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Author Topic: Open letter to Harley Davidson  (Read 16015 times)

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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2019, 09:02:26 PM »

this combined with the "You look cool on one" philosophy is what is killing HD IMO.

Lack of response to serious design issues/flaws combined with OUTDATED philosophy that has been the backbone of advertising has resulted in significant sales decline both abroad and domestic.

Sell a bike on it's merits (mechanical achievements), not because you say IT MAKES YOU FREE AND COOL.
Owned new Harleys for 28 years, 12 of them. Including CVO's.

Recently i bought a new 18 BMW K1600 B or bagger. 160hp straight 6cyl stock, comfortable, handles and features Harley has only dreamed about. All for close to half of what you pay for a CVO. This includes an amazing clutch free shifting setup. You go through the gears up or down by simply tapping the shifter. Adds so much enjoyment to riding. Comes with Reverse, electronic adjustable suspension modes depending on load or type of riding desired.

Could go on and on. Not trying to put Harley down, i just believe they should compete.

BMW provides a 3yr, 36,000 mile warranty. Extended plans are much less expensive.

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bbrown

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2019, 08:15:48 AM »

Like others I have seen the interest in Harley’s ebb and flow through the years.

PRICE.  This is an issue however I see Millennials spend almost $15,000 for peddle bikes.  Go figure.   They have the money to spend.

CLUTCH.  None of our millennial kids nor their friends have ever driven a vehicle with a clutch....something for Harley to think about.  Just sayin.

WAR.  I hope to never live in a time of war again but some of Harley’s best sale years were during and after major wars.


I think we all need to accept the fact that the market demand for this type of product has lowered and will like stay that way.  As others have mentioned, it was us boomers that pushed this company up hill.  But we are going away ...irrevocably changing the long term market for this product and company
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 08:18:44 AM by bbrown »
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fastfreddy

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2019, 05:53:41 PM »

Owned new Harleys for 28 years, 12 of them. Including CVO's.

Recently i bought a new 18 BMW K1600 B or bagger. 160hp straight 6cyl stock, comfortable, handles and features Harley has only dreamed about. All for close to half of what you pay for a CVO. This includes an amazing clutch free shifting setup. You go through the gears up or down by simply tapping the shifter. Adds so much enjoyment to riding. Comes with Reverse, electronic adjustable suspension modes depending on load or type of riding desired.

Could go on and on. Not trying to put Harley down, i just believe they should compete.

BMW provides a 3yr, 36,000 mile warranty. Extended plans are much less expensive.

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    great... glad you love it..... the ford Taurus of motor cycles   :2vrolijk_21:
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 05:58:23 PM by fastfreddy »
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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2019, 10:45:47 PM »

    great... glad you love it..... the ford Taurus of motor cycles   :2vrolijk_21:
Ya right.....had a guy on a pumped up Dyna blow by me the other day, after two light that i let him feel good i finally gave my B a little throttle, not really on it but more than normal. Blew by him like he was standing still. The next light he looked over and said some respectable words. Good guy.

Ford Taurus? Not hardly. Harleys are nice bikes. They are not leaders in performance, handling, features, brakes or comfort. BMW's have there issues as well but lack of performance is not one of them.

Actually, a Harley has more parts from China than BMW, big time.

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Ironhorse

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2019, 12:03:07 PM »

Anybody who buys a Harley knows what they're getting,...a Harley.
Not German high tech design and not Japanese dependability and comfort. They're getting a Harley.

So they should not be surprised that they get all that comes with having a Harley.
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iski

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2019, 02:48:49 PM »

Anybody who buys a Harley knows what they're getting,...a Harley.
Not German high tech design and not Japanese dependability and comfort. They're getting a Harley.

So they should not be surprised that they get all that comes with having a Harley.

Agreed. That was also true for me in the 1970s.  Worked for guys who rode Harleys back then.  They didn't handle all that well, cost more, were bulky & heavy, and as for as performance - fuhgettaboutit.  German and Japanese bikes had more power, better handling, and cost less back then.  Not exactly apples to apples because things change, but is still generally true today.

What has changed is the MC buyer & the Baby Boomer generation desire for bigger cruisers vs the alternatives preferred by younger generations.
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fastfreddy

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2019, 05:45:14 PM »

Ya right.....had a guy on a pumped up Dyna blow by me the other day, after two light that i let him feel good i finally gave my B a little throttle, not really on it but more than normal. Blew by him like he was standing still. The next light he looked over and said some respectable words. Good guy.

Ford Taurus? Not hardly. Harleys are nice bikes. They are not leaders in performance, handling, features, brakes or comfort. BMW's have there issues as well but lack of performance is not one of them.

Actually, a Harley has more parts from China than BMW, big time.

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let me get this... your 6 cylinder beat a 2 cylinder... I have to go get my calculator ill be back   ???
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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2019, 09:35:22 PM »

let me get this... your 6 cylinder beat a 2 cylinder... I have to go get my calculator ill be back   ???
1600cc 6cyl. Yes its an engineering work of art but like most high performance vehicles comes at a price.

That said; BMW hired one of the worlds best engine engineering companies to develop the K1600 motor. The same company that developed the 200mph+ Bugatti engine. BMW wanted the best touring motorcycle  motor available. Most who ride them feel they succeeded. A 160hp 6cyl 1600 that's smooth as butter without a counter balancer or rubber mounting.

Not ment to knock Harley just think the MoCo needs to compete. Design a competitive  engine, frame and suspension. Tradition is not going to keep the MoCo around for another 20 years.

I would have preferred buying a Harley, made in America with components made in America, competitive performance, frame and suspension. At least to the new V-twin Yamaha Venture standards.

I'm hoping for the best.

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J.D.

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2019, 09:56:38 PM »

IMHO, here's Harley's problem - they're trying to please everyone and they are pleasing no one.

By that I mean there seems to be essentially two motorcycle markets.  One for the "DIY" guy who doesn't care about big power and high tech.  Just wants an old fashioned Harley that he can tinker on for a relatively low price.  The other for the "modern" guy who wants gps, electronic everything, water cooled, big power, and doesn't want to do anything but ride it.

The idea of making big power on these ancient lawn mower engines is a joke.  Big inch twin cams and M8s all have reliability issues and even after throwing thousands of dollars at them still can't compete with a stock BMW or Honda off the showroom floor.

I thought it would have made sense to develop a modern touring bike based on the VRod engine, but HD killed it.

I don't see HD surviving selling overpriced, underperforming and unreliable bikes much longer.  Their customer service and handling of issues is compounding their problems.  They need big changes and a leader to take them in a different direction.
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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2019, 09:23:33 PM »

IMHO, here's Harley's problem - they're trying to please everyone and they are pleasing no one.

By that I mean there seems to be essentially two motorcycle markets.  One for the "DIY" guy who doesn't care about big power and high tech.  Just wants an old fashioned Harley that he can tinker on for a relatively low price.  The other for the "modern" guy who wants gps, electronic everything, water cooled, big power, and doesn't want to do anything but ride it.

The idea of making big power on these ancient lawn mower engines is a joke.  Big inch twin cams and M8s all have reliability issues and even after throwing thousands of dollars at them still can't compete with a stock BMW or Honda off the showroom floor.

I thought it would have made sense to develop a modern touring bike based on the VRod engine, but HD killed it.

I don't see HD surviving selling overpriced, underperforming and unreliable bikes much longer.  Their customer service and handling of issues is compounding their problems.  They need big changes and a leader to take them in a different direction.
Could not have said it better.

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owl893

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2019, 11:22:49 AM »

Ya right.....had a guy on a pumped up Dyna blow by me the other day, after two light that i let him feel good i finally gave my B a little throttle, not really on it but more than normal. Blew by him like he was standing still. The next light he looked over and said some respectable words. Good guy.

Ford Taurus? Not hardly. Harleys are nice bikes. They are not leaders in performance, handling, features, brakes or comfort. BMW's have there issues as well but lack of performance is not one of them.

Actually, a Harley has more parts from China than BMW, big time.


They Are leaders in t-shirt sales though.  :2vrolijk_21:

I do not regret owning my CVO, although imperfect, it runs and rides smooth enough for me, and I never get tired of it's curb appeal.  But I have to agree with several posts here, the product needs serious updates and the dealership experience must take a completely new direction based on customer satisfaction, not work order proficiency.

OWL
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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2019, 10:32:32 PM »

Ya right.....had a guy on a pumped up Dyna blow by me the other day, after two light that i let him feel good i finally gave my B a little throttle, not really on it but more than normal. Blew by him like he was standing still. The next light he looked over and said some respectable words. Good guy.

Ford Taurus? Not hardly. Harleys are nice bikes. They are not leaders in performance, handling, features, brakes or comfort. BMW's have there issues as well but lack of performance is not one of them.

Actually, a Harley has more parts from China than BMW, big time.


They Are leaders in t-shirt sales though.  :2vrolijk_21:

I do not regret owning my CVO, although imperfect, it runs and rides smooth enough for me, and I never get tired of it's curb appeal.  But I have to agree with several posts here, the product needs serious updates and the dealership experience must take a completely new direction based on customer satisfaction, not work order proficiency.

OWL
Owl; my intent is not to put Harley or anyones CVO down. My hope is for Harley to become more competitive. They have motorcycle marketing down, better than anyone. They make beautiful bikes, at least to my eye. They simply need to focus a little more on function.

There is no excuse for a $40,000 bike to disappoint on any level. Upgrade the frame and suspension so the bike rides and handles. Make that suspension active and adjustable from handlebar controls. If your going to stay with a V-twin, use top quality components. Failures of any kind should be rare. If unable to deliver with a V-twin, build a top quality V-four. I know Harley can do it, focusing on electric bikes at this time in history is wrong. Compete on building Harleys, bikes that own the road.




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Ironhorse

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2019, 11:24:27 AM »

There is no excuse for a $40,000 bike to disappoint on any level. Upgrade the frame and suspension so the bike rides and handles. Make that suspension active and adjustable from handlebar controls. If your going to stay with a V-twin, use top quality components. Failures of any kind should be rare. If unable to deliver with a V-twin, build a top quality V-four. I know Harley can do it, focusing on electric bikes at this time in history is wrong. Compete on building Harleys, bikes that own the road.

Agreed.

However that is NOT HDs business plan. Their approach is to make the least effort, with the most simple changes and charge the most money. It takes a lot of time and money on R&D for adjustable suspension like a GoldWing. It's a lot easier to just use fancy paint and graphics backed with chrome.

Of course HD can do better, the V-Rod was and excellent bike, it was just in the wrong package. Lack of sales killed it. The M8 was the ideal time to come out with a fully water cooled engine, but the MoCo just cheaped out, like they always do.  Sumping is the result of poor design and engineering. Same with lifters and cam bearings.
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T-Roy

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2019, 02:48:09 PM »

In the meantime over on the Indian Forum there are spy pictures of an Indian in development with a fixed frame fairing like the Road Glide but also with a completely water cooled engine!!
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scottt

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Re: Open letter to Harley Davidson
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2019, 05:15:08 PM »

In the meantime over on the Indian Forum there are spy pictures of an Indian in development with a fixed frame fairing like the Road Glide but also with a completely water cooled engine!!
Smart!

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