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[jimp]

http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_5128290

[Fired00d]

Hmmmm. Looks like the MoCo treating their employees like their customers....

......"This time around, following at least two months of negotiations, workers said they felt insulted and belittled by Harley's proposal.".....

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[mtncop73]

[highlight]Points of contention
· 4 percent wage increases contingent upon workers paying more for health care

· Employees hired after Feb. 2 would receive lower pay rates

· Company would contribute less to employee pension plans

· Health care for retirees [/highlight]

I don't blame the workers for being pissed! Pay more for health care to get what amounts to a cost of living increase? And why not pay less to new employees, after all you get what you pay for right?

i get ticked when a company that is making money, (We know they are!! ) tries to jerk around the workers to keep the profits higher. Sometimes we forget that if we take care of the little guys, they will take care of us!!

JMHO

I am not claiming to have intimate knowledge of the specific contract, just taking the article at face value.

NUFF SAID, no more  [smiley=soapbox.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

I've been with my company for 26 years. In that time, I've been on both sides of the aisle. Went on strike in 85 for 13 weeks. Never did recover 13 weeks of lost wages, but had we not struck, it would have cost me more over time. I'm not familiar with the issues here, so I can't pass judgement. As a union represented employee I would have said there are some things worth going out on strike over.

Now as a management employee I would say that a strike is the last thing management wants. Disruption to schedule continues long after the strike is settled and quality goes out the window for some time as well. Most strikes end up causing even deeper divisions between labor and management than the issues that caused the strike. However, with publicly traded companies, the almight bottom line rules. If the price of the stock falls due to lower profit margins, increased costs and a host of other issues, credit ratings change as well. The cost of borrowing money for capital improvements increases, a company loses it's ability to compete in the marketplace and everyone loses. We all would like to get a bigger slice of the pie. Believe me when I say even as a management employee, my raise last year sucked. My annual eval was full of wonderful words of praise, but the money attached to it did not reflect those words. In addition, our pension mutiplier was slashed by 1/3rd. At the top three tiers of the company however bonuses were handed out like Halloween candy. The only difference between me and the union employees is that I can't go on strike. I take it or leave it. Looking at it from that perspective makes me less supportive of a labor stoppage.

Just my $0.02

B B

[mtncop73]

The last thing I want to say is that a strike solves the issues. I was a union employee when I worked for US Customs. We were prohibited by law from striking. It did not make the union powerless, but definately made negotiations more difficult.

[rubaga]

Not good for those whose bikes are ordered but not produced yet e.g. me.

Spiderman - Very concerned about what you wrote i.e. disruption of quality and long recovery from strike time.

Hope they sort it somehow.

[SilverDawg]

Not good for those whose bikes are ordered but not produced yet e.g. me.

Spiderman - Very concerned about what you wrote i.e. disruption of quality and long recovery from strike time.

Hope they sort it somehow.

I agree 100%.  I know this is a very selfish stance I am taking, but I am now very concerned about the bike I have on order as well.  What will the attitude be if they go on strike, or go back to work with a contract that they really did not like and felt it was a big takeway.  How will the quality be maintained.  I hope the workers would not take it out on the product, but it is one possibility that could happen.

Today's large corporations are always looking at ways to be more efficient and ensure their long term survival.  Pension costs and health care are two of the biggest contingent liabilities these companies face.  The domestic auto mfgs. are in deep do-do on both of these issues.  Down-sizing and out sourcing are also huge among all sizes of companies.  Tasks like call center help, collections, and other more routine tasks can be farmed out to places like India for pennies on the dollar for what it costs here.  I know this first hand and our organization has done it, with somewhat mixed results so far.  

I have also had several increases in what I pay for medical coverage and deductible increases.  I do not like it, but hope it ensures the company can continue to offer coverage for the long term and avoid some of the pitfalls of some companies that have been overwelmed with health care costs.

Spidey, you make some good points.  Our merit raise pool was also challenged this year.  Our best employees got right around what they are proposing to the Harley boys and girls.  However, we are going more to a variable based pay system where you are rewarded for your performance.  So I guess at least we have a chance to make it up.

A strike will be tough on the HD dealers too!  They will sell out of their new bikes, then really go after the used market to keep revenue coming in.  May help those of us with older bikes get a few more bucks on the used market.

I hope they can avert this strike, again, for what are my own selfish reasons, but also for all of the individuals and families that it will make life extremely difficult for while this strike is in progress.

Stay tuned... [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[SPIDERMAN]

Cobaltman,
                Good post. You bring up a very valid point as to the automakers and their issues with entitled benefits. Ford and H-D have always had a very close relationship. Not sure I understand who, what, when and where it all started, but it would not surprise me to know that they share more than one or two folks who sit on both corporate boards. Given that, it's fairly easy to understand why H-D is going after the issues driving Ford to ground.

B B

[RJ749]

As a Teamster 174 member in pause, I will steer clear of this discussion as if it were about politics and religion at the annual family picnic.

Suffice to say, as B B and others point out, one need only look to Detroit to see where the "yellow brick road" can lead.

When unions began in Seattle in the bad old days there is no doubt there was a place for them.  Today I often wonder if they are in it for the betterment of the workers they represent or the union employees.

For everyone's sake I hope it is resolved equitably and quickly.

[rbmntx]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you Jrob.  Unions indeed did serve a very valuable purpose in the beginning but when they started what amounted to running the companies without the long term vision of the ultimate impact of their demands..., well, I guess that's what caused the rift between my dad, a long time construction worker and myself.

A company has got to be profitable over the long haul, plain and simple, otherwise, it will go the way of TWA, American Motors, and many other old line institutions that played an instrumental role in allowing middle America to be the wealthiest people in the world.  But, greed will ultimately destroy what been earned through hard work on both sides.

 [smiley=soapbox.gif]

Now, I'm stepping down off the soap box to let someone else vent....

[RJ749]

Here's a Euro example:  VW unions had taken things to extremes.  Germans, like all of us, like their time off and vacation.

In a recent negotiation which was said to be critical to the survival of VW, negotiators settled on a 35 hour work week, for the same money the workers were currently making.

Not bad you say?  This caused them to work 7 hours more than they had under the previous contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's right, 28 Freakin' hours a week with full benefits and 40 hour week pay.  Not a bad job if you can get it.  Of course if it had continued there wouldn't be a work week and they could have been on permanent vacation.  I guess that may be why German automobiles are expensive, at least partly why.  

[mtncop73]

Alot of great insight here in this thread. I would hate to see a company that I love so much cut its own throat by being penny wise and pound foolish. I think everyone deserves a fair wage for a fair days work. The problem is that so many people would work for less than the people currently at Harley, the company looks at ways to cut costs and the easiest is to cut salaries and benefits. Tough situation all around.

[SE-Dave]

As a dues paying member and a past Local Union President I have challenged the Company I work for across the table. First off a Strike is a no win situation for either side. It takes a long time after the strike is over to re-coop what is lost in wages and in employee / employer  relations. The consessions that the Motor Company is seeking is in trend with every other Major Corporation in the USA today and is not going to go away. Hell that is why most of manufacturing in this country has set up shop abroad. Any wage and benifit is looked at as taking away from corporate profits. The shame of it all is that we as consumers of Harley products know first hand the Company is and has been doing Very Very Well over the past 12 years. and also are aware of the profit margin on their clothes and accessories that we all are addicted to. IMHO this is just another sign of the times where Big Buisness is trying to "GUT" the middle class worker for their own financial gain. [smiley=drink.gif] Dave

[FR8TRN]

Well, they don't have much choice now....

http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_5133882

[VaEagle]

That lockout looks like an attempt to prevent theft, vandalism, or disorderly conduct on site by disgruntled employees.
Nice to see the workers will get paid for the day though.