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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: newseultra07 on September 06, 2011, 05:36:50 PM
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Well gonna bite the bullet & change out my cam to the Fueling 574. Heard some good things about it. Hope im making the rite choice. Not sure if i'am going to tackle the cam change or let dealer do it. I have a good dealer that i trust.. But i would like to do it myself but don't have any of the proper tools to do it and dont want to screw it up also...
Does anyone have the Cam bearing Uninstall / install tool i can borrow???????
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Don't forget the oil pump alignment studs as another special tool needed
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Don't forget the oil pump alignment studs as another special tool needed
Oil pump alignment studs only get you as close as the machining of the components allows. I prefer to use the method described in the service manual, which rely's on rotating the crankshaft manually to "center" and align the oil pump... :2vrolijk_21:
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Well had cam & screaming eagle lifters installed today at my HD Dealer. Put bike on dyno before changing out cams to see what difference it was going to make. I'am running the Fullsac X Pipe, 2" baffles & stock A/C. I'am attaching the dyno run.
Safe to say the numbers aren't what i was seeing on other dyno's with the Fueling 574 cams. I can feel the cams coming on around 2700 RPM, it feels like someone pushing you from behind is what i feel. So far not real sure it was worth the $$$$$$ to do this... Tech said he can tune bike with the TTS. Probably will get a custom tune in coming weeks.
I contacted HD_DUDE & he said something just isn't rite with the numbers i gave him. He sent me another Map to try out. He stated he's done alot of bike's with the 574 cam & they all had triple digit numbers.. I'am still hoping a dyno tune with make some difference..
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Something ain't right...
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I agree. I am running the same set up as you: X-pipe, Fullsac 2", stock A/C on my 2012 Ultra
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Did u have a custom tune done Erniezap???
Guess gonna have to throw more $$$$$ at it now.
Yea I'm not thrilled with it at all. Definitely not what I was expecting.
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Had it dyno'd by Bob at RC Cycles
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Looks like they never put the cams in it.
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Looks like they never put the cams in it.
That's what I was thinkin.....
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Cams are definitely in bike. It has a different lope at idle than before. I got the old cams back after installing new ones. I think maybe there dyno is not rite. I going to take to an independent shop that's suppose to be good. I can feel some differerence the little time I did ride it.
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Cams are definitely in bike. It has a different lope at idle than before. I got the old cams back after installing new ones. I think maybe there dyno is not rite. I going to take to an independent shop that's suppose to be good. I can feel some differerence the little time I did ride it.
So they did dyno tune it then? Those numbers are way low and you shouldn't notice "some difference".......you should notice incredable difference :2vrolijk_21:
It makes a huge difference in a tuner that has been basically trained on a dyno machine and a tuner that has "experience" on a dyno and in "performance tuning". Not sure where you're located but ask the members of this forum who is a good performance tuner close to you......they'll know. You may have to travel a ways......they come from So Cal to Nor Cal to get their bikes tuned and that's 400 miles away and are passing many dyno machines to get to somebody that really knows "performance tuning". :2vrolijk_21:
Bob tuned my bike as well as Ernie's (and most of the Nor Cal members here) and while I only have the 1.75 Fullsac baffles and stock air cleaner, I was the first to go with the Fueling 574 cams and my dyno sheet is the first one posted on this thread..... http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=44545.0
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I'm in the Houston,Tx. area. If anyone knows of a good shop that can tune this bike please let me know.. I don't mind traveling a ways to get a good tune..
No they did not tune it, i just downloaded a Map that i found off of fuelingparts.com website & they made a couple dyno runs. I talked to Jim @ MetalDragon & he said that he sent them that map (Fueling Parts.com) they have posted for download for the "X" pipe, 2" baffles, etc.
I just wanted to know the difference between the stock 255 cams & the 574 cams. I previously had the Map that Fullsac sent me when i upgraded the head pipes & baffles. But those numbers were low as well according to the dyno sheet.
There is a shop that i've heard does a good job on a tune close by. They charge $150.00 to tune. I spoke with them & not real sure they can tune it with my TTS. Said they would have to look at it. They mostly tune with the Power Commander. I don't want to spend any more $$$ on a tuner since i already have the TTS.
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Something is odd about this whole thing...With just the Fullsac stage I, the TQ numbers are in the triple digits, and that's pretty much a proven map. If you're using one of Jim's maps, it just doesn't make sense that you have numbers so low. Every motor is slightly different, but not THAT different, and every Dyno is different, but not THAT different, unless it's f'd up and way out of calibration or somebody doesn't know what they're doing.
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How is the bike running? Any backfiring? Exhaust popping? If you have an intake or exhaust leak it could negatively affect the tune. In regards to the guy tuning it, $150 is very low for a full tune. A full tune takes several hours and usually costs at least $300-400. I would go to someone that knows the TTS, spend the $s, and get it done right.
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Only rode the bike home from dealer and that was around 10-15 miles.. I did notice it pulled more when I rolled on it from 70 mph. Felt something different in way it pulled.. Never felt that before with the stock cams. Did have a little exhaust pop and some sputtering too..
Jim at metal dragon emailed me another map to try. Will load it tomorrow and give it a try..
Well no one in my area does the TTS. Although the mechanic that changed cams said he can do it.
I don't really want to spend money on a SEPST plus the cost of dyne time... What a mess this has turned out to be...Just my luck
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Only rode the bike home from dealer and that was around 10-15 miles.. I did notice it pulled more when I rolled on it from 70 mph. Felt something different in way it pulled.. Never felt that before with the stock cams. Did have a little exhaust pop and some sputtering too..
Jim at metal dragon emailed me another map to try. Will load it tomorrow and give it a try..
Well no one in my area does the TTS. Although the mechanic that changed cams said he can do it.
I don't really want to spend money on a SEPST plus the cost of dyne time... What a mess this has turned out to be...Just my luck
Just about anybody with a dyno machine can do it......but that doesn't mean that it'll be a performance tune. You're going to have to find a tuner that knows and has experience with a TTS. But I find it hard to believe that nobody in Texas has experience with a TTS.
Don left his home in the bay area (San Francisco bay) yesterday morning and made it through Texas panhandle already! Take a road trip to Fullsac and have Steve tune it for you. A hassel, for sure.......but when he gets done with it you'll say "this trip was well worth it". :2vrolijk_21:
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new....here's a link for the TTS Mastertune website and dealer network. If you scroll down the list, there are three places in TX that are authorized dealers/tuners. I don't know how close they are to you...from Houston, you could probably even go into
LA or MS too. A couple of the shops in TX appear to be "performance" shops. :nixweiss:
http://www.mastertune.net/dealers.html
Edit: They don't list any dealers in LA or MS. Rod's Performance here in Alabama is another dealer/tuner...he's good.
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Same thing here, 574 cam's, X-pipe, 2.25 cores, stock air cleaner, Bob at RC dyno tuned, bike runs like a champ!! I do remember Jim telling me that he has seen as much as a 10hp/tq gain going from a canned tune to a custom tune. I would invest in a good tune and see what happens.
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JCZ, when you put the 574's in did you change lifters,oil pump,bearings etc. Iam thinking about the 574 camchest kit,because I think that keeping all components from the same manufacturer would be a better fit than mixing and matching. What do you think.
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That's my general rule of thumb also. However, there have been exceptions to that rule, over the years.
Jim (hd-dude on this forum) put mine in. I'm doing two bikes at a time this go around and have had Jim do our previous bikes also so it all kind of starts blending together. But as I recall, without looking at my receipts, stock lifters, oil pump, etc. at the time of the cam install.
Since then, my motor went south and the MoCo paid for the rebuild.....new flywheels (pinned, welded and balanced), lifters, I paid for them to go with temkin bearings and the cometic gaskets.
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Update on this mess. After talking with Ed @ dynoperformance in Dallas & Jim @ Metal Dragon they both suggested i take bike & have a CCP done. The dealer that did my cams is closed on Monday's, but there other dealership near by is open on Mondays. I called the service dept. & asked if they could do a CCP test on motor. After going thru some questions on what i've done to motor etc. They said sure bring it in & will do the test. So took bike to dealer & talked to tech & even showed him some dyno's that i pulled off this site with same components that i had put on bike. He preforms the CCP test on motor, then comes out with results & says with the ACR removed it was 145 PSI, & with ACR on it was 120 PSI. I told him that i've talked to several people about this & they've told me it should be a minimum of 165 PSI CCP. The tech stated that this wasn't his first time doing a CCP & this was what a stock motor puts out.
Bike was running like crap, backfiring, popping etc.
I called Ed back @ dynoperformance & told him of results of CCP. He said that it was really low & possibly the cams were installed wrong ( a tooth off). He said i should at least be getting 165 PSI at a minimum. I also spoke with Jim @ Metal Dragon and he also said the same thing about cams being out of time since my numbers were so low.
I left dealership not really happy about all this mess. I rode to an independent bike shop i knew & spoke with them about my problem. They suggested i take it to a local motor builder & he was really good at tuning with the TTS. I called the shop & talked with him about what was going on with cams, etc. He said bring it over & he would do a CCP to see what he came up with. So rode over to his shop & he did a CCP test he came up with 190 & 187.5 on each cylinder. So apparently the tech at dealer doesn't know what the heck he was doing on the CCP test. I did call the dealership back & inform them that there numbers were way off & i wanted a refund on what i was charged. They agreed on that. I also told them maybe the tech needs to go back to school & learn how to do a CCP test.
Attached is the the final Map. Bike runs much better now, no more popping, hestiating, etc....
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Not quite getting the HP or Torque some others are getting but i'am happy now. Bike pulls hard in range that i ride in. It runs mucho better than before did a tune on it...
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I would take that torque curve over higher numbers any day!
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Not quite getting the HP or Torque some others are getting but i'am happy now. Bike pulls hard in range that i ride in. It runs mucho better than before did a tune on it...
That's more like it. Should be a bunch of fun to ride now!
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Glad to see that you got this mess straightened out!