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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin’ Eagle® Ultra Classic® Electra Glide® => Topic started by: Goretto on January 13, 2019, 09:51:55 AM
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I live in Jakarta, Indonesia and I recently purchased a FLHTCUSE with, wait for it, 9,000 miles on it, although I'm under no illusion that is correct. The bike is stock except for free flow modified original exhaust.
I would like to preface with this: roads in Jakarta are congested to say the least. A lot of traffic jams and intense, humid heat during the day. Roads are in poor conditions with a lot of pot holes and uneven roads. Motorbikes are not allowed on the motorway so we rarely get to ride the bike fast unless we go touring outside of the capital but even then it's still no motorway, just quieter (and beautiful) roads. Maybe we do about 45MPH on average during those times.
First troubles came on the way home when I lost the clutch due to heat in traffic jams. Got the hydraulic fluid changed and so far so good.
Then I started getting troubles like in this video:
https://youtu.be/370j4lHvUJ8
When the bike gets hot and I stop somewhere and restart the bike shortly after, the above occurs. Sometimes I can restart in the first try sometimes after the 5th or more time. The last time this occurred was this morning after I had oil coming out of the air cleaner. It was quite a bit of oil, spraying allover the crank case, exhaust, bags and yours truly, with a lot of white smoke when it hit the hot bits (excluding me).
At this stage I felt the engine was very hot to the point where it was uncomfortable on my legs. Stopped the bike for a couple minutes and had some troubles starting again like on the video.
Later that day, I stopped again for a few minutes and had even more troubles starting the bike.
The owner of the garage is a friend and while not a mechanic himself, he's been riding Harleys for a long time and owns several show rooms. He reckons the oil is bad, as in the wrong kind. It's dark and too liquid according to him. It wouldn't surprise me because it looks like the bike got some shoddy work done to it in the past. I will replace the oil this week.
I also have an engine light coming on after starting. So I turn the ignition, flick the on switch, engine light comes on (normal) while the fuel pump does its thing, then I start the bike and the engine light comes back on for a couple seconds then off.
Last week, after facing similar troubles, I ended up with a solid engine light and battery charge light. Took it to the mechanic who showed me a busted rotor. He fixed that along with some electric issues in the fairing as well as a busted front motor mount.
After replacing the mount (Drag Specialties, old style kind), I've noticed some fairly strong vibrations at low rpm. Say, I'm stopping at a stop light, as soon as the needle crosses down the 2k mark, I feel those vibrations through he fairing, crotch and floor boards.
Next, I feel that from 3rd to 4th gear, I don't get much engine pull at all. Feel very sluggish, like I tist the throttle but the bike hardly pushes.
There is also this noise that I can clearly hear from the air cleaner, a kind of "knocking" sound on rhythm with the engine although I feel this is the cooling system kicking due to heat. I tried to look around for something lose, even the push rod covers, air cleaner, etc. Nothing that I can see externally.
Oh and I also had an error code for idling problems. I can't remember exactly, something about irregular idle.
So to sum up:
- hard start when hot with smoke coming out of the air cleaner
- oil coming out of air cleaner when bike is very hot
- engine light coming on for a couple seconds after engine start
- knocking sound coming from air cleaner (that's where I hear it lost but feels like the sound is inside the engine and coming out through the air cleaner)
- low pull in 3rd and 4th gear (haven't event had the chance to go to 5th geary yet).
- vibrations at idle
Aside from the above, anything I should be looking out for? I've already read extensively about the cam chain tensioners, so I shall get those checked soon.
Thank you in advance for your help.
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Not a fan of the Drag Motor Mount and if mine I would and did rid of the drag motor mount and put a Harley back on it will help diminish the vibration, I just dealt with this.
Also make sure the torque spec is right many over tighten and don’t use a torque wrench.
Noise out of the throttle body could be normal
Sounds like the bike is over heated a lot you might want to consider jug cooling and oil cooling
https://www.ultracoolfl.com/
Love jugs for heads or similar
You might consider a compression test and a leak down to see the health of cylinders rings piston
Are you starting the bike in neutral ? You could have compression releases not opening. Maybe needing cleaning or replacing
Arm chair diagnostics - please verify and validate
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Noted on the mounts, I might consider swapping again.
The mechanic closest to me did not use a torque wrench so I was careful to not let him overtighten the engine mount bolt. Got some loctite on too. Next time I got to another garage I'll ask them to re-torque everything. Or I might just buy a torque wrench and do it myself.
This model has an oil cooler but no fan on it. However your comment prompted me to check that the cooler is indeed working. I just got it cleaned up with some compressed air and some engine flush. Will check temps with a laser thermometer.
Does this bike have a thermostat valve for the oil cooler?
Love jugs seem very cool, it would be perfect for the stop and go traffic. However they're quite expensive, by the time I add shipping and import duty, the price has almost doubled.
And yes I do start the bike in neutral most of the time. Sometimes neutral is quite hard to find though. Thanks for the compression test tip, I will keep that in mind.
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its geared very tall for 45mph.. cruising rpm 2500 to 3000 - won't ever be in 6th at those speeds 6th is for 70 and up.
there are ways to gear it down to operate better at low speeds - love jugs or harley parade fan would help a lot
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Hey Bro!
I read your posts a couple of times and here are my 10cents
Have you changed the oil directly?? All your heat problems are related to OIL/Oilpump/Filter. If you didn´t do that already, take care of a good Synthetic Oil. not only 20W50 you can give a fine 10W60 a chance.
The 'noise' you hear from your engine..... seems to me like a problem I already had last year on my 2010. Lifters..... So that you can sort out try this link
It´s a wining noise similiar to that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MnH9g4UME
If that figures out as your problem don´t operate the bike further. Don´t worry.... you can fix that in the beginning.... :)
mike
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its geared very tall for 45mph.. cruising rpm 2500 to 3000 - won't ever be in 6th at those speeds 6th is for 70 and up.
there are ways to gear it down to operate better at low speeds - love jugs or harley parade fan would help a lot
Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into the gear ratio.
Hey Bro!
I read your posts a couple of times and here are my 10cents
Have you changed the oil directly?? All your heat problems are related to OIL/Oilpump/Filter. If you didn´t do that already, take care of a good Synthetic Oil. not only 20W50 you can give a fine 10W60 a chance.
The 'noise' you hear from your engine..... seems to me like a problem I already had last year on my 2010. Lifters..... So that you can sort out try this link
It´s a wining noise similiar to that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MnH9g4UME
If that figures out as your problem don´t operate the bike further. Don´t worry.... you can fix that in the beginning.... :)
mike
I have since then changed the oil (Harley SAE 50) but haven't had a chance to try riding the bike for a long time, hitting traffic, etc. I also cleaned the oil cooler and made sure it was running at high temp with a laser thermometer.
The noise on my bike sounds different. It's more of a clapping noise. But I will double check and report if it does indeed sound the same.
Thanks for your help everyone, keep'em coming!
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Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into the gear ratio.
I have since then changed the oil (Harley SAE 50) but haven't had a chance to try riding the bike for a long time, hitting traffic, etc. I also cleaned the oil cooler and made sure it was running at high temp with a laser thermometer.
The noise on my bike sounds different. It's more of a clapping noise. But I will double check and report if it does indeed sound the same.
Thanks for your help everyone, keep'em coming!
These motors call for SYNTHETIC oil. Synthetic stands up to heat much better than Dino oil. My bike seems to like Redline synthetic 20W60. Clapping type sound could be the compensator, a problematic item in some CVO's.
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my 2 cents is, it needs a compensator... all four that I replaced on my 13 RG kicked back when starting and each one made its own noise of some sort
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my 2 cents is, it needs a compensator... all four that I replaced on my 13 RG kicked back when starting and each one made its own noise of some sort
Agree!!
First thing I thought when I saw the video on the starting issue " Compensator " mine was doing the same thing blowing back out the intake also exhaust back fires.
New compensator it no longer does any of the above.
The oil in the intake you may need to pull the rocker covers and check the CCP release dieiframs between the rocker shafts if they are faulty they'll let oil be pulled into the intake
My 3 pents worth
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how is the battery? when my battery was getting low, i would get that when trying to start sometimes. after i replaced the battery, went away. in my case, it wasn't doing it as often as yours, and i also had the battery actually die on me after stopping one time, requiring that i replace it.
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how is the battery? when my battery was getting low, i would get that when trying to start sometimes. after i replaced the battery, went away. in my case, it wasn't doing it as often as yours, and i also had the battery actually die on me after stopping one time, requiring that i replace it.
Had same problem on my ‘07 and took it to dealer thinking compensator. Tech came back with printout indicating bad battery. I didn’t believe him as I always kept it on tender and it really didn’t seem sluggish when cranking. But I did get a new battery a few weeks later and lo and behold the starting problem was resolved.
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Had same problem on my ‘07 and took it to dealer thinking compensator. Tech came back with printout indicating bad battery. I didn’t believe him as I always kept it on tender and it really didn’t seem sluggish when cranking. But I did get a new battery a few weeks later and lo and behold the starting problem was resolved.
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That is true as well a low cranking Voltage can create starting issues. By using a volt tester you can eliminate the battery.
A good battery fully charged would be around 12.5 to 12.8 volts
To check the cranking Voltage put the tester on the battery positive to positive negative to negative then looking at the tester hit the starter,....at the point of starter engagement the tester will drop from the 12.5/8 volts to NO LOWER then 10.5 volts.
It's best to do the test with the plug wires pulled, if the battery Voltage drops straight away under 10.5V change the battery .
On my 07 Ultra I'm on my second battery and it's in its (5) fifth year now
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The battery is fine, it was changed in December and when tested it showed normal charging levels.
However, I did have a problem with the battery not charging. The battery charging and engine warning light came on. Turned out I needed a new stator rotor, it was busted.
After that, battery charging warning light went away.
The only times I have the smoke coming out on failed start is when the engine is very hot. On a cold engine, bike starts immediately.
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The battery is fine, it was changed in December and when tested it showed normal charging levels.
However, I did have a problem with the battery not charging. The battery charging and engine warning light came on. Turned out I needed a new stator rotor, it was busted.
After that, battery charging warning light went away.
The only times I have the smoke coming out on failed start is when the engine is very hot. On a cold engine, bike starts immediately.
That's exactly what mine did good on cold starts except for the odd times an exhaust back fire.
But when hot I never knew how it was going to start,...sometime straight away,..sometime crank, crank, crank,.....or miss fire back thru the intake. (Smokin) made people's heads turn ;)
Since I've changed the compensator I don't have any more starting issues. This is not to say a new compensator would fix your problem but the symtoms your describing are very similar.
Let us know how you get on.
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^^^ yup :2vrolijk_21:
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The oil in the intake you may need to pull the rocker covers and check the CCP release dieiframs between the rocker shafts if they are faulty they'll let oil be pulled into the intake
My 3 pents worth
It's been a little while but believe it or not, I am still chasing this issue.
Turns out I may have bought a lemon...
Anyway, when you talked about the CCP diaphragm, I didn't quite understand what you meant. My mechanic mentioned this problem as the breather diaphragm being busted (I got somehow lost in translation between Indonesian and English).
So this is what I did so far:
- Changed the oil to Harley SAE60
- Got the bike re-mapped to run leaner
The issue diminished slightly but is still there. The coughing through the air cleaner still happens but much less and it's not as difficult to start back.
The overheating issues still persist: if I ride around for a while and then hit some stop and go traffic (happens all the time in Jakarta), the bike will stall when I stop.
After more researches, I went back to my mechanic to investigate further. We looked at the condition of various sensors, they seemed to be fine. We checked the error codes both on the odometer and by hooking up the bike to the computer: none. That's when he got the idea of spraying carb cleaner near the intake ports on the cylinder: it got sucked right in and the engine died.
So he pulled everything out and indeed the seals at the intakes were in poor condition. We also took this opportunity to change the breather diaphragms. But we also found something very interesting: the electric connector to the IAC was rubbish. It seems that the previous owner had to change this part but couldn't find the right male socket so he hacked it together and "sealed" the hole with silicon.
So the mechanic is cleaning up the intake assembly including the IAC, sensors and injectors, changing the seals, putting new diaphragm and seals on the breather and changing the connector to the IAC. Then we will test and see if there is any progress.
I will report back.
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2 more things:
1. About the compensator: when the mechanic changed the stator, he checked the compensator and did not notice anything wrong with it.
2. About the clapping noise, this is more what my bike sounds like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9jBj7WoZc
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to run at 45mph and in stop and go traffic in temps above 70f you REALLY REALLY need a cooling fan. HD made one, there are aftermarket ones. but everything you comment about screams "too hot" i resisted a fan for years - finally put one on my 2007 in 2008 - should have done that first thing on my 2001.. when it gets hot the fan runs and the engine calms right down, if you go to start it and the fan instantly comes on its heat soaked. the fan will run continuously till it cools down - there IS a downside to the fan, it does not charge "at all" when the fan is running at idle, you need to be moving to charge. if you keep overheating it you will spend a PILE of money fixing the engine - its air cooled and not designed to run at very low speeds - 45 is fine as long as the rpm is kept up, but stop and go will really overheat the engine. valve guides, valve seals, cylinders, pistons, bearings, can all be cooked but operating at too low a speed in too high a temp. HD 50 is fine - but its only good for a couple thousand miles at high temp. in the 70's one 100 degree day and change the oil. if the oil smells burnt - change it. the oil change intervals in the manual are for "normal" use - not stop and go in heat.
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to run at 45mph and in stop and go traffic in temps above 70f you REALLY REALLY need a cooling fan. HD made one, there are aftermarket ones. but everything you comment about screams "too hot" i resisted a fan for years - finally put one on my 2007 in 2008 - should have done that first thing on my 2001.. when it gets hot the fan runs and the engine calms right down, if you go to start it and the fan instantly comes on its heat soaked. the fan will run continuously till it cools down - there IS a downside to the fan, it does not charge "at all" when the fan is running at idle, you need to be moving to charge. if you keep overheating it you will spend a PILE of money fixing the engine - its air cooled and not designed to run at very low speeds - 45 is fine as long as the rpm is kept up, but stop and go will really overheat the engine. valve guides, valve seals, cylinders, pistons, bearings, can all be cooked but operating at too low a speed in too high a temp. HD 50 is fine - but its only good for a couple thousand miles at high temp. in the 70's one 100 degree day and change the oil. if the oil smells burnt - change it. the oil change intervals in the manual are for "normal" use - not stop and go in heat.
I understand however I've met people with the same bike in Jakarta and they have no such trouble and no cooling fans either.
I agree that running fans would be better but they are not readily available here (which boggles the mind, considering the conditions) and very expensive to import.
So for now, I would like to at least fix the problem.
Something else I've noticed recently while playing around with the tuning software at my usual garage (they use Techno Research Centurion/DirectLink :
The ECM part number listed is 32498-05A (2006 V-Rod).
However the correct parts number for a 2006 FLHTCUSE is 32852-06 or 32534-11.
Could this be the source of my troubles?
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Although, while the diagnostic software shows the "wrong" part number for the ECM, it does show the correct VIN.
How is this possible? I have very little understanding of this.
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exactly what year is the bike??
a bunch of years look the same - but the problems are more year specific. not to mention all the mind boggling detail changes from year to year.
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It's a 2006 bike.
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My money is still on compensator. You can't always tell it is bad by just looking at it. Check spring stack height. Springs get weak. It will also make more noise during hot starts as you described.
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My money is still on compensator. You can't always tell it is bad by just looking at it. Check spring stack height. Springs get weak. It will also make more noise during hot starts as you described.
Thank you for your feedback.
The starting issues when hot aren't so bad anymore.
The most pressing problem is losing idle when hot. Could this also be due to a bad compensator?
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Thank you for your feedback.
The starting issues when hot aren't so bad anymore.
The most pressing problem is losing idle when hot. Could this also be due to a bad compensator?
I doubt the compensator would effect the idle. There is a cold idle and a hot idle setting. Maybe the tune and idle settings? I know little to nothing about tuning. There are some very knowledgeable people on this site that can probably point you in the right direction . Good luck
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I doubt the compensator would effect the idle. There is a cold idle and a hot idle setting. Maybe the tune and idle settings? I know little to nothing about tuning. There are some very knowledgeable people on this site that can probably point you in the right direction . Good luck
I'm looking into tuning the bike at the moment. Might just bring it to a tuner and see exactly what's going on.
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Check intake seals for leaks, these will cause idle issues.
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Check intake seals for leaks, these will cause idle issues.
Absolutely will. Chased an idle problem for months after being told by dealer tech they were checked and verified not leaking. Another tech at sister dealership finally found what he called a small intake leak. What had caused significant problems was easily remedied after correct diagnosis.
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We did diagnose an intake seal leak and replaced said seals. But the idling when hot issue persists.
It's possible it wasn't reassembled properly, I'll check again.
When bringing the bike at the tuner, he should be able to check for a lean condition by measuring actual AFR at the exhaust, right ?