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[Coyote.]

Just curious what you all are doing. I've had my 110 dyno'd by two different tuners. Both times I have not been happy. 

I installed a Tmax today and after a 30 mile ride, it's already better than I had. I think the days of the dyno are fast coming to a close. 

[Chief]

Just curious what you all are doing. I've had my 110 dyno'd by two different tuners. Both times I have not been happy. 

I installed a Tmax today and after a 30 mile ride, it's already better than I had. I think the days of the dyno are fast coming to a close. 

This time last year there were a lot of happy TMax customers. Many of those happy customers found themselves hating life as the mercury began to climb. 

[Rockdon]

Does the Tmax not work well as the outside temps rise?  If so that is not good news to a Canuck who rides in 60 degree F most of the time and then heads to Arizona with that Tmax in the bike...  Enquiring minds need to know...

 

[Twolanerider]

I was one who had and then dumped the Thundermax.  I believe my problems were more with the company than the hardware.  Though the hardware certainly has its issues.

Ran fine in cooler weather.  As weather got warmer issues became apparent.  Significant detonation.  Bike was effectively unrideable.

This was the Thundermax with it's autotuning component installed and a map supplied by Zippers that was specifically and completely for the hardware combination installed in the motor.

Two primary problems.  First was Zippers itself.  Customer support was untenable.  Laughable if not for it being painful to deal with.  In the end rude and ineffective (with the latter being the far greater concern).

The autotune was the other problem.  I readily admit that the software provided by the mftr allows only little monitoring of what it actually was doing.  The things one could see, however, made it readily apparent that some of the changes it made were just wrong in relation to how the bike was behaving.  Confirmation of this came later with conversations with a gifted dyno tuner I know who admittedly has a good relationship with the company but thinks the autotune module sucks like rocks in space.

To summarize, as much as I (rightfully) despise the company I'm still intrigued with the promise of the Thundermax itself.  The maps supplied by the company for it are not an end all and be all though; their promises notwithstanding.  If you have an experienced tuner local to you who can tune the Thundermax to your bike to get it right to begin with it seems to be a viable an interesting option.  The autotune component in its current trim just appears not yet ready for prime time.  And if you're having the unit actually tuned to your bike by a competent local tuner you just don't have to give a damn about the company's piss poor service after the sale or their attitude in giving it.

[Rockdon]

I noticed a site that is dropping the Zippers thundermax when stock is gone , they will sell no more,,, the more one reads the more one learns. It appears the dream of auto tune might be best left for sometime in the future and a power commander looks ok to richen up the fuel mix and add some revs.

Thanks for the excellent info..

Rockdon

[Boatman]

No dyno or tuner is created equal it seems.  I have no proof to back this up, but you probably only have a 25-30% chance of getting a good tune.  I want something that is rideable under all conditions instead of just large numbers, but that's just me.

[Coyote.]

Well I rolled 40 k miles on my 07 SE Ultra this weekend. I can say it has never, ever, even come close to running as well as it did this weekend after installing the TMax. We started a 300+ mile ride today. First fill up came out to 30 mpg. Second was 40 mpg. The bike runs strong and not any hint of pinging like before. Coming home, I went from 75 to over 90 passing, in 6th, so fast I was amazed. I guess I'll see what summer brings but it's working well for me. 

[Twolanerider]

Well I rolled 40 k miles on my 07 SE Ultra this weekend. I can say it has never, ever, even come close to running as well as it did this weekend after installing the TMax. We started a 300+ mile ride today. First fill up came out to 30 mpg. Second was 40 mpg. The bike runs strong and not any hint of pinging like before. Coming home, I went from 75 to over 90 passing, in 6th, so fast I was amazed. I guess I'll see what summer brings but it's working well for me. 

Congratulations CD.  The trick has always seemed to be having a good map to match your hardware to begin with.  Whether you're lucky enough to have that with a canned map or can get it tuned.  Having a good baseline is the nuts and with that the Thundermax is a promising ECM.  Are you working with or without the autotuning addition?

[Coyote.]

I have the full closed loop system with the autotune. My first fill up showed 30 mpg. By the end of the weekend, I was showing 40 mpg. The base map I loaded was pretty close. True duals and high flow air cleaner. I have a high lift cam in my bike but that was the big difference between the maps. It ran pretty rough the first few times I started it cold. Now it fires right up.

[springer-]

Like so many other subjects, everyone has an opinion.  One person will love something while the next will hate it, same item, 2 different experiences.

With that said, here's my opinion based on my experiences.  I feel a good tuner can out tune the Tmat every time in performance, gas mileage and drive-ability.

[hd-dude]

One thing that the auto tune products (Zippers, DTT, Terry Components) on the market cannot do is timing. Whatever timing curve your base map is set for that is what you have.

[rednectum]

Like so many other subjects, everyone has an opinion.  One person will love something while the next will hate it, same item, 2 different experiences.

With that said, here's my opinion based on my experiences.  I feel a good tuner can out tune the Tmat every time in performance, gas mileage and drive-ability.

absolutely, but for most folks the tmax tunes fuel better than most dyno tuners. thre are very few tuners of your and beans caliber.

[rednectum]

Does the Tmax not work well as the outside temps rise?  If so that is not good news to a Canuck who rides in 60 degree F most of the time and then heads to Arizona with that Tmax in the bike...  Enquiring minds need to know...

 

i have many tmax installed on lots of different build combos. in lower alabama with extreme temps and humidity. you can watch the weather station at the race track and the conditions change constantly. no complaints----have to cure some new customers of tinkeritis though.

[rednectum]

I noticed a site that is dropping the Zippers thundermax when stock is gone , they will sell no more,,, the more one reads the more one learns. It appears the dream of auto tune might be best left for sometime in the future and a power commander looks ok to richen up the fuel mix and add some revs.

Thanks for the excellent info..

Rockdon

the site that is making a big todo of no longer carrying the tmax is because they violated zippers and other vendors advertising policy. you have to sign an agreement stating you will not advertise under msrp. almost all vendors require this. you can sell at any price you want, you just cant advertise lower than msrp. the site in question violated this agreement and cannot sell any zippers products-----the owner twisted the facts.

someone mentioned tmax doesnt tune timing. it does not time automatically, but is very robust in allowing manual timing adjustments. front and rear can be timed seperately and at every 256 rpm.

[Talon]

If you do a search on T-Max you can read all the pros and cons people experienced with this system. I think with proper tuning the units will perform well, but so will SERT, and PCIII.
When the TMAT came out it was advertised as a no dyno tune wonder, just load a base map that fits your bike and it will tune to your build. If you had a simple build or one that matches what Zipper had on hand, then you bike probably ran fine, but many found no map close to their build, and little or no help from customer support. So it took a dyno tune to get the unit to work well. So you spent $300-$400 more than an SERT or a PCIII and still needed to get it dyno tuned. 

[Coyote.]

I will agree that their customer support is pretty bad. I've tried several times now to get a simple question answered. I have a non-stock front motor sprocket (30T) installed. All I wanted to know was how to get the right value to load to make the 6th gear light work. I can't say the light matters to me but I figure if it can work, why not fix it. 

[ace07fxdl]

I will agree that their customer support is pretty bad. I've tried several times now to get a simple question answered. I have a non-stock front motor sprocket (30T) installed. All I wanted to know was how to get the right value to load to make the 6th gear light work. I can't say the light matters to me but I figure if it can work, why not fix it. 

Lower the Final Drive ratio in Basic settings from 87 to 86, 85, etc...I had to go to 85 on my 07 LR to get my 6th speed indicator light working again.

[Eqcons]

One thing that the auto tune products (Zippers, DTT, Terry Components) on the market cannot do is timing. Whatever timing curve your base map is set for that is what you have.

Indeed that is the BIG problem. Mine is fine in normal temps for the UK, but when temperature and altitude rise, with the TMAT, it pings like there's no tomorrow.  If only the TMAT used the ION sensor........ but, it doesn't. 

However, you're perhaps not quite correct when you say autotune products cannot do timing.  The Headquarters Pro Tuner appears to leave the timing adjustments to the stock ECM (after you've loaded a SERT Map), and then manages the AFR.  I think I'm going to try one and see how it goes.   

Jim

[copout221]

 I have had really good results with the TMax system and autotune since I installed it over 5k miles ago. Within several hundred miles of installing the module the bike ran 100% better with no more backfiring, no hesitation in any gear, no more flatspots, better throttle response, etc. I have had some pinging issues but that was immediately resolved with better higher octane gasoline. I don't believe it was the TMax causing it but who knows. Hopefully I will not have any problems this season !!! Also, alot of people are confusing pinging with lugging and they really need to understand the obvious difference. There have been soooo many new mechanical problems (major) with the new motors (96ci and 110ci) due to the new 6 speed transmissions and people lugging the motors. I have heard this from several HD mechanics and two factory engineers.

[SneakyPete]

I have the TMAT.  The AT feature did not work with my build (Zippers 120).  I had my bike tuned by a professional very familiar with the TMAX (non-AT ECM) and complimentary of its features.  Bike ran great went I took it for a test ride, however, while riding home (upstate New York to Virginia) the bike ran progressively worse until it ran almost as bad as before the tune.  When I spoke with my tuner, he advised to disable the closed loop feature and run the bike in open loop to isolate the O2 feedback to the ECM.  Once I did this (very simple fix) bike ran great again.  Since I paid for a custom tune anyway, I decided to remove the O2 sensors, plug the bungs in the pipes, tuck the TMAT wires away and run the ECM in open loop and I haven't had any issues since.  I am not an expert on these ECMs, but my recommendation to anyone having tuning issues with the TMAT is to first isolate the base map from the AT.  Run the bike in open loop, that will tell you if there is a problem with your base map.  If the bike runs fine, enable closed loop and if it starts to run poorly, at least you know the AT feature is causing the problem.  Of course, there are reasons for the AT not working properly other that the AT itself (i.e. intake/exhaust leaks, etc.) that need to be checked.

Like all technology, it evolves over time.  For those who have no problems, when did you purchase your system?  Even though my system is only a year old, I am sure upgrades/changes have been made that may have improved the operation of this feature.  I admit that I haven't paid any attention to the TMAT website since my tune because everything else works perfect.  Most of the others I know of with problems bought their systems before me.

I am open to installing any upgrades to my system that will make the AT work, but I don't see a benefit to me at this stage.  Even if it did work, I don't think I want those O2 sensor wires hanging from my pipes again, so much cleaner looking without them! 

[Twolanerider]

Yours apparently isn't the only similar experience Pete.  When mine was on it made wrong choices as much as right ones.  Far more instructive then my own limited experience with them however was what a gifted and experienced dyno tuner who has been friendly with the Zippers people said.  He reported the same thing.  Sometimes, in unpredictable ways, they just get it wrong.  And they can't be counted on to recover when they do.  An absolutely primary system for engine management just can't be a crap shoot.