Topic: 103 cam upgrade (Read 26883 times)

saldana9 · « **on:** April 10, 2012, 11:26:36 PM »

i have 2012 fltrx and want to do a cam only upgrade. what do you all reccomend? i also have the fullsac xpipe, cfr mufflers, rsd judge air cleaner and tts master tune.

thanks,

cv

cherryseeg2 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:29:51 AM »

Andrews 57,cycle rama 575,redshift 575,tman 600 or 555 torquester would be at the top of my list.

Ghost__Rider · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:30:03 AM »

I've installed many sets of Andrews 54's and Woods 555's. Both are good, the Woods pull a little harder on the top end than the Andrews. I do recommend .030 head gaskets.

saldana9 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:56:04 AM »

the andrews 54 & the woods 555 are two I was looking at. Are the woods worth the extra $? Anyone have any tunes for the tts using these?

I can get a sweet deal on some s&s 570's.

LC110 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2012, 08:59:41 AM »

SE 204 will make that 103 flat out run. You need some more compresion to get the most out of the 555 or the 54.
I would think with your set up and a set of SE204's you would be up to 90 hp and 105 TQ.
Should be able to run your stock push rods also.
Another cam that is getting some good numbers in 103's is the new SE254e. Doc in Florida has tuned a number of 103 with this cam with great results.

Ghost__Rider · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2012, 10:14:55 AM »

I have a 2012 with Andrews 54's, .030 cometic head gaskets, Fullsac xpipe, tts tuner, SE air cleaner, Fullsac 2" cores....my buddy has the exact same bike and set up except for the cams, he has the Woods 555's. He pulls me on the top end every time. Is it worth the difference? That's up too you. After him spanking me every time, I would go with the Wood's if doing it again.
But both are excellent cams for everyday riding. Good performance without substituting dependability or readability.

2UP3DOWN · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2012, 10:28:57 AM »

I'm running the 555's in my 2010 FLHTK 103. Also has the .030 Gasket and Jackpot Exhaust with TTS.

Certainly a strong cam, however a bit noisy as many have observed. Fuel Moto suggests that this cam isn't abnormally noisy when they do their builds. They also recommend using the woods lifters in this setup.

To get the most out of this cam, I have to run the rpms up 3200 - 4000+ . Just a little different than I'm used to. My 110 FLTRSE3 does't seem to require the higher rpms, however that bike is close to stock.

Spiderman · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:22:51 PM »

Quote from: saldana9 on April 10, 2012, 11:26:36 PM

i have 2012 fltrx and want to do a cam only upgrade. what do you all reccomend? i also have the fullsac xpipe, cfr mufflers, rsd judge air cleaner and tts master tune.

thanks,

cv

Where did you come up with the idea that you want to do "cam only " The single most important thing about modifying any Harley is keeping all the parts matched with one another. It's the old hip bone's conneced to the thigh bone theory of mechanics. There are so many things that changing cams will affect that I cannot go along with "cam only" You need to sit down with an experinced tech at a reputable shop and discuss what it is you want from your engine that you're not currently getting and go from there. For you to up front decide that you're only going to change cams is essentially saying that you have a complete working knowedge of your H-D engine and you know what you need to do. That you're asking for advice seems to belie that

B B

porthole · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »

It seems to me the average person does intake and pipes, maybe steps it up with a tune and then a cam. That seems about where this request came from.

willyB · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:15:51 PM »

I've heard good things on the Woods 555's and the 777's. But they do required a little more compression to get them really working. That's not saying you won't feel the difference without adding compression. The problem becomes if you're pulling the heads to add a new gasket why not just to a nice flow job on the heads since they would be off anyway.

I had a set of S&S 510G's bolt-ins put in my 88 CI Deuce a few years back, nothing else except some adjustable push rods, and it made a noticable difference in sound and performance. Granted it wasn't what it could have been but that only cost me a $1,000 with a tune. Now adding more compression, new cam bearings, new lifters and a nice flow job on the heads you're talking $3,000++. But you'll be getting better performance.

If you've got an extra $3,000++ sitting around then go big. If not, just cams will make a noticable difference. It really starts coming down to how much you want to spend. "More Power = More Money"

This site has a ton of great information on it. Do some searchs on your cam considerations here and you'll probably find the answers you're looking for. Plus, there are a lot of talented folks here ready to help out.

Let us know what you decide. Good Luck!

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:49:38 PM »

This may be a relatively simple solution. I do not have personal experience but have several friends I ride with who have gone to the Ultra Limited with the 103 after bad experiences with the 2007-8 110" motors. They have each gone with the HD 255 cam that comes stock in the 110. In the 110, the 255 is a low end "grunt" cam. They report that it works very well in the 103 with a better power range that it gives in the 110 and is a definite upgrade. Not sure if it goes far enough for you but I'm sure you can find some info on this from the other forums. I've seen several 255's for sale, slightly used. Good luck!

Spiderman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:57:00 PM »

Quote from: porthole on April 11, 2012, 12:28:41 PM

It seems to me the average person does intake and pipes, maybe steps it up with a tune and then a cam. That seems about where this request came from.

That may well be and I'm not saying that it can't be done. My caveat here is to do your homework and be sure you're not going to do one thing that ends up costing you more money elsewhere. My issue is this. I personally do not believe in advising anyone as to a one part modification where engines are concerned. That's me. Many many many years of experience have shown me that it's never as simple as one item.

B B

porthole · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:55:48 PM »

B - go back and read your previous post. I think you came on a little too strong.
No doubt the overall best picture is an engine built with matching components by a competent builder and then tuned likewise. Depending on your purse size of course.

But if you go outside the "tech world" that we sometimes get wrapped up in, you get many people just doing what they hear or read, intake, exhaust, cam and tune, maybe even use a dyno with that tune.

I'm guilty of it too. My bike is exactly that 90% Harley build, intake, exhaust cam and tuner (no dyno though).

And I ride with those that are the other extreme 5-7000 tied up in an engine. I also ride with many that have the minimum.
Although the bike may be extreme and run like a raped ape, it just isn't for me.

As large as this forum is now, we are still a minority when it comes to the 'Tech world"
We just happen to have a lot of the good techies right here

Spiderman · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:10:23 PM »

I don't feel I came on too strongly and here's why. A few years back before the 110 engines came out there was a LOT of chatter on this site about a particular (no name mentioned) set of cams that you install in a 103 stock CVO heads that would give you _ _ TQ and _ _ _ hp ( fill in your own numbers.)
Now, while it is true that said cams did indeed work well with stock 103 CVO heads it turned out that some exhaust systems did not work well with said heads and other factors came into play. Bottom line for me is that I saw a couple of friends with 103's already modified with PC or SERT ignitions, SE breather kits and aftermarket exhaust systems install these cams and end up having to do a bunch of other work. What they thought was going to be an under $500 mod ended up closer to $1,500. I'll risk being called a hard ass ( hmm I was a tight ass the other day - - will people make up their minds) if it means getting a member to stop and think about what they are doing. Look at the WHOLE picture.

B B

glens · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:38:30 PM »

I've got a set of take-out SE255s in my '12 103, along with an X-pipe, stage-one airbox, and TTS kit. It works very well for me and with the dealer installing the cams (which are street legal in the 103) the engine warranty remains intact.

saldana9 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2012, 02:01:26 PM »

Can I use the stock pushrods with the woods 555 cam? I am using stock heads.

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2012, 02:13:22 PM »

Yes! And, they will be quieter than the HD adjustable push rods that your dealer will want you to install. It will require taking off the heads but that gives you the opportunity to install the thinner .030" cometic gasket. That will give you slightly higher compression. Labor is a bit more
$ but less that the adjustable push rods.

dayne66 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 12, 2012, 02:14:30 PM »

Quote from: Spiderman on April 11, 2012, 05:10:23 PM

I don't feel I came on too strongly and here's why. A few years back before the 110 engines came out there was a LOT of chatter on this site about a particular (no name mentioned) set of cams that you install in a 103 stock CVO heads that would give you _ _ TQ and _ _ _ hp ( fill in your own numbers.)
Now, while it is true that said cams did indeed work well with stock 103 CVO heads it turned out that some exhaust systems did not work well with said heads and other factors came into play. Bottom line for me is that I saw a couple of friends with 103's already modified with PC or SERT ignitions, SE breather kits and aftermarket exhaust systems install these cams and end up having to do a bunch of other work. What they thought was going to be an under $500 mod ended up closer to $1,500. I'll risk being called a hard ass ( hmm I was a tight ass the other day - - will people make up their minds) if it means getting a member to stop and think about what they are doing. Look at the WHOLE picture.

B B

Along with the 255s...my 103 has SE 10 1/2 to 1, baisley heads, fullsac true duels, V & H monster ovals, Heavy Breather and a TTS tuned by Russ @ Lonewolf......and I find it to be a great all-around combination.

So now you're a tight, hard ass.....or do you alternate between tight and hard?

saldana9 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2012, 02:22:46 PM »

Quote from: GregKhougaz on April 12, 2012, 02:13:22 PM

Yes! And, they will be quieter than the HD adjustable push rods that your dealer will want you to install. It will require taking off the heads but that gives you the opportunity to install the thinner .030" cometic gasket. That will give you slightly higher compression. Labor is a bit more
$ but less that the adjustable push rods.

I am being told yes and no.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2012, 02:41:42 PM »

Quote from: GregKhougaz on April 12, 2012, 02:13:22 PM

Yes! And, they will be quieter than the HD adjustable push rods that your dealer will want you to install. It will require taking off the heads but that gives you the opportunity to install the thinner .030" cometic gasket. That will give you slightly higher compression. Labor is a bit more
$ but less that the adjustable push rods.

Greg,

If you can use the stock pushrod with the 555, I dont understand why the head has to come off. Yes it is only a bit more to get the head off, but why do you HAVE to. I know why you might want to, to raise the compression, but still don't have to. The rocker assembly will come off without having to take the head off and you can take the pushrods out install new cam replace and replace.

I havent looked at the lifts of the stock cams, and the headgasket will be approx .020 difference, but that still leaves you with .080 if the stock pushrod is in the middle at .100

HOGMIKE · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2012, 03:14:36 PM »

Quote from: saldana9 on April 12, 2012, 02:01:26 PM

Can I use the stock pushrods with the woods 555 cam? I am using stock heads.

Yes

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2012, 04:07:20 PM »

I do not know that you HAVE to remove the heads but was told that it makes it much easier and that the cometic gasket is worth doing as it gives you some very cheap HP. Sounds like Unbalanced knows better than I. I assumed you'd check with your own mechanic. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

GK

saldana9 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 13, 2012, 06:54:39 AM »

Well if I have to use adj pushrods then I would go ahead and resurafce the heads to get more compression. How much would I need to take offon the stock heads for the woods 555?

Dead_Reckoning · « **Reply #23 on:** April 13, 2012, 07:11:19 AM »

A common practise I have seen is that the wrench use Bolt Cutters and cut the Push Rods, they can then be removed. Then use new Adjustable pushrods. No need to expend time and money on removing the heads, unless you feel the need to do so.

How is your present Intake,Exhaust and compression going to match up to those new magic cams?

DR

saldana9 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 13, 2012, 07:45:29 AM »

$100 something for pushrods. My time and effort to remove heads free. The weathet is still chitty here so I dont mind.

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #25 on:** April 13, 2012, 01:18:01 PM »

This may help you: Justin Bramstedt, Research Manager at S&S Cycle, walks you through the process of upgrading the stock cams on a Harley Davidson FLTRX. The S&S 510C camshaft set is designed to be used with the stock Twin Cam chain-drive system and is an economical way to improve the performance of stock twin cam engine. In this video we'll see the easiest way to remove your stock pushrods using a bolt cutter.

glens · « **Reply #26 on:** April 13, 2012, 05:29:09 PM »

Quote from: saldana9 on April 13, 2012, 06:54:39 AM

Well if I have to use adj pushrods then I would go ahead and resurafce the heads to get more compression. How much would I need to take offon the stock heads for the woods 555?

Who told you that the heads need removed? Worst case is the rocker covers if you don't want the extra chance for unreliability of adjustable pushrods.

porthole · « **Reply #27 on:** April 13, 2012, 11:36:58 PM »

So now my adjustable push rods are unreliable?

glens · « **Reply #28 on:** April 14, 2012, 12:23:39 AM »

Probably not.

porthole · « **Reply #29 on:** April 14, 2012, 12:31:23 AM »

Quote from: glens on April 13, 2012, 05:29:09 PM

the extra chance for unreliability of adjustable pushrods.

glens · « **Reply #30 on:** April 14, 2012, 12:40:09 AM »

Look, it's simple: the more parts used to perform the same task, the more chance the task can be interrupted by a part failure. Think Glock vs. Colt, etc. Not to say the more-complicated package can't or won't be reliable; just that the simpler one will always be more so.

You've never had or heard of an adjustable pushrod lose its adjustment? Really?

Black Diamond · « **Reply #31 on:** April 14, 2012, 12:32:17 PM »

Quote from: porthole on April 13, 2012, 11:36:58 PM

So now my adjustable push rods are unreliable?

The more you read about things on the internet, it's a wonder anything works. I'm heading out to the garage to just my adjustable pushrods, crank, lifters, ........ Or I could use my own experiences to make decisions on what needs to be addressed.

Quote from: glens on April 14, 2012, 12:40:09 AM

Look, it's simple: the more parts used to perform the same task, the more chance the task can be interrupted by a part failure. Think Glock vs. Colt, etc. Not to say the more-complicated package can't or won't be reliable; just that the simpler one will always be more so.

You've never had or heard of an adjustable pushrod lose its adjustment? Really?

Damn...now I got to get a Glock and let go of my 1911.
Wish I could remember why my team carries 1911s. Nevermind just want to vent.

JW

glens · « **Reply #32 on:** April 14, 2012, 02:46:34 PM »

Well, at least I'm spurring emotion and discussion...

Black Diamond · « **Reply #33 on:** April 14, 2012, 07:20:58 PM »

Quote from: glens on April 14, 2012, 02:46:34 PM

Well, at least I'm spurring emotion and discussion...

LOL!

Twolanerider · « **Reply #34 on:** April 14, 2012, 08:32:45 PM »

Quote from: Black Diamond on April 14, 2012, 12:32:17 PM

Damn...now I got to get a Glock and let go of my 1911.
Wish I could remember why my team carries 1911s. Nevermind just want to vent.

JW

Beat bad guys with a big stick Jeff. No moving parts at all there. Snipers get a really really long big stick.

porthole · « **Reply #35 on:** April 14, 2012, 08:46:48 PM »

Never been burned by my CCC but my Glock went back down south for an inspection for case blow outs.

And no. I never experienced changing adjustments pushrods.

glens · « **Reply #36 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:17:46 PM »

You're not supposed to re-use the brass in a Glock. The chamber throat dimensions are too generous and the brass stretches too much. What was the determination?

porthole · « **Reply #37 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:25:57 PM »

No reloads ever used.
Glock said nothing was wrong but they rebuilt the gun anyway, no charge.

saldana9 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 16, 2012, 11:53:21 PM »

Just finished up installing the Tman TR-600SM cam. I have a couple of questions.

1. Why would I have a clicking noise coming from the Air Cleaner? The valve train seems to be quiet. I didnt run it real long because it was late.

2. Would any of you have a starting TTS map for this cam? Or is there a Screamin Eagle cam that is close?

Thanks,
Cv

gabbyduffy · « **Reply #39 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:15:44 PM »

The ticking noise coming out of the air cleaner is called reversion. It comes from the overlap in your cams. The noise is your throttle plate rattling............

grayghost731 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:33:10 PM »

Quote from: saldana9 on April 16, 2012, 11:53:21 PM

Just finished up installing the Tman TR-600SM cam. I have a couple of questions.

1. Why would I have a clicking noise coming from the Air Cleaner? The valve train seems to be quiet. I didnt run it real long because it was late.

2. Would any of you have a starting TTS map for this cam? Or is there a Screamin Eagle cam that is close?

Thanks,
Cv

Did you get it dyno ? If so please share results Im lookin into t-man cams also

Thanks GrayGhost

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #41 on:** June 02, 2012, 10:50:52 AM »

With stock motor they make about 90/95 SAE

grayghost731 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 02, 2012, 01:14:56 PM »

Quote from: Deweysheads on June 02, 2012, 10:50:52 AM

With stock motor they make about 90/95 SAE

Thank you

Author Topic: 103 cam upgrade (Read 26883 times)