.
D/C---> pm that address
-
I hate when I do stuff like that...or loose....misplace,er...loose things
-
Glad you and the bikes are ok.. You read the directions and know what you are doing and barely escaped disaster. Can't believe these companies are this incompetent. :soapbox:
-
Ernie
But notice he now has a backup that is always sitting there waiting.
D/C---> pm that address
That's why some of us have multiple machines...
-
That's why some of us have multiple machines...
That's right Ernie, maybe Scot could learn from Don's experience :huepfenlol2:
-
Don,
You just keep having more and more fun with that cherry... :zwtf:
Ernie, came too close to popping the cherry that time. In the end no harm and no foul though. It's just a bit of a surprise when you drop it in first while holding the clutch in and the bike decides to take off.
Worst part was I knew there was only about a bike's width between the lift and the SERG and it was not straight in front of me. So while trying to kill it was also trying to point it. Manged to get both done at about the same time. It's just a good thing I'd done laundry the day before.
-
Glad you and the bikes are ok.. You read the directions and know what you are doing and barely escaped disaster. Can't believe these companies are this incompetent. :soapbox:
The tech rep this morning even mentioned that they really needed to reprint those directions. It's apparently not something that happens everytime. But it sure as hell happens often enough that he knew what I was going to ask before I'd even gotten to the point in the description of saying that the clutch wasn't disengaged. So they've been there and done that before.
-
Who would have figured?
That was just it Rog. We try to consider all the possibilities. Be as prepared as we can. Scan traffic. Scan loads on vehicles in front of us or that we're passing. Etc etc etc. Still, you just can't think of everything every time.
-
Well chit, you don't think about traffic and obstacles in your garage, especially when you're holding the clutch! I'm just glad that there was no damage!
-
Now that all's well that ends well, I hope you don't mind hearing that I had to chuckle at the visual of you performing the Evel Knievel/cowboy walk with a warm trickle going down your leg...
That being said, it sure seems much more common than not to question anything and everything these days. No longer can you rely on suppliers of ANYTHING to be competent, correct and complete.
Here is an example of incompetence that entered my world today...
When I purchased my Bushtec trailer last fall, I applied for the state required license plate. The application asked the question of whether you preferred the full size or motorcycle size plate. I chose the motorcycle size plate. Of course, the state sent the full size plate. I filled out the appropriate paperwork and returned it (along with the full size plate) - and the state replaced it with the motorcycle size plate. In today's mail, I received the renewal for the plate - or should I say plates. The state sent me a renewal statement (and bill) for both the full size and the motorcycle size plate. So, I called our state's customer friendly DMV. Of course, there is a form I can fill out to cancel the renewal of the full size plate - but they also would like me to return my full size plate (that I no longer have - because last fall I had to return the full size plate before they would send the smaller size plate....). Bureaucracy then ensued - catch 22 at its best.
Long story short, I told the nice lady that I would send in the renewal for the motorcycle size plate - and throw the renewal for the full size plate in the trash. And if they could not figure out how to correct their multitude of errors prior to next years renewal, I would again send in the renewal for the motorcycle size plate and throw the full size renewal in the trash - and so on and so on for as many years necessary....... She tried to explain why I should not do this - but then the phone mysteriously went dead....
-
Now that all's well that ends well, I hope you don't mind hearing that I had to chuckle at the visual of you performing the Evel Knievel/cowboy walk with a warm trickle going down your leg...
That being said, it sure seems much more common than not to question anything and everything these days. No longer can you rely on suppliers of ANYTHING to be competent, correct and complete.
Here is an example of incompetence that entered my world today...
When I purchased my Bushtec trailer last fall, I applied for the state required license plate. The application asked the question of whether you preferred the full size or motorcycle size plate. I chose the motorcycle size plate. Of course, the state sent the full size plate. I filled out the appropriate paperwork and returned it (along with the full size plate) - and the state replaced it with the motorcycle size plate. In today's mail, I received the renewal for the plate - or should I say plates. The state sent me a renewal statement (and bill) for both the full size and the motorcycle size plate. So, I called our state's customer friendly DMV. Of course, there is a form I can fill out to cancel the renewal of the full size plate - but they also would like me to return my full size plate (that I no longer have - because last fall I had to return the full size plate before they would send the smaller size plate....). Bureaucracy then ensued - catch 22 at its best.
Long story short, I told the nice lady that I would send in the renewal for the motorcycle size plate - and throw the renewal for the full size plate in the trash. And if they could not figure out how to correct their multitude of errors prior to next years renewal, I would again send in the renewal for the motorcycle size plate and throw the full size renewal in the trash - and so on and so on for as many years necessary....... She tried to explain why I should not do this - but then the phone mysteriously went dead....
:2vrolijk_21:
-
Well chit, you don't think about traffic and obstacles in your garage, especially when you're holding the clutch! I'm just glad that there was no damage!
All kidding aside it was way too close. We (me and the bikes) stopped with my right know between the crash bars of each with no room to spare and the rear of the fender inches from the other bike. In the end nothing bad actually happened though. No damage and hopefully nothing that can't be fixed for the time it will take to pull the outer primary one more time and buy a quart of fluid. Compared to the alternatives in this case I'll gladly smile and keep on riding.
-
Now that all's well that ends well, I hope you don't mind hearing that I had to chuckle at the visual of you performing the Evel Knievel/cowboy walk with a warm trickle going down your leg...
That being said, it sure seems much more common than not to question anything and everything these days. No longer can you rely on suppliers of ANYTHING to be competent, correct and complete.
Don't feel at all bad Scott. Fifteen minutes later I was chuckling at the same thing. But it took a good fifteen minutes for me to get there. Hell, I think it took me a solid minute before I chose to actually step off the bike.
All that being said; I think I'd rather do that ride once more than deal with the DMV......
-
Don - I've had a Barnett Scorpion clutch in my SEEG2 for almost two years. The clutch was doing great 'til for some stupid azz reason I filled the hole with Amsoil. About twenty miles later, I experienced the same thing as you. I guess in my case it took a while for the synthetic to absorb in the plates. Replaced discs for about $150. PJ
-
All that being said; I think I'd rather do that ride once more than deal with the DMV
...... :2vrolijk_21:
Amen brother!!!!
-
Really synthetic isn't really needed in the primary anyway, probably over kill. Oil in the primary is doing very little lubrication, mostly heat dissipation, from the clutch.
-
Don,
I have a Rivera Pro clutch and they specify the use of Dextron III ATF in the primary. I use Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF which meets all spec. requirements for ATF applications and it works fine. If you like Mobil 1 products, this should work for you also. Glad you did no damage to either bike or yourself, underwear not withstanding!
-
That's right Ernie, maybe Scot could learn from Don's experience :huepfenlol2:
i know i know
just waitin for the powerball ticket...then i'll store one at EVERYONES house
we can ALL borrow em
-
Don - I've had a Barnett Scorpion clutch in my SEEG2 for almost two years. The clutch was doing great 'til for some stupid azz reason I filled the hole with Amsoil. About twenty miles later, I experienced the same thing as you. I guess in my case it took a while for the synthetic to absorb in the plates. Replaced discs for about $150. PJ
Pete, I'm hoping I won't be out the down time for another set of disks. The guy this morning said take them out, wipe them down and go right back together with it. I will let them set in some ATF and wipe them down again before doing that just to satisfy myself a bit that I've done all I can. If it has to come back apart yet again for another set of disks after that I will then become less than a happy camper.
Motor oil for the primary isn't even necessarily my fluid of choice. But when buttoning it up I realized I was out of what I'd normally pour in and I did have a case of the Mobil 1 Vtwin on the floor. The docs so boldly so "any fluid" I figured "hey, what the hell, this can't be a problem." :oops:
Have another 90 minutes or so at my desk or on the phone yet this evening. Then going to go tear it down again. Hopefully it'll just be a matter of disassembly and assembly one more time. If so I'm more than willing to live it with and just ride the machine.
-
Pete, I'm hoping I won't be out the down time for another set of disks. The guy this morning said take them out, wipe them down and go right back together with it. I will let them set in some ATF and wipe them down again before doing that just to satisfy myself a bit that I've done all I can. If it has to come back apart yet again for another set of disks after that I will then become less than a happy camper.
Motor oil for the primary isn't even necessarily my fluid of choice. But when buttoning it up I realized I was out of what I'd normally pour in and I did have a case of the Mobil 1 Vtwin on the floor. The docs so boldly so "any fluid" I figured "hey, what the hell, this can't be a problem." :oops:
Have another 90 minutes or so at my desk or on the phone yet this evening. Then going to go tear it down again. Hopefully it'll just be a matter of disassembly and assembly one more time. If so I'm more than willing to live it with and just ride the machine.
No worries Don. I did the same thing initially not having read the instructions at all before adding VTwin instead of ATF. Removed primary and sprayed down with brake clean while actuating the clutch. Put her back together, worked fine. So that's what instructions are for? Don't worry, be happy!
-
No worries Don. I did the same thing initially not having read the instructions at all before adding VTwin instead of ATF. Removed primary and sprayed down with brake clean while actuating the clutch. Put her back together, worked fine. So that's what instructions are for? Don't worry, be happy!
That sounds promising. If I can stay off the phone I hope to have similar luck later this evening :2vrolijk_21: .
-
That sounds promising. If I can stay off the phone I hope to have similar luck later this evening :2vrolijk_21: .
Didn't happen. Finally got done with the evening's chores about 11:30. Drained the primary and pulled the cover off. Pulled everything out of the basket and wiped all the disks down. Very well. Then wiped them again with a rag with brake cleaner on it. Then soaked them in type F ATF for a few minutes. Then lightly wiped them all back down again and reassembled. Then, same damn thing.
Then I was out of patience. Put away the tools and grabbed a beer or three. chit.
-
What an absolute drag. Sorry to hear about the ridiculous documentation. Now if you had just not read it, well it be a drag, but to boldly post an inaccuracy, really inexcusable. Now Pete, why did you have to replace yours, did it degrade the plates?
-
What an absolute drag. Sorry to hear about the ridiculous documentation. Now if you had just not read it, well it be a drag, but to boldly post an inaccuracy, really inexcusable. Now Pete, why did you have to replace yours, did it degrade the plates?
curious also. what ill affects does the synthetic cause? in the iron head spporty days, we would run atf to help with clutch creeping, and todays clutch plates are like those in an automatic tranny, but what exact problems are caused by the synthetic? does it swell the discs? create surface tension?
-
curious also. what ill affects does the synthetic cause? in the iron head spporty days, we would run atf to help with clutch creeping, and todays clutch plates are like those in an automatic tranny, but what exact problems are caused by the synthetic? does it swell the discs? create surface tension?
I asked the guy specifically those questions as I was wondering if absorption of any amount would cause problem after reinstallation. He wouldn't answer specifically. Either simply didn't know specifically what the issue was or was effectively evasive on purpose. I got the impression he really didn't know the specific answer but had simply seen this happen enough times to know when 1 and 1 equalled locked up clutch basket. He did say without hesitation or reservation that this was something they'd seen before quite a few times.
I hoped that his guidance to remove, clean, use ATF and reassemble would do the job. Unfortunately apparently not. At last not in this case. Once a task starts going downhill though they seem to fight you to the end. So guess I shouldn't have expected anything else.
-
What an absolute drag. Sorry to hear about the ridiculous documentation. Now if you had just not read it, well it be a drag, but to boldly post an inaccuracy, really inexcusable. Now Pete, why did you have to replace yours, did it degrade the plates?
"Drag." Clutch. MrsWe made a joke :huepfenlol2: .
Candy, this has become a real drag. A rather total pain in the arse. Once again the enemy of good is better.
The stock discs that came out actually looked great. They were slipping with the new motor work so I figured, "hey, with 40k miles it makes sense to replace the clutches rather than just band aid a different spring system on top of them." Was trying not do it the easy way and cut a corner. Just do it once, do it right, do it the first time. Well, now it's back apart for the third time this time. My patience has about timed out. And I still have to convince someone that it is quite well time to warranty replace a set of clutch plates.
-
Bolshevik.
-
What is different about the Barnett discs vs the stock that the syn causes so much problem? :nixweiss:
-
What is different about the Barnett discs vs the stock that the syn causes so much problem? :nixweiss:
Obviously some materials difference Jerry. But specifically what the guy couldn't or wouldn't say. Also is apparently the same the case that some do and some don't have problems. Apparently enough have problems that even from the small cohort of Barnett users here we have three or four who have experienced it to some degree. That would suggest it's a relatively common phenomenon with the synthetic oil combination.
-
Latest from Barnett:
I can't damn the efforts or insights of their tech support people. Though whomever in their system did the docs here might deserve a few minutes of special guidance.
Spoke with Barnett tech support again just a few minutes ago. Explained that cleaning everything and wiping it down hadn't changed it. Still had the locked-up problem. Before I got to the point of asking for them he asked for the address to send out a set of replacement disks.
He explained that the disks I have are also an "old style" friction plate now outdated by a "new" plate that is made differently. Rather than a small number (4) of large segments of friction material the new disks will have 20 small segments. Apparently this is better. I just hope it works.
They're supplying the parts at no cost. Still be down for the time it takes ground shipping to get from the left coast to here. It is at least early enough out there that he promised they would ship today.
Clutch change should be a simple chore. It really should. I'm starting to worry now about having it buttoned up to go to Georgia the end of the month. The SERG is here now but I'd really like to get more familiar with it before heading out cross country. SERG doesn't have a trailer hitch either. Would hate to have to leave the trailer behind. Also don't yet have a clue about the cam bearing and tensioners on that 20k mile 2000 model Twin Cam.
I'm just venting now. Hopefully everyone stopped reading after finding out Barnett is supplying disks with no hassle and no charge. Am going to go find and beat the cat for puking on my t-shirt.
-
It'll work out. In the end it always does. And heck, if you had to get close and personal with the RG on the way to Georgia and back, it is still a big step up from your ole softail or road king. Who needs that trailer anyway for such a few days of travel? Have a good time, no matter which bike you ride. Get the clutch fixed though for Sedona. K?
-
It'll work out. In the end it always does. And heck, if you had to get close and personal with the RG on the way to Georgia and back, it is still a big step up from your ole softail or road king. Who needs that trailer anyway for such a few days of travel? Have a good time, no matter which bike you ride. Get the clutch fixed though for Sedona. K?
Thanks Candy. Reminding that it's no big deal is a good thing. I am a bit grumpy right now (Roger will find and display a Snow White based image after that remark).
The Road Glide already has fresh fluids in all three holes. It's got saddlebags and a tour pak. I've gone much farther and longer with a lot less space to do it in. So I am whining for no good reason. Having gotten the trailer now it would be nice to use it again. But, especially for just a short trip back and forth to Georgia the trailer is by no means mandatory.
The thing I'd miss even more would be missing the first opportunity to really stretch out the engine work on the red bike. I was really looking forward to that.
Getting the same first opportunity to get familiar with the SERG would be wonderful too. Hopefully the cam tensioners would not shell on the very first trip. Two bikes can't fight me like that at the same time can they :huepfenlol2: ?
-
ooops, yes, lots more time between Georgia and York then Sedona. The red bike's clutch would have to be done by then. Just have to.
If new plates get here on Friday or Monday it should quite frankly be done whatever night the new parts arrive. It's not like this job takes very long. It just sucks when it drags out like this.
-
And for Gawd's sake remember where you park the parts.
-
And for Gawd's sake remember where you park the parts.
Amen to that Brother Scream. Amen to that. In fact they are all already checked and doubled checked on the parts cart. Tools and parts off the lift and off the floor. Nothing can bump them, hide them or be otherwise rude to them. Shotgun is in the garage loaded with shot specifically sized for chromemoly termites just in case the little bastards are brave enough to show their heads again.
-
Good deal man, good deal. Won't have to sweat that.
-
Latest from Barnett:
I can't damn the efforts or insights of their tech support people. Though whomever in their system did the docs here might deserve a few minutes of special guidance.
Spoke with Barnett tech support again just a few minutes ago. Explained that cleaning everything and wiping it down hadn't changed it. Still had the locked-up problem. Before I got to the point of asking for them he asked for the address to send out a set of replacement disks.
He explained that the disks I have are also an "old style" friction plate now outdated by a "new" plate that is made differently. Rather than a small number (4) of large segments of friction material the new disks will have 20 small segments. Apparently this is better. I just hope it works.
They're supplying the parts at no cost. Still be down for the time it takes ground shipping to get from the left coast to here. It is at least early enough out there that he promised they would ship today.
Clutch change should be a simple chore. It really should. I'm starting to worry now about having it buttoned up to go to Georgia the end of the month. The SERG is here now but I'd really like to get more familiar with it before heading out cross country. SERG doesn't have a trailer hitch either. Would hate to have to leave the trailer behind. Also don't yet have a clue about the cam bearing and tensioners on that 20k mile 2000 model Twin Cam.
I'm just venting now. Hopefully everyone stopped reading after finding out Barnett is supplying disks with no hassle and no charge. Am going to go find and beat the cat for puking on my t-shirt.
And don't anyone start making silly analogy's comparing that comment to any previous similiar comments about head gaskets...... ??? ??? ???
-
And don't anyone start making silly analogy's comparing that comment to any previous similiar comments about head gaskets...... ??? ??? ???
Ok, that was funny. Even more so because when I was on the phone with the guy as he's laboriously explaining that there is a "difference" and that I'll be getting something new and improved going through my head is "oh great, another phukking head gasket." :huepfenlol2:
-
Didya know that if your own vehicle runs into your own vehicle and demolishes them both, that your insurance doesn't cover it? Can't insure yourself against yourself. Don't ask me how I know this, but I once sent a fleet of vehicles out one after the other. Not any more.
-
Just remind me Don at CHL to not park in front of you!
OK
And yes, I'm wounded over that cover thread, this could take time to heal!
:2vrolijk_21:
-
Just remind me Don at CHL to not park in front of you!
OK
And yes, I'm wounded over that cover thread, this could take time to heal!
:2vrolijk_21:
I bet the SERG is afraid of the SEEG in the TwoLane garage! :huepfenlol2: :P :huepfenlol2:
-
I bet the SERG is afraid of the SEEG in the TwoLane garage! :huepfenlol2: :P :huepfenlol2:
MAYBE
Up to 120 possibly.
Over 120 no way!
Can't believe he posted pictures of that cover! DAMNIT, I'm hurt!
-
I bet the SERG is afraid of the SEEG in the TwoLane garage! :huepfenlol2: :P :huepfenlol2:
Just establishing who's No. 1. Bigger di__ thing.
-
MAYBE
Up to 120 possibly.
Over 120 no way!
Can't believe he posted pictures of that cover! DAMNIT, I'm hurt!
I didn't mean running down the road at high rates of speed, I literally meant in the garage - the SERG is praying for the SEEG to get a functioning clutch and clutch operator... :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2:
-
I didn't mean running down the road at high rates of speed, I literally meant in the garage - the SERG is praying for the SEEG to get a functioning clutch and clutch operator... :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2: ::) :huepfenlol2:
I'm sure the clutch will get fixed!
As far as the operator, after he hurt my feelings about the cover, WELL, , , even Zippers couldn't fix him!
:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
-
Didya know that if your own vehicle runs into your own vehicle and demolishes them both, that your insurance doesn't cover it? Can't insure yourself against yourself. Don't ask me how I know this, but I once sent a fleet of vehicles out one after the other. Not any more.
No. I did not know that. That would have reached maximum sucking potential immediately. Since it happened in the garage maybe I could dump it on the homeowners?
-
Just establishing who's No. 1. Bigger di__ thing.
Pope poop (holy chit!), I didn't think about that. The SEEG was jealous because I brought another bike home and it tried to run it down.
I know the red bike is a girl. The SERG hasn't told me what it is yet or begun to give up its name. But whatever it is I hadn't realized until just know that it pissed off the red bike ??? !
-
even Zippers couldn't fix him!
I'm screwed then. Never could work buttonflies anyway.
-
No. I did not know that. That would have reached maximum sucking potential immediately. Since it happened in the garage maybe I could dump it on the homeowners?
Yup, I sent a crew out to do a job once. There was a truck pulling a gooseneck trailer following a one ton service truck following a truck crane. Someone pulled out in front of the truck and trailer and he locked the brakes up to avoid hitting the car, but, the other two drivers behind him, weren't so quick. Bam, Bam Bam. I have every sort of insurance imaginable, so, not a problem, right? Wrong.
-
Pope poop (holy chit!), I didn't think about that. The SEEG was jealous because I brought another bike home and it tried to run it down.
I know the red bike is a girl. The SERG hasn't told me what it is yet or begun to give up its name. But whatever it is I hadn't realized until just know that it pissed off the red bike ??? !
the red bike is a girl------------man, yoiu oughta know better than to piss off a redhead!!!!!
-
the red bike is a girl------------man, yoiu oughta know better than to piss off a redhead!!!!!
Man, don't I feel like Homer Simpson right now. D'oy!
-
Ok, finally progress on the clutch. At least some.
New set of plates arrived about 5:15. Stopped what I was doing and changed in to some junk clothes to R&R the mess one more time. The pic below will show the "old" four pad plate versus the "new improved" 20 pad plate.
The difference in pads won't have any difference in the lockup I had (at least none I can think of). So they replaced them just because the synthetic oil saturation in the original set was terminal. Guess gaining all the extra leading edges for grip is a positive byproduct of nearly driving one bike through the other and on toward the garage wall.
No more lockup. It works now. Hallelujah and pass donuts.
Not totally right though. Still not getting full release.
Pull the clutch lever in and the bike wants to walk. Not hard. But it wants to. Can't hold it without a tiny bit of brake.
Was initially running it this time with the primary cover still off. Just in case. So was easy enough to troubleshoot further. Spec on these is .080 travel for the pressure plate. I'm getting .065-ish.
It's well bled so that's not it. It's those SAC grips that I love so much. The clutch spoon is coming back against that big fat comfortable grip and bottoming out. There's more clutch travel to be had there with a smaller OD grip.
The walk is slight enough I'm going to ride it a bit the way it is. Work off any high spots. Be sure and stop at lights or signs in neutral. Just be careful with it for a bit and hope to get lucky even though I know it won't get better. The ISO grips, as big as they are, are smaller OD than the SACs. So will put them back on to make it better. At least it's rideable again.
-
Ok, finally progress on the clutch. At least some.
New set of plates arrived about 5:15. Stopped what I was doing and changed in to some junk clothes to R&R the mess one more time. The pic below will show the "old" four pad plate versus the "new improved" 20 pad plate.
The difference in pads won't have any difference in the lockup I had (at least none I can think of). So they replaced them just because the synthetic oil saturation in the original set was terminal. Guess gaining all the extra leading edges for grip is a positive byproduct of nearly driving one bike through the other and on toward the garage wall.
No more lockup. It works now. Hallelujah and pass donuts.
Not totally right though. Still not getting full release.
Pull the clutch lever in and the bike wants to walk. Not hard. But it wants to. Can't hold it without a tiny bit of brake.
Was initially running it this time with the primary cover still off. Just in case. So was easy enough to troubleshoot further. Spec on these is .080 travel for the pressure plate. I'm getting .065-ish.
It's well bled so that's not it. It's those SAC grips that I love so much. The clutch spoon is coming back against that big fat comfortable grip and bottoming out. There's more clutch travel to be had there with a smaller OD grip.
The walk is slight enough I'm going to ride it a bit the way it is. Work off any high spots. Be sure and stop at lights or signs in neutral. Just be careful with it for a bit and hope to get lucky even though I know it won't get better. The ISO grips, as big as they are, are smaller OD than the SACs. So will put them back on to make it better. At least it's rideable again.
Success! :2vrolijk_21: What's next?
-
Don,
That walking may get better as the clutch breaks/wears in. I remember a long time ago a friend put a Barnett clutch on his rice rocket and complained of the same thing initially. If I remember correctly after a few burnouts and wheelies that went away. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Don,
That walking may get better as the clutch breaks/wears in. I remember a long time ago a friend put a Barnett clutch on his rice rocket and comp :huepfenlol2:lained of the same thing initially. If I remember correctly after a few burnouts and wheelies that went away. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
This'll be good. :cherry: Don, let me know if I need to bring my 36mm socket, breaker bar, TQ wrench, and BFW, so we can tighten your secondary drive belt when you're done with all those burnouts and wheelies at CHL. :huepfenlol2:
-
I removed the clutch lever and placed about 0.018 brass shim under the pin on each side of the roller that acuated the cltuch plunger. Thus giving it more throw. Thus sending more fliud to master cylinder and it now has move free play.
-
Success! :2vrolijk_21: What's next?
Had that very thought a little bit ago. I realized it sucks having two bikes apart at the same time in the same garage. Kind of takes the fun out of it even if it's raining to point of flood stage and beyond all across the area.
Ok, I'm expecting to have to change grips. So at some time the ISOs will come out of the drawer and go back on the SEEG. Then may take the SAC eagles that come off the SEEG and put them on the SERG. Its OE grips show their age.
Still got to bleed the brakes on the SERG after rebuilding all the calipers. Bleeding DOT5 can blow chunks and take centuries. The EZPull clutch thing for the SERG didn't arrive today so that's all still apart awaiting parts.
Guess that's it until such a time as I pull the fairing off the SERG. Then it'll get a new reflector and the GDO xmitter installed. I'm probably forgetting something. But that's enough.
-
Don,
That walking may get better as the clutch breaks/wears in. I remember a long time ago a friend put a Barnett clutch on his rice rocket and complained of the same thing initially. If I remember correctly after a few burnouts and wheelies that went away. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
If it does "self clearance" it wouldn't break my heart one little bit Gary. If I didn't know for a fact that the pressure plate travel was about .015 short of spec for full release I might even hope and believe it might actually happen. Pretty sure I'll need to give it a little more travel at the spoon though.
Those SAC grips are a very large OD compared to stockers. Even larger than the ISO grips that many are likely to be more familiar with. Also have a leather wrap braid on the spoons themselves. Those things in combination are costing me a lot of lever travel. Since I don't need very much more I think the smaller OD of the ISO grips compared to the SACs will get me home.
-
Had that very thought a little bit ago. I realized it sucks having two bikes apart at the same time in the same garage. Kind of takes the fun out of it even if it's raining to point of flood stage and beyond all across the area.
Ok, I'm expecting to have to change grips. So at some time the ISOs will come out of the drawer and go back on the SEEG. Then may take the SAC eagles that come off the SEEG and put them on the SERG. Its OE grips show their age.
Still got to bleed the brakes on the SERG after rebuilding all the calipers. Bleeding DOT5 can blow chunks and take centuries. The EZPull clutch thing for the SERG didn't arrive today so that's all still apart awaiting parts.
Guess that's it until such a time as I pull the fairing off the SERG. Then it'll get a new reflector and the GDO xmitter installed. I'm probably forgetting something. But that's enough.
Huh? :nixweiss: not a clue....
-
Aww, you're no fun I was so looking forward to you doing burnout and wheelies on your bike. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
I removed the clutch lever and placed about 0.018 brass shim under the pin on each side of the roller that acuated the cltuch plunger. Thus giving it more throw. Thus sending more fliud to master cylinder and it now has move free play.
Son of a bi..... That hadn't occurred to me at all.
Not tonight. But will definitely look at that. Thanks Brad.
-
Huh? :nixweiss: not a clue....
Headlight reflector and garage door opener transmitter. The OE reflector was all flakey and no matter how much I blinked the ef'ing headlight at the garage door it just won't open the damned door.
-
This'll be good. :cherry: Don, let me know if I need to bring my 36mm socket, breaker bar, TQ wrench, and BFW, so we can tighten your secondary drive belt when you're done with all those burnouts and wheelies at CHL. :huepfenlol2:
Oh gee Henry, my bike doesn't have the ooomph to lift a front wheel ::) .
-
Headlight reflect and garage door opener transmitter. The OE reflector was all flakey and no matter how much I blinked the ef'ing headlight at the garage door it just won't open the damned door.
got ya! :2vrolijk_21: (lost my decoder ring)
-
Aww, you're no fun I was so looking forward to you doing burnout and wheelies on your bike. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Can't do a wheelie pulling a trailer. You'll drag your tongue :P !
-
Can't do a wheelie pulling a trailer. You'll drag your tongue :P !
That gives me a thought. Once you drop the trailer you could attach a wheelie bar to the hitch. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Oh gee Henry, my bike doesn't have the ooomph to lift a front wheel ::) .
Yeah........and my bike hasn't busted 100 hp...........really.........!! :o
-
Oh gee Henry, my bike doesn't have the ooomph to lift a front wheel ::) .
Which one?
-
That gives me a thought. Once you drop the trailer you could attach a wheelie bar to the hitch. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Ok, you jest; but.....
That would be easy to fab. And a cruise-in show off kind of product that some dumbasses would be sure to buy. Vertical receiver (so it's hidden normally) quick detachable sissy bar. We could get freaking rich 8) !
-
Which one?
Dammit. I actually had to think about that for a few seconds. Then it was like, "oh yeah, I got two bikes now!"
-
Still got to bleed the brakes on the SERG after rebuilding all the calipers. Bleeding DOT5 can blow chunks and take centuries. The EZPull clutch thing for the SERG didn't arrive today so that's all still apart awaiting parts.
Just curious, but if you rebult everything, why not get DOT4 rubber kits and switch to 4? I've never looked into it. Is there something other than rubber parts that eliminate that as a possibility?
:indian_chief:
-
Just curious, but if you rebult everything, why not get DOT4 rubber kits and switch to 4? I've never looked into it. Is there something other than rubber parts that eliminate that as a possibility?
:indian_chief:
Don't even have to do that Chuck. For example the only differnece between a Harley chrome master cylinder kit for 05 and later and pre-05 bikes is the lid on the cylinder. One lid has a DOT5 warning sticker while the other does not. All the rest of the brake parts could care less too.
Truth be told I wimped out last night. Grabbed a quart bottle of DOT5 out of the cabinet. Had premonitions of bleeding and pumping and bleeding and pumping and crying and yelling and screaming and bleeding and pumping (because, well, that's just what you do with DOT5 sometimes). But I had allowed the possibility of options.
Had flushed the lines while rebuilding the calipers and rear master cylinder. Front master cylinder was new with the chrome kit. So, screw it. I filled it all with synthetic DOT4 and had both ends bled in about 45 minutes.
-
Don't even have to do that Chuck. For example the only differnece between a Harley chrome master cylinder kit for 05 and later and pre-05 bikes is the lid on the cylinder. One lid has a DOT5 warning sticker while the other does not. All the rest of the brake parts could care less too.
Truth be told I wimped out last night. Grabbed a quart bottle of DOT5 out of the cabinet. Had premonitions of bleeding and pumping and bleeding and pumping and crying and yelling and screaming and bleeding and pumping (because, well, that's just what you do with DOT5 sometimes). But I had allowed the possibility of options.
Had flushed the lines while rebuilding the calipers and rear master cylinder. Front master cylinder was new with the chrome kit. So, screw it. I filled it all with synthetic DOT4 and had both ends bled in about 45 minutes.
I've never seen o-rings stating DOT5 compatible or DOT4 compatible, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.
I may just change back to DOT5 for the sake of the paint and powder coat. I really hate how nasty DOT4 is on that stuff. It softens the powder on the lift in seconds when a some gets on the surface. Scary stuff.
Maybe I need to develop a HD pressure bleeder to speed things up.
:indian_chief:
-
I use a suction bleeder (hand trigger) whenever I bleed brakes, whether it's the Porsche, the bikes, whatever.
-
I use a suction bleeder (hand trigger) whenever I bleed brakes, whether it's the Porsche, the bikes, whatever.
I've got a Mity-Vac and it works pretty well on DOT4, but it causes more harm than good with DOT5. :)
:indian_chief:
-
I use a suction bleeder (hand trigger) whenever I bleed brakes, whether it's the Porsche, the bikes, whatever.
I've got the same tool Ernie. But I always seem to make too much turbulence with DOT5 and entrain air in the liquid. When that happens you're hosed for hours. I like the non-hygroscopic nature of DOT5. I like that it's paint friendly. But I hate working with the stuff so much that I almost never use it. Of course on anything with ABS it's not even an option; you can't use it.
-
I think the SEEG really is pissed I brought the SERG home. It just won't quite lay down and let me fix it.
Re: the clutch without enough travel to fully release. ISO grips as used to be on it are narrower OD than the SAC grips currently on it. Pulled old ISO grips out of the drawer to reinstall. Left grip was a glue on. Found it had not survived removal well enough to use over again. Kuryakyn doesn't/won't sell just the rubber inserts. So off to the bike shop to get a set of grips.
They had the ISOs. Put them on. More travel. The clutch works. It's barely enough travel. But it works. The new clutch felt better after fifty miles then it had to begin with. Probably as a result of being just a hair short on travel downshifting required slightly more than the expected effort. By end of ride it seemed to be sorting out though.
Engine still feels and sounds good. Runs great. Drivetrain at least for now seems to be done and ready for the road. Will ride it more over the weekend to continue shaking it down some.
While out this aftenoon the radio stopped working though. Don't yet know whether it's the fuse in the amp, the amp itself or the radio itself. Radio itself powers up though so it's not the fuse in the fuse panel. Not even going to screw with it right now. Have tunes loaded in the GPS if I want to listen to anything. Will deal with it after the trip to Georgia.
-
I think the SEEG really is pissed I brought the SERG home. It just won't quite lay down and let me fix it.
Re: the clutch without enough travel to fully release. ISO grips as used to be on it are narrower OD than the SAC grips currently on it. Pulled old ISO grips out of the drawer to reinstall. Left grip was a glue on. Found it had not survived removal well enough to use over again. Kuryakyn doesn't/won't sell just the rubber inserts. So off to the bike shop to get a set of grips.
They had the ISOs. Put them on. More travel. The clutch works. It's barely enough travel. But it works. The new clutch felt better after fifty miles then it had to begin with. Probably as a result of being just a hair short on travel downshifting required slightly more than the expected effort. By end of ride it seemed to be sorting out though.
Engine still feels and sounds good. Runs great. Drivetrain at least for now seems to be done and ready for the road. Will ride it more over the weekend to continue shaking it down some.
While out this aftenoon the radio stopped working though. Don't yet know whether it's the fuse in the amp, the amp itself or the radio itself. Radio itself powers up though so it's not the fuse in the fuse panel. Not even going to screw with it right now. Have tunes loaded in the GPS if I want to listen to anything. Will deal with it after the trip to Georgia.
See - The SEEG was attacking the SERG...I knew it all along...
-
I think the SEEG really is pissed I brought the SERG home. It just won't quite lay down and let me fix it.
Re: the clutch without enough travel to fully release. ISO grips as used to be on it are narrower OD than the SAC grips currently on it. Pulled old ISO grips out of the drawer to reinstall. Left grip was a glue on. Found it had not survived removal well enough to use over again. Kuryakyn doesn't/won't sell just the rubber inserts. So off to the bike shop to get a set of grips.
They had the ISOs. Put them on. More travel. The clutch works. It's barely enough travel. But it works. The new clutch felt better after fifty miles then it had to begin with. Probably as a result of being just a hair short on travel downshifting required slightly more than the expected effort. By end of ride it seemed to be sorting out though.
Engine still feels and sounds good. Runs great. Drivetrain at least for now seems to be done and ready for the road. Will ride it more over the weekend to continue shaking it down some.
While out this aftenoon the radio stopped working though. Don't yet know whether it's the fuse in the amp, the amp itself or the radio itself. Radio itself powers up though so it's not the fuse in the fuse panel. Not even going to screw with it right now. Have tunes loaded in the GPS if I want to listen to anything. Will deal with it after the trip to Georgia.
Sounds like sibling rivalry to me. You've got a saboteur on your hands. :)
:indian_chief:
-
See - The SEEG was attacking the SERG...I knew it all along...
It's something. The red bike has been tempermental since I tried to feed it all the Zippers chow. But that's all better now. I think now its feeling are just hurt.
I need for that damned EZ pull clutch thing to finally get here in the mail so the SERG can come back down on the floor and the bikes can start making nice with each other. The SEEG always thought the lift was hers. I think it upset her when she got worked on setting on a mere bike jack.