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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: efrbc1 on October 18, 2020, 07:56:54 PM
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Need some help here. 2005 SEEG. Was riding today and the Check Engine and Battery lights come on. Look at the Voltmeter and it is reading 11.5 volts. Turned off the high beam and the warning lights went out but volts stayed at 11.5. Started heading home (70 miles) turned off the spots and radio and the volts steadily dropped to 10 volts when I got home. Also noticed a "gear oil" smell which seemed to be coming from the primary (removed a screw on the inspection cover).
A bit challenged with repairs as I am at my vacation cabin in NC but looking to troubleshoot so I can order parts for a springtime repair so my last week her will be on four wheels.
Bike is 15 years old. Any known issues with voltage regulator or stator/rotor? Battery is new as of July 2020. Thinking about trying to get it in to the HD shop in Asheville on Wednesday to get stuff tested which is probably my best option. I'm thinking that the gear oil smell (never noticed this before) is indicative of a stator going bad.
Any suggestions/advice is welcome.
Thanks.
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First thing with any charging issue is always to check the battery itself and the battery cables. Check for tight and for good cables and cable crimps AT EACH END. Given the odor you described I'd not count on being that lucky though. Always check out the cheap and easy stuff first. But... well.
You'll need a multimeter to do the basic charging system tests. Good set of instructions is at the J&P Cycles website and can be found at the link below:
https://www.jpcycles.com/countersteer/how-to/step-by-step-instructions-for-testing-your-harleys-charging-system
The smell you describe in/from the primary is a decent tell-tale for a bad stator. Stator taking a voltage regulator along with it does happen. So don't be completely surprised if you need both.
If you discover only one part bad, just the stator or the regulator, count yourself lucky and move on. It's really not cost effective to consider a system upgrade if you're just replacing one part; especially if you're doing the work yourself.
If you're buying two parts, of if you're paying someone to take the primary apart to change a stator you might consider an upgrade option though. It's not that you're charging system doesn't work fine for what it's asked to do. After all, yours lasted about 15 years. But the 06 and newer bikes did get a better charging system. Harley went to a higher output and three phase charging system starting with 2006.
Cycle Electric makes kits wherein you can buy all you'd need for the three phase upgrade all in one part number. The other option is to start watching eBay for used three phase parts from a newer bike to score parts at a bargain. Likely not an option when you're broke down away from main house and tools. Good luck.
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Awesome info - thanks. Off to NAPA to get a multimeter. Yeah, this bike is never easy so I'm betting a stator just because it is the hardest thing to change.
Thanks again.
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If you wind up having to go in to the primary to remove and replace the stater might be an opportunity to upgrade to the 50 amp alternator. One of the advantages to the 50 amp I rotor is that it is much lighter rotating mass. Fewer issues with spline and compensator nut etc.
Here are the part numbers are used for my upgrade when I had a 2004 seeg
74505-06 voltage reg. assembly - 74622-06 chrome
29987-06 stator assembly
29943-06 ROTOR ASSY, 3 PHASE (taken from 2006 parts list)
74115-06 - repair pigtail to connect regulator to harness.
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Probably and hopefully just the regulator which is a fairly common and pretty easy fix. Keep us posted please.
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As someone mentioned, the smell is the single best test for a fried stator beyond actually checking the stator for a ground. When I worked at a dealership years ago that is the first thing we would check for and if it smelled really bad you can about guarantee it’s done for. It’s been 15 years so memory is fading but I don’t ever recall a case where the oil smelled terrible and the stator was good.
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ive had the "smell" on my 2000.. new stator needed - used a meter and did the ohm checks.. did a battery check - thought about it for about 10 mins.. did the 50 amp upgrade. new stator, new regulator, new battery, changed all the primary seals, and did the final drive change to a lower [higher numerical] reduction of the final drive. did the final drive change on my 07 a few years ago - worth 5000 of engine parts changing the gearing. its SO much work to get the stator out - if you are doing the work yourself, do all the seals at least - including the shifter seal while its apart.
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If you do the work, you may want to consider a bit of extra work to clearance the inner primary so you can get the stator out without removal if it ever happens again.
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I also have SEEG :jalapeno: and have experienced the dreaded no charge. After ordering in (week and a bit) and purchasing a new regulator and a new stator I figured I was home free. Once I opened the primary and pulled everything out I found all sorts of metallic chunks around the output shaft bearing and seal. First thought was OH sh-t, now I'm in trouble”. Long story short, the splines on the rotor had sheared off and were floating around. Order in a rotor now, another week, clean everything out, reassemble and good to go. Moral of the story, if you are in there, just change it out.
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...and not to belabor the point; but if you're just needing one part just replace the one. Then ride on and be happy. If you're needing two or three though there's not that much price difference between buying what's in their originally versus buying parts for the three phase upgrade. It's a worthwhile upgrade if you're buying most or all of the same parts anyway. Especially if you have to shop eBay for awhile and catch bargains.
When I still had my 05 SEEG if I was riding in cold weather and had on the heated clothing, the heated seat, the heated grips, the spot lights, the radio, etc the stock charging system couldn't keep up. I'd have to turn off spot lights and radio if I remember correctly to allow the system to keep up. Trailer lights may have been added to that mix but they were LED so not much of an add.
There was, if I remember correctly, a 40 amp upgrade you could do on those easily. That helped but it still did not quite run everything.
My old 2000 Road Glide and the 02 Road King both have the 50amp three phase parts installed. You don't get the drop that happens in single phase so the power is continuous and it's better at idle and up without dropping off when the RPMs fall back down. Can run everything on the Road Glide, all the heated stuff, all the lights, trailer, radio with its external amp, etc and the charging system has no problem keeping up.
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Just an update. Bike is now home with me in Florida. Going to get into it later this week. Couldn't get it in anywhere (short notice) to get it tested in NC so it's just easier to get it looked at here. Also have all the tools I need to do the work here. Motor was apart a couple of years ago so all bearings and seals are "new". Spoke with Cycle Electric and most likely going to go in that direction if more than one part is needed. I will update when finished.
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If you have a two pin Alternator and Regulator, testing is Easy. Using a Multimeter the Ohms scale shouldn't have a any Resistance to Motor Gnd, there should be some Resistance between the two leads.
With the motor running at 2200 rpm set the Meter to read AC voltage, should be 24-26 vac.
With everything connected, motor running at 2200 rpm should have 14.1 VDC. If all is good your battery is bad. This should help you isolate the Stator/Roror,
Voltage Regulator and Battery.
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Good news / bad news. Figured it out (good news). Tested it today and both the stator and regulator are bad (bad news). Ordering the Cycle Electric kit tomorrow and should have it back up and running is about a week (more good news!). Thanks to all for the information.
Chris
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Cycle Electric makes Great charging systems. You shouldn't have any problems with thier parts. I have used them in the past. No Problems.
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Your stator needs replacement. Good time to look behind at the inner primary seals for weeping and replace those too if needed at the same time.
After replacing that check charging voltage then look at the regulator if it is not charging. It should be at 14+v at a high idle.
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Did all bearings and seals when I rebuilt the motor (lifter) in 2018. Regulator also tested bad so I went with the Cycle Electric kit (Stator, Rotor and Regulator). Hope to get it done early next week. Thanks.
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Wow! Not quite the information I was hoping to hear but I guess I should have expected that. Thank you guys so much for your input and your wisdom. I have started the teardown haven't gotten too far. So the cam chest where the lifter bore is at is damaged as well, is this something a machine shop can fix Or should I just locate another crankcase?
Also guys I have a 2016 CVO Pro Street breakout with a 110 in it and now I'm scared chittless to ride this thing. Any advice before this ends up on the Shelf with the other one?. Thank you so much guys
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Hard to tell from the photo how bad the scoring is. I believe you can get oversize lifters but I'm not sure. I would have a machine shop look at it to see what they can do with it as cases are not cheap. I was lucky, my case came out OK.
FYI, you posted this in my Charging Issue thread.
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Yes they can be sleeved but the cost is not cheap, about half the cost of a new case.
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All done!! Charging at just under 14 volts again. Cycle Electric kit is awesome. Easy to install and everything fits!
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All done!! Charging at just under 14 volts again. Cycle Electric kit is awesome. Easy to install and everything fits!
Did you go with the three phase kit or just a direct replacement kit to original specs?
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Stator was burnt and Voltage Regulator tested bad so I went with the three phase kit. Probably $50 more than if I had gone with HD Stator and VR but American made and a two year warranty with higher output. Couldn't pass that up.
Thanks for your help.
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Stator was burnt and Voltage Regulator tested bad so I went with the three phase kit. Probably $50 more than if I had gone with HD Stator and VR but American made and a two year warranty with higher output. Couldn't pass that up.
Thanks for your help.
That's a good kit and I'm sure you'll like the difference. Nice improvement there.