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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: JONNIEROCK on February 17, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
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Well there's been a ton of stuff about the bad lifters in the CVO motors. Well the last year of the twin cam was 2016. Did Harley Davidson finally get the lifter problem solved or were the lifters still a problem even towards the end of the twinkie?
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I would say still a problem, although the issue is accelerate by valve springs that are too heavy and the quick ramp profile of the SE255 cam. Change the lifters and address the valve springs and consider a cam change, you will be good for a long time.
True engine and head experts will likely chime-in, but just my $0.02
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My 2015 CVO Road Glide Ultra had the last lifter revision that harley did for the 110 TC motors. At 44K miles I had lifter failure on that bike. Glad it was the day before the 2 year warranty was up. Harley replaced the engine.
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on my 16, 110 i changed out the lifters at 21k. they looked and felt good, at 40k changed them again same thing, im at 52k now and thing runs good... makes some noise after a 5/600 mile day but im not worrying about it to much, 98% percent of the time it runs and sounds as good as the day i bought it. dont think i will do any motor work on it till it starts to use oil, witch it dont do at this time.
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My 2015 lost a lifter at 17,00 miles on a super slab . When they go there is no guessing,,, you know. I now replace them every 15/ 20K, I just consider it routine maintenance. Other than the "routine maintenance" of the lifters, I like the 110. I would not hesitate buying a bike that had a 110,, if it a had a documented maintenance record and passed a look see from a favorite mechanic.
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My 2015 lost a lifter at 17,00 miles on a super slab . When they go there is no guessing,,, you know. I now replace them every 15/ 20K, I just consider it routine maintenance. Other than the "routine maintenance" of the lifters, I like the 110. I would not hesitate buying a bike that had a 110,, if it a had a documented maintenance record and passed a look see from a favorite mechanic.
So do you have the quickie push rods or do you take apart the top end every time?
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Stock push rods.... takes me bout 3 hours to change lifters out and clean motor up real good
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on my 16, 110 i changed out the lifters at 21k. they looked and felt good, at 40k changed them again same thing, im at 52k now and thing runs good... makes some noise after a 5/600 mile day but im not worrying about it to much, 98% percent of the time it runs and sounds as good as the day i bought it. dont think i will do any motor work on it till it starts to use oil, witch it dont do at this time.
It is refreshing to read the good stories along with the bad. I have a 2016 and, although low miles, no issues yet. We will see how that goes once I put on some miles.
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Harleys lifters were and are bare minimum to get past warranty period of a 96/103, IMHO. Add the same lifter to a top end of a twin cam with much heavier valves and springs tpo control that and add a fast lift rate higher lift cam and we have a recipe for failure. Better lifters helps but is not the full cure.
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What are the thoughts on Jim's Powerglide II lifters?
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read here on the Jim Lifters https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=113350.30
Personally I would stick with the ones that people use a lot here. S&S standard lifter is a common choice
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I just replaced my lifters as I was in there already doing rocker cover gaskets. I took out Fueling with about 30,000 k's (20ish miles) they looked new. I went with Morels from Don at HD Street Performance, could not be happier. Added rocker lockers, and my bike has never been quieter. And I was able to get the Morel's shipped to my house for about 1/2 the price I paid for the Fueling.
Just sharing my lifter experience
Paul
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So the answer is that it's actually a combination problem. First the lifters are the same ones in 96 through 110 motors and they are not designed to withstand the pressure of the 110 springs. Now add that the factory cam plate and check valve which has a tendency to drop oil pressure into the low teens at hot idle. Then add people who have excessive idle times and it's not if but when it will fail.
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You touched on the problem, a contributing factor, then went sideways.
There is no influence from the factory relief valve at idle unless it is stuck open then you have bigger issues. There is enough internal leakage, by the oil pump gears and internal clearances/orifices, to prevent adequate pressure to crack the relief valve. They start to crack and about 28# and fully open at 32#, YMMV. A cheap Baisley spool valve improves the seal of those but these days they don't seem to be the chronic issue they once were. The cams intensity of the ramps is another contributor. Hydraulic Intensity is the difference between the . 004 duration and the . 050 duration. The stock 255 cam has fast ramps. Then last but not least pushrods that flex under the added pressure. Valve springs don't help either. The flat damper dual springs do not adequately control the problem, but I would consider these lower on the scale of what hammers lifters and causes early failure. The springs weight is a contributor. The myth is the springs have too much pressure, not true.
The springs do not control a valve train with heavy valves, heavy springs, pogo stick pole vault pushrods, and a cam that has very steep ramps. Oil pressure is adequate to refill the lifters but true that low speed pressure raised would not hurt anything. That takes a closer tolerance pump and < .003 crank runout for that pump to live.
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I had two CVO Twin Cam bikes and made it a habit to have the lifters checked every 10k. The local dealer would cover replacement under my extended warranty. Both HD standard and HD SE lifters would begin to show galling on the rollers. I also tried S&S standard lifters and they also showed wear after about 10k. Bothe my TC's had SE 259 cams and the latter one was a SE 117 kit. As a side note- I changed oil every 2,500 miles. I also had "rocker lockers installed on the rocker arm shafts to help control excess play and they did almost eliminate the annoying tap tap noise.
Several friends had lifter failures and it caused extensive damage to the engines so I thought of them as disposable items.
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Over the winter I had TTs 100 cams and Mastertune installed along with changing lifters and valve springs. My installer also howned the cylinders and installed new rings and touched up my heads. Want to say Thanks for the recommendations from the great minds here. My Roadglide wants to fly... I only have about 700 miles on it so far. About 10 outings for me. I won't dyno it. I wasn't looking for numbers just more grunt at the bottom and she pulls hard down low I'm very happy with her.. Thanks again...
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Over the winter I had TTs 100 cams and Mastertune installed along with changing lifters and valve springs. My installer also howned the cylinders and installed new rings and touched up my heads. Want to say Thanks for the recommendations from the great minds here. My Roadglide wants to fly... I only have about 700 miles on it so far. About 10 outings for me. I won't dyno it. I wasn't looking for numbers just more grunt at the bottom and she pulls hard down low I'm very happy with her.. Thanks again...
Did you have it done locally and if so, by whom if I may ask?
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SORRY JUST SEEN THIS. MARK DELANY 330 790 1585. He's in Brimfield. Never advertises. All by word of mouth. Good
guy.
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SORRY JUST SEEN THIS. MARK DELANY 330 790 1585. He's in Brimfield. Never advertises. All by word of mouth. Good
guy.
Does he tune and have a dyno?
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