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[Jswerve]

New street legal 120 to be put in future bikes?

Details here;

http://www.baggersmag.com/harley-davidsons-new-120st-touring-motor-riding-exclusive?src=SOC&dom=fb

[tweeter13]

Well then I will add another one to the stable most likley.   
Todd

[charles05663]

Looks like they changed the location of the CAT:

But Tony and his cronies in the Screamin’ Eagle department didn’t stop there. They also created a calibration for the 120ST and packed each muffler with catalytic converters instead of the headers to increase flow. “One of the key things of this performance exhaust system is that typically the Touring bikes come with the cat in the header system,” Tony states. “Well, you don’t get as good of flow with the cat in the header system—it’s somewhat restrictive—so what we did was put the cats in the mufflers, and they’re much bigger at the muffler. We also increased the inlet at the muffler so all of that combined creates much better flow but all still compliant.

Ummm...I wonder how quick the mufflers will be switched out.

 

[Jswerve]

Looks like they changed the location of the CAT:

But Tony and his cronies in the Screamin’ Eagle department didn’t stop there. They also created a calibration for the 120ST and packed each muffler with catalytic converters instead of the headers to increase flow. “One of the key things of this performance exhaust system is that typically the Touring bikes come with the cat in the header system,” Tony states. “Well, you don’t get as good of flow with the cat in the header system—it’s somewhat restrictive—so what we did was put the cats in the mufflers, and they’re much bigger at the muffler. We also increased the inlet at the muffler so all of that combined creates much better flow but all still compliant.

Ummm...I wonder how quick the mufflers will be switched out.

 

At least you won't have to ditch the headpipe 

[Mano]

Looks like they changed the location of the CAT:

But Tony and his cronies in the Screamin’ Eagle department didn’t stop there. They also created a calibration for the 120ST and packed each muffler with catalytic converters instead of the headers to increase flow. “One of the key things of this performance exhaust system is that typically the Touring bikes come with the cat in the header system,” Tony states. “Well, you don’t get as good of flow with the cat in the header system—it’s somewhat restrictive—so what we did was put the cats in the mufflers, and they’re much bigger at the muffler. We also increased the inlet at the muffler so all of that combined creates much better flow but all still compliant.

Ummm...I wonder how quick the mufflers will be switched out.

 

I was at the dealer yesterday talking to a mechanic about this.....he said by doing this and something happens to the motor they will NOT honor the warranty.

He said it would be best to put your stock mufflers back on before you take it back.

[GSPLewie]

They honor warranties now with non-stock head pipes and mufflers. That doesn't make much sense to me.

[CVOStreetglide]

New street legal 120 to be put in future bikes?

Details here;

http://www.baggersmag.com/harley-davidsons-new-120st-touring-motor-riding-exclusive?src=SOC&dom=fb

Good catch!!

Many Thanks

Jerry

[Jswerve]

Good catch!!

Many Thanks

Jerry

You're welcome Jerry. That's what this forum is all about (most of the time lol)

Jesse

[CVOStreetglide]

You're welcome Jerry. That's what this forum is all about (most of the time lol)

Jesse

You are right!!

I hope you are getting some riding in now that the weather is better up your way. Too bad i didn't know you were down my way recently. But when you're here again (Jacksonville/Daytona) there's a free steak and some beers with your name on them.

Regards

Jerry

[Jswerve]

You are right!!

I hope you are getting some riding in now that the weather is better up your way. Too bad i didn't know you were down my way recently. But when you're here again (Jacksonville/Daytona) there's a free steak and some beers with your name on them.

Regards

Jerry

Appreciate that Jerry. I'll take you up on the steak but I'm gonna pass on the beers I've been without suds n such since 2012. How about some sweet tea?

Jesse

[CVOStreetglide]

Appreciate that Jerry. I'll take you up on the steak but I'm gonna pass on the beers I've been without suds n such since 2012. How about some sweet tea?

Jesse

DONE!! 

Southern sweet tea is very popular down here. 

I happen to like Arnold Palmer tea. I first learned about it when I was doing consulting work in Chicago of all places.

Jerry

[Jswerve]

DONE!! 

Southern sweet tea is very popular down here. 

JerryI happen to like Arnold Palmer tea. I first learned about it when I was doing consulting work in Chicago of all places.

Sounds good. I won't make it back this year but I will be close. I am driving the wife and kids to Orange Beach, AL in June. Rented a condo on the beach  Right on the west side of the Florida border!

We plan to move to upcountry South Carolina in a couple years though so many Florida visits will be in our future, including bike trips!!!!

Jesse

[CVOStreetglide]

Sounds good. I won't make it back this year but I will be close. I am driving the wife and kids to Orange Beach, AL in June. Rented a condo on the beach  Right on the west side of the Florida border!

We plan to move to upcountry South Carolina in a couple years though so many Florida visits will be in our future, including bike trips!!!!

Jesse

The beach sand down there and on the Florida Panhandle is like white sugar and very soft.

ENJOY YOURSELVES!!

Moving to South Carolina puts you within 3-4 hours from Florida when you are inclined to make the trip. That gives you access to the best both locations have to offer.

There are so many people here in Jacksonville that "winter" here and go to the Carolina mountains for much of the very hot summer to escape the heat.

Take care.

Jerry

[Jswerve]

The beach sand down there and on the Florida Panhandle is like white sugar and very soft.

ENJOY YOURSELVES!!

Moving to South Carolina puts you within 3-4 hours from Florida when you are inclined to make the trip. That gives you access to the best both locations have to offer.

There are so many people here in Jacksonville that "winter" here and go to the Carolina mountains for much of the very hot summer to escape the heat.

Take care.

Jerry

Jerry that is EXACTLY why we are moving there. When we retire we plan to spend a few months in south Florida and return to SC in the spring. We also thought that being 30 mins from the smokies and 3 hours from the Atlantic ocean as well as a half a days drive to Florida doesn't hurt either!

Jesse

[CVOStreetglide]

Jerry that is EXACTLY why we are moving there. When we retire we plan to spend a few months in south Florida and return to SC in the spring. We also thought that being 30 mins from the smokies and 3 hours from the Atlantic ocean as well as a half a days drive to Florida doesn't hurt either!

Jesse

You figured it out already but be sure to consider declaring your Florida place as your Primry residence. NO STATE TAX AND NO ESTATE TAX EITHER unless you are ultra wealthy!!

[JCZ]

I guess our 110s are already on the slate to become obsolete and will loose value over the next couple of years.

[Jswerve]

I guess our 110s are already on the slate to become obsolete and will loose value over the next couple of years.

Yeah that was my first thought as well JCZ. But, that's ok with me. My wife and I agree if this engine fails we plan on just rebuilding it and making it better. We love this thing.

[Jswerve]

You figured it out already but be sure to consider declaring your Florida place as your Primry residence. NO STATE TAX AND NO ESTATE TAX EITHER unless you are ultra wealthy!!

Yeah I have heard that if you stay in Florida for 6 months out of the year you can do that? If so, that would be the plan after retirement. Considering I am only 40 and my wife 38, I don't think we have to worry about that too much right now lol. And we damn sure aren't ultra wealthy! 

[CVOStreetglide]

Yeah I have heard that if you stay in Florida for 6 months out of the year you can do that? If so, that would be the plan after retirement. Considering I am only 40 and my wife 38, I don't think we have to worry about that too much right now lol. And we damn sure aren't ultra wealthy! 

Agreed on your ages verses when you may retire. 

I think besides health care expense and access to good doctors and hospitals, water and it's ever increasing cost and energy as a whole are going to be huge considerations on where you live going forward.

Overall quality of life goes without saying..


FWIW: You can get a good peek at Jacksonville/Ponte Vedra Beach if you are into golf and watch the upcoming TPC at Sawgrass tournament.

[Phantom309]

Looks like a sweet bike and I would love that extra grunt, but no way am I going backwards to 100% air/oil cooled bike again after having the twin-cooled 103. Love the way mine runs and wouldn't even consider buying another new one unless they eventually go 100% liquid cooled while keeping that nostalgic look of the air cooled engines.

[OBB]

Looks like the CARB report is out on this engine.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2015/harleydavidson_m0050208_1962_0d5_hn.pdf

Even available in a Police ROAD GLIDE 

[FLSTFI Dave]

Very interesting, lists all the touring bikes.  Why no CVO?

Is the engine in the touring bikes going to be the same as CVO?

Is it the twin cooled?

[BT]

Just posted to the CARB site under 2015.  Maybe a hint a the 2016s.  If my math is right all these bikes have a 120 cubic inch engine. 
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2015/harleydavidson_m0050208_1962_0d5_hn.pdf

[BT]

and they are regular bikes not CVO.........

[YELLOWBIRD]

"Say it ain't so"! Or "Never say Never"!


Yep, it's for real. Looks like Five-0 motorcycle Cops will soon be jumping into the "TANK"!

And some of the touring rigs will also be enjoying the new 1962cc motors!

Look mid way down in the Harley Davidson section. It will say "new".


YB

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2015/2015.php


 







http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2015/2015.php

[Grizzly]

Kind of glad now that I'm waiting for the 2016's to hit the showroom floor.

[GregKhougaz]

I'm no expert at reading those but it appears that is for the 120TS motor which could be placed into the specified touring models.  I doubt HD intends to use the motor as stock throughout the touring line.     

[lowflight]

Interesting for sure! Wonder if it will be a wet head too?

[FinalShot]

My guess is that it is for the HD 120ST crate they are selling now and just needed the CARB certification so they can sell and install in Calif. Maybe I'm wrong....

Form HD
Fitment for the Screamin’ Eagle SE120ST Performance Crate Engine is:
– 49-state 2015-later Touring models. Does not fit Twin-Cooled™ models.
– Certification is pending for California 2015-later Touring models.
– Certification is also pending for all 50 states 2010 – 2014 Touring models.

[LC110]

I was informed they will be air cooled. Maybe because they are for police use they can run the fuel settings bit richer.

[Jeevz]

I'm no expert but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Right above the signatures on page 2 it says the order is only good for the model year listed which is 2015.  That implies it means the 120ST crate motor that currently exists is approved to install in CA bikes for model year 2015 not that it will be in all the 2016 models listed.  It may be in the '16's but I don't believe that's what this order is saying.

[Afdharley]

Agree with Jeevz. This is just to finish up the 50 state legal 120 crate motor.

Nothing in that report about anything twin cooled.

[grc]

Absolutely as Jeevz noted.  All this pertains to is the 120ST crate engine being approved for use in the listed models.  None of this is about the 2016 models.

Jerry

[FLSTFI Dave]

Ok, this makes sense.

I do wonder if they will put it on some bikes in 16 out of the factory, or maybe even a twin cooled out of the factory for 16.

[ZVO]

Dealers received a notice that 120 engines only come with a 1 year warranty.

[Puma]

 

[grc]

Dealers received a notice that 120 engines only come with a 1 year warranty.

Not surprising, since Harley has some of the shortest warranties in the business.  At least they offer a short warranty on the ST version, the R version has no warranty.  IF they decide the ST is going to be the next CVO engine, they will then have to bump it up to match the rest of the bike's two year warranty.  Still way too little when you consider the price of the product, the quality and reliability history, and the kinds of warranties offered by other bike companies and of course the auto industry. 

Jerry

[ZVO]

Yes extended warranty on a 120 will be extremely necessary

[Cat Eye]

Just curious, Do you think the 110 cvo touring bikes are under powered?

I know its no crotch rocket...and won't do wheelies like Steve's bike.

Other than the marketing "mine is bigger than your's" thing....what will the 120ST in the touring bike bring to the table? 

[JCZ]

OK, all you nay sayers have to keep your 110 until 2020! 

Seriously, I think you'll see it at least in the CVOs in Aug.  They may keep the 110s in the standard line of baggers another year.....then it'll be in all the baggers.  Or, just like everybody else here, I could be totally wrong and it's in all the baggers in Aug. 

[JCZ]

Just curious, Do you think the 110 cvo touring bikes are under powered?

I know its no crotch rocket...and won't do wheelies like Steve's bike.

Other than the marketing "mine is bigger than your's" thing....what will the 120ST in the touring bike bring to the table?

I remember when we went from my Pan/Shovel to an 80" and thought it had so much more power.  Then we experienced it again when they went to 88".  And oh man.....then it was the 96" least we not forget the proven workhorse, the Screamin Eagle 103" (available in CVOs only) and now we have the 110 and looking at the 120 on the horizon.

[charles05663]

I think this is just a beta test before they roll it out as a standard option.  This way they get the power junkies to test and find the bugs for them and hopefully get the customer to pay for the repairs since they only have a one year warranty.

 

[Puma]

Just curious, Do you think the 110 cvo touring bikes are under powered?

I know its no crotch rocket...and won't do wheelies like Steve's bike.

Other than the marketing "mine is bigger than your's" thing....what will the 120ST in the touring bike bring to the table?

When news of this motor first was released there was a torque number in the story that was less than what I got from my 110 with a pipe and tune. I'm sure the same pipe and tune on a 120 would put it above my numbers, but I don't know by how much. I went from a 96 balanced motor to a 110 CVO RK. I'm going to guess that that was a much bigger power difference than what will exist between the 110 and 120. Oh, to answer your first question, no, I don't think the 110 cvo's are underpowered.

[FLH91]

The way I read the first couple paragraphs is the 120ST is now approved as a replacement motor for those 2015 bikes.  An option and/or accessory.  I guess maybe I'm not reading any father into it right now...  Am I wrong?

[CVOStreetglide]

The way I read the first couple paragraphs is the 120ST is now approved as a replacement motor for those 2015 bikes.  An option and/or accessory.  I guess maybe I'm not reading any father into it right now...  Am I wrong?

Only the non-waterheads.  CVO's are now 110 waterheads as of this year.

IF they do the 2016 CVO line with the 120 it will have to be converted to a waterhead.

[OBB]

Only the non-waterheads. CVO's are now 110 waterheads as of this year.

IF they do the 2016 CVO line with the 120 it will have to be converted to a waterhead.

Actually it started with MY 2014. The softail CVO is still an air cooled version.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Just curious, Do you think the 110 cvo touring bikes are under powered?

Yes.  My 2013 CVO King at 2 months old, and 2K miles had the top end torn down, new cams, heads ported and polished, 10.8 compression with the new pistons, 55mm HPI throttle body, and 5.3 injectors.  Lots more reliable power than stock.  I every time I get on my 110 CVO with just pipes and tuner, I feel a serious lacking of power.

So Yea, I think the new CVO should have a twin cooled 120 inch motor, or even a 124.

[Grizzly]

Only the non-waterheads.  CVO's are now 110 waterheads as of this year.

IF they do the 2016 CVO line with the 120 it will have to be converted to a waterhead.

One could easily come to that conclusion, but not necessarily so... Not everyone is sold on the water cooled idea.

[FlaHeatWave]

I think that the 120ST is a great leap forward for the MoCo...

A big Crate Motor with a warranty to rival the S&S 124.

Emission Compliant for OEM. Some have complained about lack of options from the MoCo, evidently somebody in Milwaukee was listening.

I'll be surprised if we don't see a Twin Cooled 120 by the end of this decade, and total liquid cooling (while maintaining the legacy architecture / appearance / sound that we currently enjoy) in the next... 

Will the 110 replace the 103 in the non CVOs, and the 120 become the CVO motor? When???

[ZVO]

I just got a CVO STreet Glide HCC in April so if they release a 120 in June I will be trading up!

[FLH91]

Again, The CARB report was specifically for 120ST replacement motors (accessory) in the 2015 models listed.   How are we jumping so fast to them being in the 2016 lineup?

[fastfreddy]

Again, The CARB report was specifically for 120ST replacement motors (accessory) in the 2015 models listed.   How are we jumping so fast to them being in the 2016 lineup?

  creative minds   

[ZVO]

Again, The CARB report was specifically for 120ST replacement motors (accessory) in the 2015 models listed.   How are we jumping so fast to them being in the 2016 lineup?

Wishful thinking? 

[Fired00d]

Again, The CARB report was specifically for 120ST replacement motors (accessory) in the 2015 models listed.   How are we jumping so fast to them being in the 2016 lineup?

Because Willie G's pool boy said they would be.

 
Ride Safe
Fired00d
 

[JCZ]

This thread reminds me of all the speculation just before the 2003 Road King came out with the 103".   Great entertainment, for sure.   

[Lone Rider]

The real test will be when they roll out and the general public critique them.

[FLH91]

OK, I know we can always trust the pool boy!  Now I understand...
For me, I'd stay far away from the 120ST for at least a year or two until all the "bugs" are worked out.....  For now, a tuned up 110 is great!

[Grizzly]

OK, I know we can always trust the pool boy!  Now I understand...
For me, I'd stay far away from the 120ST for at least a year or two until all the "bugs" are worked out.....  For now, a tuned up 110 is great!

You mean to say, you don't want to be a "beta tester" for the MoCo?

Where's your sense of adventure?

                     

[grc]

OK, I know we can always trust the pool boy!  Now I understand...
For me, I'd stay far away from the 120ST for at least a year or two until all the "bugs" are worked out.....  For now, a tuned up 110 is great!

You mean to say, you don't want to be a "beta tester" for the MoCo?

Where's your sense of adventure?

                     

     I love the "year or two until all the bugs are worked out" statement.  It usually takes Harley a hell of a lot longer than a year or two to fix all the bugs, and some never get fixed.

I don't think I would assume that a regular production version of the 120 would be the same thing as the 120R or the 120ST.  Those engines are being built in limited volume and being sold for a large profit.  Regular production engines will have the cost reduction team's tweaks included, and we all know how well that team has done over the past ten years or so. 

Jerry

[Dr.D]

    I love the "year or two until all the bugs are worked out" statement.  It usually takes Harley a hell of a lot longer than a year or two to fix all the bugs, and some never get fixed.

I don't think I would assume that a regular production version of the 120 would be the same thing as the 120R or the 120ST.  Those engines are being built in limited volume and being sold for a large profit.  Regular production engines will have the cost reduction team's tweaks included, and we all know how well that team has done over the past ten years or so. 

Jerry

Darn Jerry I am already a cynic I should avoid reading your posts. If you didn't make any sense i would.

Look guys the MoCo will bring out bigger and better from time to time to keep you buying their stuff. I am not sure whether i would rather have the new 120st or a GMR 113 build? Just joking i am sure.

[Dr.D]

Yes.  My 2013 CVO King at 2 months old, and 2K miles had the top end torn down, new cams, heads ported and polished, 10.8 compression with the new pistons, 55mm HPI throttle body, and 5.3 injectors.  Lots more reliable power than stock.  I every time I get on my 110 CVO with just pipes and tuner, I feel a serious lacking of power.

So Yea, I think the new CVO should have a twin cooled 120 inch motor, or even a 124.

Another power whore. Have you ever had a bike that had to much power?

[FLSTFI Dave]

Another power whore. Have you ever had a bike that had to much power?

Uhm, let me think about that a minute.



NO

[Dr.D]

I heard of a guy that brought a CVO back in to trade away because it had to much power and he felt unsafe.?? I thought that was what the throttle was for. It ain't like its a toggle switch on the motor.

I have wondered what the Jims 131 was like? I have heard a lot of bad things about the Jims motors but did wonder what kind of power you could get put of 131 ci?

[FLSTFI Dave]

I heard of a guy that brought a CVO back in to trade away because it had to much power and he felt unsafe.?? I thought that was what the throttle was for. It ain't like its a toggle switch on the motor.

I have wondered what the Jims 131 was like? I have heard a lot of bad things about the Jims motors but did wonder what kind of power you could get put of 131 ci?

Wow, I never once thought a CVO had to much power, not even the first time I rode one.

I'm not sure on the power people are getting out of the 131.  I have seen real nice numbers from 124 S&S motors, in the 130's.

[SDCVO]

I heard of a guy that brought a CVO back in to trade away because it had to much power and he felt unsafe.?? I thought that was what the throttle was for. It ain't like its a toggle switch on the motor.

I have wondered what the Jims 131 was like? I have heard a lot of bad things about the Jims motors but did wonder what kind of power you could get put of 131 ci?

Thats nuts!

[Zinister]

Why would anyone look at a Jims 131 when there's a great S&S 143 to be had?

[Puma]

If the 120 crate motor sells well enough, we are probably still a few years away from it being standard on any bikes from the factory.