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[guppytrash]

I think you got it all wrong HighOnHD,
I think we are all passionate about our HD's but tired of the same issues.
Last year we got a new wake board boat...its been flawless.
Last year we bought a new Grand Cherokee Summit for my wife...flawless.

I have been to the HD dealer several times in the last 2 years with intentions of leaving on a new CVO.  I always said when they make them water cooled I'm getting a new one.
Then I think of all the issues I have had with my 09, lifters, stereo, heated grips, seat, compensator,... read some of the problems guys are having with water leaks and stereo issues and
I just think I'll wait until they make some REAL changes.

Then I go home jump on the 2014 BMW R1200GSA that I bought the year before for half the price of my CVO, marvel at the electronic suspension, how freaky fast the 1200cc motor is, how cool the Garmin GPS is integrated into the engine temp, tire pressure, etc etc and all controlled by a wonder wheel on the left grip. 

But Thank you as I think you have made me realize I don't really enjoy the Harley anymore.
I just couldn't see myself without it.  But it is just wasting garage space as for the last year I only chose to ride it out of guilt.

See for sale if interested in a 2009 FLHTCUSE4. 

[HUBBARD]

Harley sales



No lesson here.






 

Ah...contraire........there's always a lesson.     Later--HUBBARD

[mark]

What on earth did I post that makes you think I hated my Harley?  I didn't hate it, nor do I hate HD.  However, I am disappointed that in 2010 I spent, what $32-33k, for the top of the line bike at the time, but at only 10k miles, it began using oil.  It became a pain when taking bike trips having to pack a couple qts of oil, having to check the oil daily.  On trips, it got to the point that I lost confidence with the bike's reliability...sort of on pins and needles, waiting for an engine failure. I wasn't interested in spending a grand or two tearing into a six year old bike when I wanted to trade in a year or two.

I wasn't interested in dropping $40k on a new CVO, so had all but decided to buy a '16 RGS.  At Bike Week this year I stopped by Daytona Indian.  The place was packed...with riders wearing HD gear.  Happened to strike up a conversation with one of the mgrs there and told him to give me the sales pitch he'd give to a longtime Harley guy.  I became intrigued and started researching Indian when I got home. 

About the same time, a riding buddy from when I lived in Louisiana told me he got rid of his 2011 CVO RG and bought an Indian...and loved it so much, bought his daughter a Scout.  BTW, he was a long-time HD guy.  This past Fall, one of the guys in my riding group bought a SGS and had a wheel bearing fail at 5k miles.  The tech that repaired his bike said it wasn't that uncommon.  Another guy I ride with recently bought a '16 RGS and had a Boom Audio amp and speakers installed.  It's been months and he still doesn't have a stereo that works as designed.  The AVC doesn't work correctly and the amp cuts in and out.  He's had it at the dealer several times and they've flashed and reflashed the unit. He's to the point of having the unit uninstalled and putting back in the original.  You take everything in this post collectively, and that is why I decided to buy an Indian. 

If anyone feels the need to bash me because, God forbid, I'm not loyal to a multi-billion dollar corporation, go ahead, I have thick skin. 

Again, I didn't hate my CVO SG, but was just disappointed.

[iski]

I had an 07 CVO Ultra that spent as about as much time in the shop as it did on the road.  Broke down constantly, was a PITA because of a series of issues that would render the bike dead on the road.  After having enough of this POS, I traded it in for a 2010 CVO Ultra, which has been remarkably better.  Not perfect, not as reliable as the cars/trucks I have bought for the past....maybe 25 years or so...but better than my 07.  My '10 has been fun to ride, is set up the way I like it, would throw a leg over the saddle tomorrow & head anywhere no matter how far away, very unlike my '07.  Also have an 02 RK that I love long time, great bike.

As to HD sales, have been considering a new touring bike, a CVO, for about 2 years. Not seriously though & there is a reason for that.  The problems initially with the newer touring bikes seemed to indicate that HD decided to bring a product to market that was not really all that thought out, the Infotainment console issues & some others just are ridiculous when paying 40k for 2 wheels.

Did HD lose a sale here?  So far, yes.  Am I looking at other makes?  So far yes.  Do I like any of them well enough to buy one?  So far no.  In the next year or so I am looking to get another touring bike.  Will it be a Harley?  Not sure.  We ride what we choose to ride.  HD earns that choice, it is not a given for me.

[RGlideKid]

Am I looking at other makes?  So far yes.  Do I like any of them well enough to buy one?  So far no.  In the next year or so I am looking to get another touring bike.  Will it be a Harley?  Not sure.  We ride what we choose to ride.  HD earns that choice, it is not a given for me.

Mike said this well.  Am I looking at other makes?  Of course!  I don't hate my bike either.  I love it.  I love Harley and their bikes.  But that doesn't stop me from being disappointed in the direction they're headed.  Heck, I'd be a fool not to look at the competition!
Do I like any of them well enough to quit Harley.  So far...no.  But I have a feeling that if Harley keeps going in the direction they seem hell bent to go...and Indian and Victory (Indian particularly) keep going in the direction they are headed, someday I may jump ship.  And who could blame me at that time?
I ride what I choose, and I chose a bike I love.  The MoCo's just been a fair disappointment to many of us for some time.  Us not quitting on them is a sign even a blind man could see...we still love Harleys.

[HighOnHD]

Mike said this well.  Am I looking at other makes?  Of course!  I don't hate my bike either.  I love it.  I love Harley and their bikes.  But that doesn't stop me from being disappointed in the direction they're headed.  Heck, I'd be a fool not to look at the competition!
Do I like any of them well enough to quit Harley.  So far...no.  But I have a feeling that if Harley keeps going in the direction they seem hell bent to go...and Indian and Victory (Indian particularly) keep going in the direction they are headed, someday I may jump ship.  And who could blame me at that time?
I ride what I choose, and I chose a bike I love.  The MoCo's just been a fair disappointment to many of us for some time.  Us not quitting on them is a sign even a blind man could see...we still love Harleys.

Exactly my point! I don't see virtually all of your posts include a derogatory comment about Harley. You are enjoying your bike. Great! Do a search on posts by Mark and Jerry and 90% have a complaint about Harley. Granted Jerry often includes useful information along with the jabs post after post. This does not sound like someone enjoying the "toy" that is supposed to be fun. Get rid of it if it is not fun, and get something that is if you can find it. Pretty simple to me, and that is the way I look at it. I am a simple man. It is not complicated. Why be miserable about it. Duh!

[TN]

I see it as not bashing the motosikles themselves but the MOCO business model they have chosen. My first CVO was an 07, what a POS that was.  07 CVO owners did get a special book sent to us to compensate for our troubles.    I tried to set myself up several times for a new CVO, what the hell was I thinking??

The HD executives that log into this site on a daily basis and refuse to participate is chickenchit too. This site is simply a focus group to the MOCO.


TN





 

[grc]

Exactly my point! I don't see virtually all of your posts include a derogatory comment about Harley. You are enjoying your bike. Great! Do a search on posts by Mark and Jerry and 90% have a complaint about Harley. Granted Jerry often includes useful information along with the jabs post after post. This does not sound like someone enjoying the "toy" that is supposed to be fun. Get rid of it if it is not fun, and get something that is if you can find it. Pretty simple to me, and that is the way I look at it. I am a simple man. It is not complicated. Why be miserable about it. Duh!

The solution, since the posts of Mark and myself seem to bother you so much, is to avoid reading them.  That's exactly what I usually do when I see one of yours, since I know it will normally be another shot at someone who has posted something less than all-out fan boy worship of the MoCo.  IMHO, it's not doing a true service to a company to gloss over all the warts and pretend everything is perfect when in fact it is far from perfect.  Companies that truly care use negative feedback to get better, and those who don't just ignore it and concentrate on lifestyle or a fancy new paint job or trinket/gadget to distract the easily distracted.  In case you haven't been paying attention, the ranks of the disillusioned have been growing rapidly over the past ten years.  Not everyone but you is wrong.

Jerry

[mark]

Are all of my post negative...certainly not.  However, I have used this forum to voice my opinion regarding issues that I have with the MoCo's end product.  Based on personal experience, coupled with the experiences of others on this site, it is my opinion the 110 is the most problematic engine introduced by the MoCo since the company's "rebirth."  Yes, I've complained about my 110 on this forum, because it is upsetting that a bike so eye-catching, that I liked, that cost so much, developed engine issues with so few miles.  I think any complaint voiced was justified.  Admittedly, I am a demanding consumer - and expected more from a company's top of the line product. 

We've about beat this to death, so I'm not going to post in this thread again, but will end with this:  In my riding group, four of us had CVO 110s.  I was the last man standing when I traded mine.  We're all still riding, but no one is on a CVO.  One guy experienced lifter failure on a trip and another, fearing lifter failure, traded soon after.  The third guy just never bonded with his CVO and traded for an Indian.  That's four former CVO owners that are now on a RGS, SGS, and two Indians.             

[HighOnHD]

Never realized it until now that I shouldn't log onto a CVO Harley website and profess that you actually enjoy riding it and that you are happy with it. I suppose I misunderstood. My bad. Cheers.

[CVOStreetglide]

HighonHD, this is what I find so peculiar about this site - CVO owners can post about the myriad of problems they've experienced with their $40k toys and everyone is OK with that.  But let one person post they are leaving the fold, and a loyalist pounces on them.  CVO owners have expressed dissatisfaction over the last several years with issues ranging from excessive oil consumption, compensator problems, lifter failure, valve guides and seals, limited choices of tires, failing chrome, leaking coolant systems, infotainment center problems, cam chain tensioner issues, faulty paint, etc.  Many of the posts in this very thread indicate HD owners are "cooling" to the brand.   

I would have loved buying another HD, but I drew the line at spending $40k on a CVO, then worrying if the lifters will fail, etc.  I've had two CVOs...the first one was great, the second, not so much.  It's no coincidence that HD customer satisfaction is down, while at the same time sales are down and stock prices are falling.  I didn't leave HD, I felt they left me.  I babied my last CVO, but it still used 1 qt. of oil every 1,000...which the MoCo claimed was within specs.  Does anyone really believe that?  I may own a HD again, but for now I've found something else.  Competition is always good for the consumer - hopefully the MoCo will up their game.  Lastly, while antidotal, look at an Indian dealer's trade-ins and you'll see who the new Indian owners are...it's us.  HD better pay attention to the war drums.       

Mark:

Your own experiences drove you to buy a new brand.....this time. We all know nothing is forever so you just may buy a new CVO the next time around.

FWIW: Some of the concerns expressed by people I know who switched are:

Hassles with warranty claims, difficulty with service people and considerable deminished value at sale or trade time.

I hope you enjoy your new ride and look forward to possibly seeing your posts here again in the future.

Other Jerry

[iski]

1st Q 2016   http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/harley-davidson-reports-first-quarter-2016-results-300253383.html

Lots of data, also if you scroll to the bottom of the page there is an interesting chart on mc registrations 2015 vs 2016.

[Rooster]

My long haul over the road bike is a 2007 SEUC.  It took a lot of time and money to make it reliable enough to go cross country without worries, including replacing the 110 motor, which I did on my dime.  Many of the issues I had with this bike still exist today on the current offerings.  I am not going to start over with another bike...     

That is exactly why I am still hanging on to my 07, well said.

[SDCVO]

1st Q 2016   http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/harley-davidson-reports-first-quarter-2016-results-300253383.html

Lots of data, also if you scroll to the bottom of the page there is an interesting chart on mc registrations 2015 vs 2016.

HD 2016 P&L is crazy healthy. I understand that is not the overall sentiment of this thread but most public companies (especially public motorcycle companies) would kill for that P&L. No question MC sales are down this year across the board but investment wise though not sure it is sustainable, looks very good.

[iski]

HD 2016 P&L is crazy healthy. I understand that is not the overall sentiment of this thread but most public companies (especially public motorcycle companies) would kill for that P&L. No question MC sales are down this year across the board but investment wise though not sure it is sustainable, looks very good.

HD is performing for their stockholders, the name of the game on Wall Street.  They have benefited some from export sales as well as perceived weak competition domestically.  Financially HD is a healthy company.  What is likely to happen is they will continue to lose some market share, looking at present trends plus maintaining the market dominance they have enjoyed is more difficult longer term.  They can continue to grow their business even if market share slips.  My opinion: HD rode the Baby Boom as well as anybody & positioned themselves very well to take advantage of it.  Boomers are aging and will be riding less due to age.  As Boomers die off the MC market may shrink.  As HD positions itself for the changes in the coming markets, will be interesting to see.

On the other hand, as to bike owners, some are die hard, HD only forever no matter what, some consider other brands for a variety of reasons, and others have already switched away.  Great financials are not why we throw a leg over a saddle, but if enough legs are not thrown over HD saddles, financials will eventually suffer.  As to improving overall reliability of their product, they look at service levels just like all companies, and have a target in mind.  Consumers want 100%+, in the real world companies shoot for what they think is acceptable & is not 100%.  Expect HD to be around a long time, also expect their competition to get more aggressive.  A fat market share like the one HD enjoys is very tempting to other brands, and siphoning away former HD owners is an easy way for others to grow their share.  My other opinion is, if our economy was truly robust, the MC market would be growing faster and HD would benefit more than others, the way it is currently positioned.