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[SPIDERMAN]

The typist version of tongue tied. Can't think of anything to say  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Imagine that

B B

[Grover]

The typist version of tongue tied. Can't think of anything to say  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Imagine that

B B

How about this Big B.

[size=36]Harley Trivia[/size]

Lets start easy......

Who are the founding fathers of HD?

[naitram]

let me think there were 3 of them

was it
moe, larry, and curly?
hewie, dewie, and lewie?

[Grover]

Ok we'll make it real simple....

Who was the founding father of CVO HARLEY.com [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[Twolanerider]

let me think there were 3 of them

was it
moe, larry, and curly?
hewie, dewie, and lewie?

Twolane, Rog, and TC?

[naitram]

Ok we'll make it real simple....

Who was the founding father of CVO HARLEY.com [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

damn, i'm drawing a blank on that one

[Twolanerider]

damn, i'm drawing a blank on that one

Definitely, Curly!

[Grover]

Twolane, Rog, and TC?

Oh my goodness I now believe in reincarnation!

[Grover]

In the early nineteen hundreds a very popular bike was the ''Silent Grey Fellow"

Where did the name of this bike come from?

[Twolanerider]

In the early nineteen hundreds a very popular bike was the ''Silent Grey Fellow"

Where did the name of this bike come from?

This one I do know.  1912-ish.  Silencing hardware in the engine and drivetrain to make the bikes less noisy.  It was the advertising campaign and nickname for the bike.

[Grover]

This one I do know.  1912-ish.  Silencing hardware in the engine and drivetrain to make the bikes less noisy.  It was the advertising campaign and nickname for the bike.

That may be partialy true but the real story is....William Harley was a reserved man whose hair turned grey at an earley age, he was affectionately known as ''The Silent Grey Fellow'' by the other founders. And because he was the company's chief engineer, the Davidson brothers nicknamed Harley's latest motorcycle in his honor.

[Grover]

When did HD make their first Vtwin [smiley=confused5.gif]

[Fired00d]

Starting w/the Knucklehead what year and what where the motors name from then to present, and why were they named such?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Fired00d]

Heh, anybody noticed BB is no longer here???

Maybe he's gone to get some Makers to loosen up his fingers.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Twolanerider]

When did HD make their first Vtwin [smiley=confused5.gif]

A better question; when did they make the first one that was right upon initial release?

[Twolanerider]

Starting w/the Knucklehead what year and what where the motors name from then to present, and why were they named such?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Names of the knuckleheads?  You still talking about Twolane, Rog and TC  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] ?

[Fired00d]

Starting w/the Knucklehead what year and what where the motors name from then to present, and why were they named such?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[smiley=oops.gif] Maybe we should start w/the Flathead and proceed from there.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Fired00d]

Names of the knuckleheads?  You still talking about Twolane, Rog and TC  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] ?

[smiley=oops.gif] You said that I didn't. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Grover]

A better question; when did they make the first one that was right upon initial release?

 [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]...1909 HD released it's first Vtwin. They did not produce a twin for 1910!! But it came back in 1911 to stay...

[Fired00d]

Want to take a MoCo trivia quiz? Click here - Harley-Davidson Trivia Quiz

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

Heh, anybody noticed BB is no longer here???

Maybe he's gone to get some Makers to loosen up his fingers.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Nope,
        Talkin to Otis on the phone. If you can't talk to Otis, you can't talk to anyone. Judgin from the good spirits he was in, I'd say things a going ok in the holla. Anyway, he got me loosened up a bit.

[Grover]

Starting w/the Knucklehead what year and what where the motors name from then to present, and why were they named such?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Flat head 45 ?-48, Knuckle head 48-?, Pan head, Shovel head, EVO Big head, Twin cam ? head, Revolution liquid head.

Heads namesake from what they resembled...Not for sure on all years

[Fired00d]

..... If you can't talk to Otis, you can't talk to anyone......

That is so very true. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

[smiley=oops.gif] Maybe we should start w/the Flathead and proceed from there.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Yeah that's better

Flathead, Knucklehead, Panhead, PanShovel Shovelhead, Blockhead (Evo) and Fathead (Twincam) and I'd guess the V-Rod "Revolution" would be the Wethead  

B B

 

[Grover]

Want to take a MoCo trivia quiz? Click here - Harley-Davidson Trivia Quiz

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

 That was too easy 10/10

[Fired00d]

Yeah that's better

Flathead, Knucklehead, Panhead, PanShovel Shovelhead, Blockhead (Evo) and Fathead (Twincam) and I'd guess the V-Rod "Revolution" would be the Wethead  

B B

 

Excellent!!  Now can someone tell us why they were named that and what year/s each motor was produced?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Fired00d]

 That was too easy 10/10

Try this one - The Awesome Harley-Davidson Quiz.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Fired00d]

Excellent!!  Now can someone tell us why they were named that and what year/s each motor was produced?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[smiley=oops.gif] I see Mark already answered this. I didn't scroll back far enough.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
RIde Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

Excellent!!  Now can someone tell us why they were named that and what year/s each motor was produced?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

d00d
         Grover's post had a bunch of question marks, so here's my best guess. I'm not 100% sure as I'm doing this from memory as opposed to grabbing one of 20 or so H-D books sittin less than 10 feet away in the bookrack

Flatheads were the first motors and ran from 1903 to 1932 I believe when the Knuckleheads came out. First year for Panhead was 1948, first year for Shovelhead is a matter of debate because of the Pan-Shovel thing. The first full Shovelhead was 1968 I believe. You had Pan-Shovels from like 65-67  Evo's hit the street "officially in 1984, but there were a bunch of mules out there in 1983 and for whatever reason the MoCo sold them so if anyone ever tells you he/she's got an 83 Evo don't get into an argument over it cause you could be wrong. Twincams first appeared in 99 on the baggers with the Evo line running another year in the cruiser models I think the Revolution first appeared in 2003 That's weird that the most recent one is the fuzziest to me.

B B

[Grover]

Excellent!!  Now can someone tell us why they were named that and what year/s each motor was produced?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

'31-? Flat head, '36-'47 Knucklehead, '48-'66 Panhead, '66-'84 Shovelhead, '84-'98 EVO, '99-present Twincam, '02- present Revolution.

Flat head was flat, Knuckle head looked like knuckles, Panhead looked like a pan, Shovelhead looked like a shovel, EVO Bighead/blockhead, twincam fathead.

[Grover]

Try this one - The Awesome Harley-Davidson Quiz.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

11/15

[Twolanerider]

'48-'66 Panhead, '66-'84 Shovelhead,

 Can't forget the PanShovel cross breeds.

[BLM777]

d00d
         Grover's post had a bunch of question marks, so here's my best guess. I'm not 100% sure as I'm doing this from memory as opposed to grabbing one of 20 or so H-D books sittin less than 10 feet away in the bookrack

Flatheads were the first motors and ran from 1903 to 1932 I believe when the Knuckleheads came out. First year for Panhead was 1948, first year for Shovelhead is a matter of debate because of the Pan-Shovel thing. The first full Shovelhead was 1968 I believe. You had Pan-Shovels from like 65-67  Evo's hit the street "officially in 1984, but there were a bunch of mules out there in 1983 and for whatever reason the MoCo sold them so if anyone ever tells you he/she's got an 83 Evo don't get into an argument over it cause you could be wrong. Twincams first appeared in 99 on the baggers with the Evo line running another year in the cruiser models [highlight]I think the Revolution first appeared in 2003 That's weird that the most recent one is the fuzziest to me.[/highlight]

B B

That's 'cause you're a 100 years older than when the flatheads came out..... ooooops.....[smiley=lipsrsealed2.gif]

[Hoist!]

Try this one - The Awesome Harley-Davidson Quiz.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

That was a little better d00d.  12/15. How the hell am I supposed to know how to spell Roeder. Hoist!  8-)

[djkak]

Excellent!!  Now can someone tell us why they were named that and what year/s each motor was produced?

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

Hey, wait a minute….what about the 1948 and later 2 stroke; snowmobile; 2 and 4 stroke Italian stuff; golf cart; K model; and XL’s. There are sub categories by performance and displacement, not to mention race bikes.

For what it’s worth, I am not aware of any factory production overlap between the Pan and Shovel. The last model year for the Panhead was also the first production year for the Electra Glide; 1965. There may be some confusion between the Pan and Shovel because of the generator crankcase used by the Shovel from 1966 through 1969.

The 63 and later Pan and Shovelhead top ends were a simple “bolt on” interchange if you also changed the tappet blocks, pushrods and covers. You also needed to accommodate the differences in the top end oiling, which was a minor issue. Top end oiling was more of a challenge on pre 63 Panheads being updated to Shovelhead crankcases.

As I remember it, the terms Pan-Shovel or Shovel-Pan came from the folks running Panheads; usually Choppers, who swapped out the Panhead top end for a Shovelhead. This was commonly done in the 1970’s. Any Panhead machine that you see running around with a Shovelhead top end is not a regular production built Motorcycle.  

djkak

[Hoist!]

Hey, wait a minute….what about the 1948 and later 2 stroke; snowmobile; 2 and 4 stroke Italian stuff; golf cart; K model; and XL’s. There are sub categories by performance and displacement, not to mention race bikes.

For what it’s worth, I am not aware of any factory production overlap between the Pan and Shovel. The last model year for the Panhead was also the first production year for the Electra Glide; 1965. There may be some confusion between the Pan and Shovel because of the generator crankcase used by the Shovel from 1966 through 1969.

The 63 and later Pan and Shovelhead top ends were a simple “bolt on” interchange if you also changed the tappet blocks, pushrods and covers. You also needed to accommodate the differences in the top end oiling, which was a minor issue. Top end oiling was more of a challenge on pre 63 Panheads being updated to Shovelhead crankcases.

As I remember it, the terms Pan-Shovel or Shovel-Pan came from the folks running Panheads; usually Choppers, who swapped out the Panhead top end for a Shovelhead. This was commonly done in the 1970’s. Any Panhead machine that you see running around with a Shovelhead top end is not a regular production built Motorcycle.  

djkak

Hey DJ, what's up? Man, I know who to call when I need any old HD info! My friend's still ridin' his pan-shovel chopper and still getting handlebar height tickets with it (he's always last too)! Hoist!  8-)

[Twolanerider]

The 63 and later Pan and Shovelhead top ends were a simple “bolt on” interchange if you also changed the tappet blocks, pushrods and covers. You also needed to accommodate the differences in the top end oiling, which was a minor issue. Top end oiling was more of a challenge on pre 63 Panheads being updated to Shovelhead crankcases.

As I remember it, the terms Pan-Shovel or Shovel-Pan came from the folks running Panheads; usually Choppers, who swapped out the Panhead top end for a Shovelhead. This was commonly done in the 1970’s. Any Panhead machine that you see running around with a Shovelhead top end is not a regular production built Motorcycle.  

Sorry DJ, didn't mean to suggest they were factory supplied.  Just that they were so common, at least for awhile, it's hard not to count them in the heritage.

[djkak]

Sorry DJ, didn't mean to suggest they were factory supplied.  Just that they were so common, at least for awhile, it's hard not to count them in the heritage.

Check.  

djkak

[djkak]

Hey DJ, what's up? Man, I know who to call when I need any old HD info! My friend's still ridin' his pan-shovel chopper and still getting handlebar height tickets with it (he's always last too)! Hoist!  8-)

This retro thing isn't getting any easier to do, especially when you consider that I am going out tonight to kill a couple more brain cells. I am always reminding myself to save a few brain cells for the home stretch.

djkak
  

[ccr]

Three whole pages of chatter when there was nothing to say.

How about just sitting, quietly together, comfortable enough in our own skins that no talk is needed.  

Just don't look at the top 40 thread tonight.  I have not been around a lot lately and it is showing.  

[Twolanerider]

How about just sitting, quietly together, comfortable enough in our own skins that no talk is needed.  

A woman that doesn't want to talk.  No wonder Mr. We is in love.

[RJ749]

[highlight]Just don't look at the top 40 thread tonight[/highlight].  I have not been around a lot lately and it is showing.  

What, I didn't notice anything :-/ :

 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]10 [/highlight] CVO / Other Topics / Re: d00d's Hip Replacement
 on: Yesterday at 11:05pm  
Started by hard10 | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
  Gary, Jamey and I are wishing you a quick and painless surgery and a speedier recovery.  Can't wait till we get together again, riding like we aught to.  Can't believe it almost here already.  Good Luck and all our best wishes and lots and lots of love.      
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]11 [/highlight] CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: New from VA
 on: Yesterday at 10:58pm  
Started by 07_Flhrse3 | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.     There are just a ton of us Virginians on this site.  Amazing we don't see very much of each other.  Let's keep our calendars open for 07 and get a contingent of CVOs together for a ride next year!    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]12  [/highlight]CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: New in SC area
 on: Yesterday at 10:55pm  
Started by tigertr71 | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]13 [/highlight] CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: newbie from Dallas, GA
 on: Yesterday at 10:54pm  
Started by dereck | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]14[/highlight]  CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: New Member in PAC NW
 on: Yesterday at 10:53pm  
Started by RGL | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]15 [/highlight] CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: Hello from KC
 on: Yesterday at 10:52pm  
Started by 07SEUC_KC |[highlight] Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
You gotta meet up with us when we get together for a tour/ride/steak in April.  A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]16[/highlight]  CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: New member from Arctic Norway
 on: Yesterday at 10:50pm  
Started by dagbre | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]17[/highlight]  CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: Just stopin in to say hello!
 on: Yesterday at 10:47pm  
Started by Cabo | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome Back to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 
Glad to see you around again, been missing that avatar!  
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]18 [/highlight] CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: Hello
 on: Yesterday at 10:46pm  
Started by onebadcvospringer |[highlight] Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    
 Reply  Quote  Notify of replies    

[highlight]19  [/highlight]CVO / New Member Introduction / Re: New Member from Round Rock, TX here..
 on: Yesterday at 10:45pm  
Started by HDCrazy | [highlight]Post by Mrs.WeCVO [/highlight]
A Great Big CVO Welcome to you,    glad you found your way here.    

[ccr]

   Man, it musta been quite around here for the past three weeks.    

But I am comfortable in my own skin that I don't have to talk just to hear myself    

[Twolanerider]

 Man, it musta been quite around here for the past three weeks.    

But I am comfortable in my own skin that I don't have to talk just to hear myself    

 [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=whip.gif]  She shoots, she scores !!   [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[Ghost Rider]

[highlight]A better question; when did they make the first one that was right upon initial release?[/highlight]

We're still waiting for this one aren't we?

[djkak]

A better question; when did they make the first one that was right upon initial release?

We're still waiting for this one aren't we?

Yippie….more trivia; the category today is field fixes and updates. The 1965 Electra Glide was not initially equipped with a Starter Relay or primary housing vent. This resulted in issues with burnt out starter buttons and oil soaked clutches. Field updates were available for these Motorcycles. I believe that the early electric start machines were also equipped with a Delco starter which was later changed out for a Prestolite.

Early 1970 Shovels had the circuit breaker cam redesigned to inhibit the formation of holes in the pistons.

When HD introduced the 1000 cc XL in 72, the bore was increased by 3/16” yet the headbolt pattern remained unchanged. The reduced cross section of the cylinder resulted in substantial cylinder distortion and robust oil consumption. This was addressed in mid 1973 production by increasing the diameter of the headbolt pattern. The headbolts were also changed from 9/16” hex head to 3/8” 12 point.

Pre 73 XL’s with trans drive speedos were famous for purging the speedo drive components right through the lower right area of the transmission housing.  

Early 1973 XL’s were subject to frame breakage which was addressed with a field fix that involved welding in a pair of struts.

Speaking of 1973, the DOT mandated that Motorcycles manufactured after Jan 1, 1973 had to be equipped with turn signals and the tail light had to meet a new DOT spec. Sportster CH’s and some others built prior to Jan-73 did not have turn signals, and all XL’s and BT’s were equipped with the smaller style tail light used from 1955 & up. Early 1973 production XL,s had no turn signals; different tail light; different cylinders and heads and a different frame.

In 1974, there were substantial issues with the one piece, chrome plated oil control rings used in the Shovels. The chrome would peel off the oil ring, scoring the cylinder and lubricating the inside of the exhaust pipe.

I believe that 1975 was the year the rear disc brakes were fit with different master cylinder rubber components; caliper pistons and DOT-5 fluid. The early brakes would boil the DOT-3 fluid rendering the brake inoperative. I believe that there was a recall which affected 1974 and 1975 models.

In 1979 there was a tendency for XL’s to purge mainshaft 3rd gear through the back of the transmission housing.

From 1970 through 1979, it was not common for the mechanical advance mechanism to stick in the advanced position, resulting in frequent starter clutch failure.

Ratchet-lid 4 speeds were famous for “lifting” the top cover off the housing whenever a drive chain broke.  

Other than that, things were pretty good. As always, this bit of trivia and $4 will get you a fabulous cup of genuine Starbucks coffee.

djkak

[Twolanerider]

I believe that 1975 was the year the rear disc brakes were fit with different master cylinder rubber components; caliper pistons and DOT-5 fluid. The early brakes would boil the DOT-3 fluid rendering the brake inoperative. I believe that there was a recall which affected 1974 and 1975 models.

Unlike a lot who have to use it regularly I never disliked DOT5.  Though with the way it carries moisture content to low spots and then leaves it behind, or the hassles it can present in bleeding if it gets at all stirred up, the product could be a chore to work with now or maintain later.  But hey, higher boiling points are higher boiling points.  So if the need it you use what you have to.  Sure was nice to see 5.1 though.  Still don't want to spill it on paint.  But higher boiling points wet and dry and none of the hassles perhaps too occasionally presented by silicone.  Since you can chase DOT 3 or 4 with it the install/use is easy too.  Sometimes this whole progress thing actually works out.

[djkak]

Twolane,

I remember the fluid thing a little differently; my failing memory recalls that the DOT-3 had an affinity for moisture, resulting in the rust, corrosion, general crap and corruption issues which were common to the early machinery. It is my understanding that DOT-5 will not harm painted finishes or corrode internals; DOT-3 and DOT-4 will harm a painted finish.

As I recall, the DOT-5 master cylinders and calipers require different rubber components than their earlier DOT-3 or current DOT-4 counterpart’s use. DOT-5’s affinity for air does result in some loss of firmness in the controls. I believe that the timing of HD’s switch to DOT-4 is related to the offering of the anti-lock option on the Police machines. I thought I heard that DOT-5 was somewhat unsuitable for anti-lock applications.

I recall seeing an anti-lock machine awhile back. As I remember it, the controller and plumbing occupied around 30%ish of the available right saddlebag space; no more room for momma’s hair dryer. The truth be known, momma carries a lot of my crap in a big T-Bag on her machine when we are on the road.

On the subject of progress, it’s interesting to note that Lucas-Girling replaced Kelsey-Hayes, the original banana caliper folks, as the Vendor for HD’s brakes in the early 80’s.  As anyone who rode HD’s in this era knows, the Lucas-Girling brakes were a substantial improvement over the Kelsey-Hayes units. A decade earlier, the British company Lucas, was famous for producing crap-like electrical components for Auto and Motorcycle applications.  Fast forward to 2000 and Hayes is back in the game with a brake that is a substantial improvement over the Girling units.

This brake fluid business is a bunch of hocus-pocus any way! I subscribe to the “safety with steel from pedal to wheel: theory.

Have a good weekend.

djkak

[Twolanerider]

Twolane,

I remember the fluid thing a little differently; my failing memory recalls that the DOT-3 had an affinity for moisture, resulting in the rust, corrosion, general crap and corruption issues which were common to the early machinery. It is my understanding that DOT-5 will not harm painted finishes or corrode internals; DOT-3 and DOT-4 will harm a painted finish.

As I recall, the DOT-5 master cylinders and calipers require different rubber components than their earlier DOT-3 or current DOT-4 counterpart’s use. DOT-5’s affinity for air does result in some loss of firmness in the controls. I believe that the timing of HD’s switch to DOT-4 is related to the offering of the anti-lock option on the Police machines. I thought I heard that DOT-5 was somewhat unsuitable for anti-lock applications.

There are pros and cons both ways DJ.  Your right that one big benefit of the silicone based DOT5 is that it won't harm paint if you spill it.  DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 all have the potential to harm the finish.  

To me always the biggest hassle of DOT 5 was the way it entrained air.  Will carry air bubbles in the fluid when it gets stirred up even a little.  When that happens bleeding won't help because the air is not separate from the fluid.  You just have to pour carefully.  That's also why the stuff can not be used on an ABS system.  The pump in the ABS system will agitate the fluid.

Both DOT5 and the hygroscopic DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 fluids all have "water issues."  They just have different issues.  The hygroscopic fluids, as the name suggests, absorb moisture.  Any time your cylinder cover comes off, with the humidity latent before a system is closed, and in many other ways there will always be some moisture that gets inside the system.  When the fluid is hygroscopic it's absorbed in, mixed throughout, carried with the pressure system and does the kinds of damage to cylinders or line we're all familiar with.  It does that damage, that is, if the fluid is left in for a long time and the system is never flushed.  

The silicone stuff, however, doesn't absorb moisture.  Instead it carries it along entrained.  The result of that is that any water then falls off at whatever is the lowest point.  The downside to that is that from there it never comes out; even with a change in the fluid.

With DOT3, for example, the old water goes out with the fluid when you flush the system every couple of years.  With DOT5 it stays at that lowest point in the caliper (or wherever the lowest point is).  Fluid is pushed right over it.  The bleeders are up on the top of the calipers so the water won't come out with gravity either.  Uunless you remove a caliper and bleed it upside down the water just can't be removed from the system. On some cars where the caliper isn't always the only low point some water just can't be removed.

Since there are pros and cons both ways it just means there is no absolute "easy" answer.  Since the biggest hazard to the "regular" stuff is the threat of paint damage it means we just have to be careful if we use it.  The "regular" stuff never has the pain-in-the-butt bleeding issues and the other potential (but really lesser) problems that also go along with DOT5.  Since 5.1 now also has boiling points as high as DOT I've stopped messing with DOT5 even on the old classic cars.  And that was the only place I ever messed with it anyway.

Man oh man, we are iced in here this weekend DJ.  Nasty weather outside and football inside.  If it wasn't for brake fluid to talk about I'd be as bored right now as the Italian Greyhound passed out behind me  [smiley=drink.gif] .

[djkak]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Twolane. I see that the brake fluid folks are debating amongst themselves a little. Prior to this, I was of the persuasion that silicone was the feline’s posterior, hands down.

Hydroscopic properties place new meaning on the “sealed container” warning. An open quart of DOT-4 might quickly attain moisture saturation in South Florida. The DOT-4 fluid change interval makes more sense now. I’m thinking that hydroscopic could also describe my magnetic attraction to beer.

Silicone fluid has had a good run, but I can see it may be time to shift gears. Even the Breast Implant folks are moving away from silicone in favor of materials which provide the rider with improved feel and feedback.

On the topic of old cars and brakes, the kindest thing that you could say about the brakes on my 67 Malibu was that they were offered. I had a 2DHT with a 275 HP 327/ 4 speed. If you were running over 100 mph and blasted the brakes, the front end would dive for a moment, then come right back up. If there was something in your way, you better be able to drive around it. I think Fred Flintstone has better brakes than that car did.

djkak

[Twolanerider]

On the topic of old cars and brakes, the kindest thing that you could say about the brakes on my 67 Malibu was that they were offered.

Oh man, that gave me a small beverage spew DJ.  That was good.  My old cars are all pretty much stock.  I say pretty much because while I like that look and feel I make concessions to better audio and to brakes.  They've all got disk.  The vette and the t-bird on the front, the big 409 Impala will have them all the way around when it's done same as the 396 66 El Camino.  The old brakes we used to survive just make you pucker when you think about them today.

Man, if you stop and think about it though the brakes weren't even the worst of it.  If you ever get the chance hop behind the wheel of some big heavy 50s or 60s vintage car with a good sized motor whose owner is so in to "vintage" that he still runs nylon or bias ply tires on it.  I swear you can't keep 'em between the white lines.  How we ever survived being teenagers driving that stuff the way it got driven I have no idea   !

[Twolanerider]

Silicone fluid has had a good run, but I can see it may be time to shift gears. Even the Breast Implant folks are moving away from silicone in favor of materials which provide the rider with improved feel and feedback.

I want the job as "Application Materials System Tester."  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[djkak]

I want the job as "Application Materials System Tester."  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

I’m thinking that field inspector would also be a rewarding career; although getting paid with a sack full of singles might be a bit of a pain.

djkak