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[Cvostu]

That one rider slows down right in front of the SUV.  What do you think was going to happen?  Of course he was going to get hit.  One of those thug riders is paralyzed for life with a broken back in 2 places.   Obviously he didn't care about his own well being or he would have stayed out of the way.  Do you really think a bike has a shot against a car or an SUV?  I feel bad for the driver of the SUV and his family. Totally uncalled for no matter what,,   Maybe the next group of nitwit riders will think back about the few here that have broken bones or will never walk again. Just sayin'...

[iski]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/01/man-paralyzed-and-in-a-coma-amid-debate-over-who-was-really-at-fault-in-viral-road-rage-incident-between-suv-driver-and-bikers-poll/

This is a story that gives a point of view somewhat from the point of view of the injured biker.  The comments below are a snapshot of the attitude of some of the public toward bikers pro & con.

[mark]

Those were not motorcyclists, those were thugs that happened to own motorcycles.  Some comments above seem to imply the Range Rover's driver was at fault.  Did they see the same video I did?  Nice family, driving expensive car, 2 yr old child in the car, that becomes surrounded by aggressive assholes on bikes.  I'm sure out of fear the driver didn't stop and continued on. I would have too.  Once they started trying to break into the car, it would have been Glock 'em time.  I guess the below somehow evened things out:

"Motorcyclist Edwin Mieses Jr. sustained at least two broken legs during the incident, which has drawn national attention after dramatic video of it was posted on the Internet."

One other thing..."sustained at least two broken legs..."  How many legs did Mieses have?

[Wild Card]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e2_1380707420

Watch the second video; it really speaks volumes about the "law-abiding" innocent character of Edwin Mieses, the injured gang member currently paralyzed and in a coma.

Interestingly, he appears to have been riding on a suspended license from a DUI arrest in May and never obtained a motorcycle license. Awesome.

[TinSpinner]

Only good thing I can think of to say about Mieses is that he can ride a wheelie! What total disrespect for traffic laws and those around him though. Another clip on liveleak shows the gang prior to the encounter with the SUV just out for a "peaceful" cruise, weaving in and out of traffic, lane splitting, riding the corm, the fog line and on the sidewalk. Those guys are complete fools! Wonder what would happen if they ran up on a group of true 1%'rs!

[iski]

Good, now I have a better understanding of this type of situation.  If I see a large group of bikes breaking the law & I feel intimidated, especially if my young grandkids are in my vehicle, I can run over them & their bikes to get away from them.  That is good to know.

So if some driver somewhere sees a big group of loud CVO's riding recklessly & feels intimidated by them, then they are justified when they run over one or more of the bikes & the riders to escape.  Seems to be the prevailing opinion here.  That is comforting to know that running a biker over is ok depending on the situation.  Thanks for the education!   

[Twolanerider]

Good, now I have a better understanding of this type of situation.  If I see a large group of bikes breaking the law & I feel intimidated, especially if my young grandkids are in my vehicle, I can run over them & their bikes to get away from them.  That is good to know.

So if some driver somewhere sees a big group of loud CVO's riding recklessly & feels intimidated by them, then they are justified when they run over one or more of the bikes & the riders to escape.  Seems to be the prevailing opinion here.  That is comforting to know that running a biker over is ok depending on the situation.  Thanks for the education!   

There's a difference between a group riding recklessly and feeling intimidated by that environment (from which you can likely just slow down and disengage -- because if they are "riding" recklessly they just keep on going) and being surrounded by and directly aggressed against by a horde.

If the latter I don't care if they're on foot, on tricycles or on Suzukis.  That grandkid you pose as example isn't more important to you than any one of the group that is your perceived threatening mob?  If you think the threat is real you get the hell out if you can.  "Kill them all and let God sort it out" may not be PC; but the sentiment has a place.

[VaEagle]

Good, now I have a better understanding of this type of situation.  If I see a large group of bikes breaking the law & I feel intimidated, especially if my young grandkids are in my vehicle, I can run over them & their bikes to get away from them.  That is good to know.

So if some driver somewhere sees a big group of loud CVO's riding recklessly & feels intimidated by them, then they are justified when they run over one or more of the bikes & the riders to escape.  Seems to be the prevailing opinion here.  That is comforting to know that running a biker over is ok depending on the situation.  Thanks for the education!   

In time it will be a court with a judge and maybe a jury to decide which actions are legal or justifiable. Everything is being decided in the "court of public opinion" now and none of us are getting the whole facts. In reality whether you use a knife, gun or motor vehicle all can be considered deadly force and anyone would have to be able to justify deadly force to avoid jail or civil penalties. The SUV driver would have to prove he was in fear of his life or the life of his family to legally defend his actions, if that was the case then he would be cleared of wrongdoing and his leaving the scene of an accident or using force to protect him and his family would be justified.
This whole situation is a collection of acts that spiraled downward and if the participants had chosen different actions it could have been less severe and we may never know the whole story.

[iski]

In time it will be a court with a judge and maybe a jury to decide which actions are legal or justifiable. Everything is being decided in the "court of public opinion" now and none of us are getting the whole facts. In reality whether you use a knife, gun or motor vehicle all can be considered deadly force and anyone would have to be able to justify deadly force to avoid jail or civil penalties. The SUV driver would have to prove he was in fear of his life or the life of his family to legally defend his actions, if that was the case then he would be cleared of wrongdoing and his leaving the scene of an accident or using force to protect him and his family would be justified.
This whole situation is a collection of acts that spiraled downward and if the participants had chosen different actions it could have been less severe and we may never know the whole story.

Very reasonable, factual, & no problem whatsoever with anything you have written here.  My above post was intended to be a take on the present state of the court of public opinion, fed by media reportage that in general can be said to not be favorable towards bikers.   That opinion has decidedly already formed, based on opinion and what appears to be circumstance yet cannot be certain as to what all occurred & when.

Both sides behaved badly from what has been presented so far, as least in my humble opinion.  Bad behaviors do not justify other or further bad behaviors is my basis for that comment.

So encouraging bad behaviors, based on the bad behaviors of others just does not appear to be a wise choice, especially when as bikers we may be on the receiving end of said behavior at some point in time, whether intentionally or unintentionally.  That remains my point, and I do not expect agreement or understanding since I realize opinions once formed are not likely to be changed by some words in a thread on a message board.  Appreciate your comment though, I tend to agree.

[iski]

There's a difference between a group riding recklessly and feeling intimidated by that environment (from which you can likely just slow down and disengage -- because if they are "riding" recklessly they just keep on going) and being surrounded by and directly aggressed against by a horde.

If the latter I don't care if they're on foot, on tricycles or on Suzukis.  That grandkid you pose as example isn't more important to you than any one of the group that is your perceived threatening mob?  If you think the threat is real you get the hell out if you can.  "Kill them all and let God sort it out" may not be PC; but the sentiment has a place.

Well certainly I would take whatever action I found necessary to protect my family & in fact would do the same for my friends.  Some of these friends at times act about the same as my young grandchild, but I digress. 

As to options of the driver of an SUV surrounded by an angry horde of crazed bike riders - one has several options.  One is to call 911 & wait.  Another is to attempt to find an escape route that does not physically harm anyone or any property. Another option is to floor it & run the hell over anything & everything that is in the way. Another is to get out of the SUV & try to reason (not advisable), and yet another is to attempt to defend oneself in an event that is required.  Still another is to get pulled out of the SUV & have the living hell beat out of you. 

VaEagle outlines some interesting likely future events that may sort this out, but in all likelihood there will be truth, lies, not the truth, almost the truth but not quite, and sheer fantasy - with a slice of each for any who wish to partake.  Such is life in our court systems.

Killing them all & letting God sort them out in this case is a little bit extreme, but then again the world could be a better place for it.  Am hopeful when on my future rides that some cager fellow does not fear for his life when he sees a horde of Harleys on their way to some local eating establishment or purveyor of frosty beverages and decide to take a few of us out.  Probably will not happen, considering.

[cvoDoug]

Yep, just some good law abiding guys.




http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

[The Mysterious Q!]

Only good thing I can think of to say about Mieses is that he can ride a wheelie! What total disrespect for traffic laws and those around him though. Another clip on liveleak shows the gang prior to the encounter with the SUV just out for a "peaceful" cruise, weaving in and out of traffic, lane splitting, riding the corm, the fog line and on the sidewalk. Those guys are complete fools! Wonder what would happen if they ran up on a group of true 1%'rs!

I can tell you but I won't incriminate myself. And lets not give  these rice rocket fools the moniker of "bikers" because they're not even close.

[doublerunner]

Well certainly I would take whatever action I found necessary to protect my family & in fact would do the same for my friends.  Some of these friends at times act about the same as my young grandchild, but I digress. 

As to options of the driver of an SUV surrounded by an angry horde of crazed bike riders - one has several options.  One is to call 911 & wait.  Another is to attempt to find an escape route that does not physically harm anyone or any property. Another option is to floor it & run the hell over anything & everything that is in the way. Another is to get out of the SUV & try to reason (not advisable), and yet another is to attempt to defend oneself in an event that is required.  Still another is to get pulled out of the SUV & have the living hell beat out of you. 

VaEagle outlines some interesting likely future events that may sort this out, but in all likelihood there will be truth, lies, not the truth, almost the truth but not quite, and sheer fantasy - with a slice of each for any who wish to partake.  Such is life in our court systems.

Killing them all & letting God sort them out in this case is a little bit extreme, but then again the world could be a better place for it.  Am hopeful when on my future rides that some cager fellow does not fear for his life when he sees a horde of Harleys on their way to some local eating establishment or purveyor of frosty beverages and decide to take a few of us out.  Probably will not happen, considering.

There is a HUGE difference between seeing a horde of bikers on the road and having a horde of bikers slashing at your tires. He felt threatened for the safety of his family and had to make a split second decision. He did not have time like you to sit at your keyboard and decipher all the possible scenarios. The only "sheer fantasy" here is how you simplify this and make it sound like it was really not a big deal. If I had a group of people....any group....bikers, cagers, any large group all trying to slash my tires and endanger my family then you know I would have done the same. And that group of bikers are fortunate that guy was not carrying because it could have been a lot worse for a lot of people.

Someone breaks into my house, I am taking them out. By the time you call 911 and the police arrive you and your family are already dead. Sometimes you have to react in the moment and that means being willing and able to do serious damage. I would not go sit at my computer and ponder all the possible scenarios

[iski]

There is a HUGE difference between seeing a horde of bikers on the road and having a horde of bikers slashing at your tires. He felt threatened for the safety of his family and had to make a split second decision. He did not have time like you to sit at your keyboard and decipher all the possible scenarios. The only "sheer fantasy" here is how you simplify this and make it sound like it was really not a big deal. If I had a group of people....any group....bikers, cagers, any large group all trying to slash my tires and endanger my family then you know I would have done the same. And that group of bikers are fortunate that guy was not carrying because it could have been a lot worse for a lot of people.

Someone breaks into my house, I am taking them out. By the time you call 911 and the police arrive you and your family are already dead. Sometimes you have to react in the moment and that means being willing and able to do serious damage. I would not go sit at my computer and ponder all the possible scenarios

No idea what you are referring to, since you are also sitting at a keyboard & deciphering things as you see them, creating your own scenarios as you go.  I do not choose to excuse bad behaviors. The bikers in the video rode like idiots. The driver ran over one.  Others see this differently.  Fine by me.

I have had a CCP for some time & as needed would never hesitate to use force to defend those who are near & dear to me.  Or any other method I would choose to employ for said defense. 

As to what started this or what led to this altercation and whether or not it excused any driver or other activity that followed - the facts are not there.  Opinions are.  You have one that differs from mine.  Enjoy it.  I do not appreciate your insults however well intentioned they may have been and suggest you apply these to your own set of thoughts instead of to those of others.

[Twolanerider]

I can tell you but I won't incriminate myself. And lets not give  these rice rocket fools the moniker of "bikers" because they're not even close.

They would of course disagree with us John.  But they'd be full of chit.  We know what our view of bikers are.  We want road and to be (mostly) left alone to use it.  If a few of us get together then it's a whole different affair.  Then we want road and to be (mostly) left alone to use it and to also find a place to eat. 

It's unfortunate the guy that fought the car lost.  Civil court will later work out if he's due anything for his willingness to try and be a bumper brake.  Without knowing what preceded all this mayhem we're all just bums in the bleacher seats if we try to sort out overall fault. 

The only question that is obvious within the term and scenario we can see is does the cage leave his family within reach of an attacking mob.  Whether that mob is made up of bikers or rabid PCP enraged kindergartners the answer is the same; get your woman and kid out of there.