Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[flhse]

As approved yesterday by Harley-Davidson’s Board of Directors, the Company will discontinue its Buell product line and divest its MV Agusta unit as part of this strategy.     


http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_News/Company/newsarticle.jsp?locale=en_US&articleLink=News/0581_press_release.hdnews&newsYear=2009&history=news

[nidan]

I can certainly understand the Buell choice , MV Augusta makes incredible sport bikes , but certainly not part of the normal demographic for HD.

[Buy early]

Wow - a buddy of mine just purchased 2 new Buell's 3 months ago. He can't be a happy camper.

[LarryB]

smart move on HD's part, now maybe they can concentrate on making the BEST bike possible

[smkymtnboy]

i agree larryB

[ice6900]

So what was the point of buying MV lat year, did somebody loose there head over that nostalgic excercise?

As for Buell why just stop production, why not sell off the Buell company?

[SBB]

smart move on HD's part, now maybe they can concentrate on making the BEST bike possible

I guess that brings the question,
What part of building Buells took away from Harley making "the BEST bike possible"?
Is that going to be the excuse?
We didn't have the time or money to make Harley's the "BEST" because we owned Buell.
That's some koolaide that no one is going to buy.

SBB

[BALIS]

More room at the dealers floor and less parts to stock.

[naitram]

http://www.buell.com/en_us/

vid message from erik buell

[RedDevil]

Actually, they could have used Buell as their testing ground to bring better and higher tech evolutions to the mother ship...but business is business and you stick with what got you there to begin with...I never was a big Buell fan, but I did see a niche market for them....

[Twolanerider]

There was a thread/discussion here a couple years or so ago questioning the Buell - Harley arrangement and suggesting that Buells just didn't "fit" in the Harley dealerships.  They don't.  But they're not strong enough to stand alone in their own building.  Not surprised that they're just going to fade away. 

The MV Augusta thing seemed odd to begin with.  Only thing that seem to make sense to me at the time was they bought the company to gain the European dealer network and thereby further assist international sales efforts.  Guess they decided whatever cash they can get for the company near-term is more important than the European floor space longer term.

[ice6900]

Only thing that seem to make sense to me at the time was they bought the company to gain the European dealer network and thereby further assist international sales efforts.  Guess they decided whatever cash they can get for the company near-term is more important than the European floor space longer term.

Have a look in your touring handbooks, Harley Davidson already had an extensive European dealer network, MV dealer network was never going to enhance that, for me the buy out was an ill judged/ill timed nostalgia trip to buy back something they once owned.

[Twolanerider]

Have a look in your touring handbooks, Harley Davidson already had an extensive European dealer network, MV dealer network was never going to enhance that, for me the buy out was an ill judged/ill timed nostalgia trip to buy back something they once owned.

Understand that.  Never thought that buying MV was a "good" decision or tool to expand the European network chain.  Just that it seemed to make more sense than any other reason I could think of for HD to buy MV.  None of the reasons seemed to fit or make sense.  That just seemed the "less wrong" of all the other reasons.

[Grizzly]

Just announced this morning...

[SBB]

Just announced this morning...

WOW, I thought he was going to cry.
It was like he was reading a eulogy at a funeral.
I have owned 3 Buells and enjoyed each one.
This is sad.

SBB

[tazmun]

WOW, I thought he was going to cry.
It was like he was reading a eulogy at a funeral.
I have owned 3 Buells and enjoyed each one.
This is sad.

SBB

Yes it is, and I hope people on this site READ the Buell story. I think one or two have no clue
about how it started. I do think HD should have taken clues from Buell, on how th improve
Harley motorcycles. Just my 2 cents.

[CVOStreetglide]

Yes it is, and I hope people on this site READ the Buell story. I think one or two have no clue
about how it started. I do think HD should have taken clues from Buell, on how th improve
Harley motorcycles. Just my 2 cents.

I agree!!!

This was a niche motorcycle with a solid customer and performance backing.It could survive n my assessment if it wnetindependent and scaled back to service the specialty market tha it built over the year.s

As far a MV Austa goes their moters are terrific!! I thinking that it might end up in one of our newly redesigned FL frames as the first water cooled Harley.

Harley seems to be following the car industry business model before it's too late--Reduce the number of models/brands adn focus on making them the absolute best products in the market. couple that with state-of-the -art manufacturing processes adn technolgy and the company will survive but at a smaller scale. 

I think the 2010 CVO Street Glide is an example of what they want to morph into.

I hope they do make it as I am sure lots of you guys do.

[BigLew]

Not sure that I agree the the Motoco is doing anything differently. They are not even saying anything differently about what they are "going to do". I guess part of the love hate relationship I have with them is trying to understand how they can have such a good thing going and pay so little attention to the real issues that bite all of the owners. you would think if the mindset was right that after making a v twin for 100 years they could almost make a perfect drivetrain. But they don't. And the MotoCo has by far the worst customer support I have ever encountered. But before I rant to much I will remind everyone that I too am a Harley owner/rider. Hard to put my head around it. Why do I ride a bike thats half as good as a BMW for twice the price, not sure but I do. It really saddens me because I see the loss of an american icon in the future.

Mike

[LC110]

http://www.mvagustausa.com/web-mvagusta/news/1009_HDdivestMV.html

They are trying to sell off mvagusta.

[tazmun]

Not sure that I agree the the Motoco is doing anything differently. They are not even saying anything differently about what they are "going to do". I guess part of the love hate relationship I have with them is trying to understand how they can have such a good thing going and pay so little attention to the real issues that bite all of the owners. you would think if the mindset was right that after making a v twin for 100 years they could almost make a perfect drivetrain. But they don't. And the MotoCo has by far the worst customer support I have ever encountered. But before I rant to much I will remind everyone that I too am a Harley owner/rider. Hard to put my head around it. Why do I ride a bike thats half as good as a BMW for twice the price, not sure but I do. It really saddens me because I see the loss of an american icon in the future.

Mike

I agree, but the bottom line is the ALMIGHTY stockholder!
I have a number of friends that work for the company, and all they ever hear
"how much faster", and "where can we buy it cheaper"!

That's the real problem with publicly owned companies.....
It's not about history or family......it's the dollar.

Sad sad, just sad!

[sadunbar]

WOW, I thought he was going to cry.
It was like he was reading a eulogy at a funeral.
I have owned 3 Buells and enjoyed each one.
This is sad.

SBB

Yep - very sad.

I feel for Eric Buell - his life's work - his namesake..  I suspect he did shed some tears...

It is rare that a company can cut and shrink their way to prosperity.  I never did understand the MV Augusta acquisition.  I think they lost their way with Buell products with their marketing strategy.  I hope the MOCO knows what their doing....

[Twolanerider]

 I hope the MOCO knows what their doing....

Jesus Scott, we've been hoping for that to happen again for years.

[MIKEYTEE]

Eric said in his announcement that he would still be with HD. This might help HD in the R&D department.
Hope they put his knowledge to good use
Mike
 

[MontyB]

Press Release today:
HARLEY-DAVIDSON ANNOUNCES 3RD QUARTER RESULTS, UNVEILS LONG-TERM BUSINESS STRATEGY

 

Retail Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Sales Decline Moderates from 2nd Quarter

Operating Loss at Finance Unit Impacts Profit

Company to Discontinue Buell Product Line, Divest MV Agusta

 

            MILWAUKEE , October, 15, 2009 – Harley-Davidson, Inc. (NYSE:HOG) announced decreased revenue, net income and earnings per share for the third quarter of 2009 compared to the year-ago period, while reporting a moderation in the decline of retail new Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales compared to the second quarter.

Worldwide retail sales of new Harley-Davidson® motorcycles declined 21.3 percent in the third quarter compared to last year’s third quarter, an improvement from the 30.1 percent decline in this year’s second quarter.  An 84.1 percent decline in net income and an 84.5 percent decline in diluted earnings per share from the year-ago quarter reflected lower motorcycle shipments and the effects of the economy on retail and wholesale loan performance at Harley-Davidson Financial Services.

Harley-Davidson also unveiled major elements of its go-forward business strategy to drive growth through a single-minded focus of efforts and resources on the unique strengths of the Harley-Davidson brand, and to enhance productivity and profitability through continuous improvement. As approved yesterday by Harley-Davidson’s Board of Directors, the Company will discontinue its Buell product line and divest its MV Agusta unit as part of this strategy.

“While the environment remains challenging for us, we are mildly encouraged by the moderation in the decline of dealer retail Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales,” said Keith Wandell, Chief Executive Officer of Harley-Davidson, Inc. “And moving forward, our strategy is designed to strengthen Harley-Davidson for long-term growth and deliver results through increased focus.                       

 “As our announcement regarding Buell and MV Agusta indicates, we are moving with the speed and decisiveness required to bring our business strategy to life,” said Wandell.  “The fact is we must focus both our effort and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to sustained, meaningful, long-term growth.”

 

Third Quarter and Nine-Month Results

Net income for the third quarter was $26.5 million, compared to $166.5 million in the third quarter of 2008, on revenue of $1.12 billion, compared to $1.42 billion in the year-ago period. Diluted earnings per share were $0.11 for the third quarter of 2009 and $0.71 in the year-ago period.

Through nine months, Harley-Davidson, Inc. reported net income of $163.6 million, down 71.6 percent and diluted earnings per share of $0.70, down 71.4 percent from the year-ago period. Revenue through nine months was $3.57 billion, down 17.1 percent from the same period last year.

[motor1]

          All I can say is that I have purchased 3 Buells, ( currently own an 04 XB 12R ) and they have all been trouble  free, can't say that about the 6 Harleys I have owned. I was going to buy an 1125R, not so sure any more, might become difficult to obtain parts, for the Rotax engined Buell. Feel like I have lost a friend.

[VaEagle]

I think it's a shame for H-D to stop production of the Buell and sell MV Agusta. My .02 is that H-D needs to attract a younger rider that doesn't have a lot of disposable income but wants a dependable bike with performance that comes right out of the showroom and they don't have to spend thousands to get it to run well. I don't believe that a new paint job or chrome bits on a Sportster will entice a younger rider away from the imports.
For anyone looking for a Buell, I just got an email from Hampton Roads H-D and Southside H-D in Virginia : they are selling the Buell blast for $1,000 off and the other Buells for $3,000 off (I am guessing MSRP prices) this month. Their email stated they would honnor warranties for Buells as well.

[knuck45]

Is the VROD next?

[sadunbar]

You have to believe there are a few NHRA Pro motorcycle Buell teams scrambling right about now also......

[49445CVO]

So what is H-D gonna run at the track? I know they use the V-Rod for drag stuff but the circle track?

[spydglide]

So what is H-D gonna run at the track? I know they use the V-Rod for drag stuff but the circle track?

They've already exited from flat track racing......just into drag racing as far as I can tell.  spyder

[49445CVO]

They've already exited from flat track racing......just into drag racing as far as I can tell.  spyder

Hmmmm. I did not know that....Thanks, that answers the question.  I still feel that it is very sad!

[ice6900]

Is the VROD next?

Oh yeah thats a great idea, not much American iron on them Porshe designed ugly ducklings.

[tazmun]

Oh yeah thats a great idea, not much American iron on them Porshe designed ugly ducklings.

True, true.....sweet engine......BFU cradle.....

Bump up the cu/in, detune it a bit......you may have the best Harley Tourer yet!
I can only dream..........

[nidan]

Too bad Erik can't continue to make bikes at a "boutique" level , they finally did well on the track , winning the championship this season.

HD certainly should focus on improving the base product, and hopefully Erik's considerable talents will facilitate meaningful change.

[ice6900]

We can hope Erik joins the CVO motor development team!

[porthole]

He has a pretty good band too. They play at least once a year at our local dealer.

[jimp]

I know a guy who bought a new 1125r today for $5348 OTD.

[Fired00d]

I know a guy who bought a new 1125r today for $5348 OTD.

Wow!!!!

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Buy early]

The MSRP on that bike is $12,900 - are they discounting that much already? Was the bike new?

[SBB]

I know a guy who bought a new 1125r today for $5348 OTD.

That's getting down to d00d's price range!

 

[jimp]

You can look threw CT and find some for this price.

[Kevinski]

Too many accountants running too many company's, no good.

[Eqcons]

Confirmation that HD have lost the plot, and have no idea how to run a business any more.  They only just BOUGHT MV Agusta, FFS!!! What, "seemed like a good idea at the time", did it?? Idiots.

And in a time of economic hardship, when it's difficult to sell the bikes they do produce, what do they do here in the UK?  Why, up the prices (AGAIN, second time this year!) by a further 7.5%.  That means a CUSE5 here from the end of the year will cost a staggering £29600, (currently around $48500) and as I've said elsewhere, only a nutcase with more money than sense would pay that for one.  They are simply not worth the money.  After three overpriced CVOs in as many years, I think I can safely say, "Gentlemen, I've bought my last...." Oh, I can afford one, but I just won't be ripped off like that. 

Jim

[ice6900]

Confirmation that HD have lost the plot, and have no idea how to run a business any more.  They only just BOUGHT MV Agusta, FFS!!! What, "seemed like a good idea at the time", did it?? Idiots.

And in a time of economic hardship, when it's difficult to sell the bikes they do produce, what do they do here in the UK?  Why, up the prices (AGAIN, second time this year!) by a further 7.5%.  That means a CUSE5 here from the end of the year will cost a staggering £29600, (currently around $48500) and as I've said elsewhere, only a nutcase with more money than sense would pay that for one.  They are simply not worth the money.  After three overpriced CVOs in as many years, I think I can safely say, "Gentlemen, I've bought my last...." Oh, I can afford one, but I just won't be ripped off like that. 

Jim

I hear what your saying, problem is the accountants that run the big companies dont live in the real world. If the present loyal customers feel like this then the slippery slope is getting much steeper!

[Eqcons]

I hear what your saying, problem is the accountants that run the big companies dont live in the real world. If the present loyal customers feel like this then the slippery slope is getting much steeper!

I think so, and I hope so, so that they get taught a lesson before it's too late.  This last decade I've spent more than £100,000 - a tenth of a million pounds - best part of a fifth of a million dollars, on HD bikes and accessories.  I won't be spending much more, because they've just loaded that last straw on to the camel's back as far as I'm concerned.

I can buy a BMW 325i M-Sport for exactly the same price as a CUSE5, and I think the Beemer is overpriced. It, however, doesn't always come with paint flaws, bad assembly, doesn't overheat, and start to rust as soon as you drive it away. I don't have to spend thousands more to get decent performance from it.  I CANNOT believe anyone, even if they are as rich as Bill Gates, is stupid enough to pay that for a bike.

The price is nuts, just plain nuts. 

[BALIS]

Confirmation that HD have lost the plot, and have no idea how to run a business any more.  They only just BOUGHT MV Agusta, FFS!!! What, "seemed like a good idea at the time", did it?? Idiots.

And in a time of economic hardship, when it's difficult to sell the bikes they do produce, what do they do here in the UK?  Why, up the prices (AGAIN, second time this year!) by a further 7.5%.  That means a CUSE5 here from the end of the year will cost a staggering £29600, (currently around $48500) and as I've said elsewhere, only a nutcase with more money than sense would pay that for one.  They are simply not worth the money.  After three overpriced CVOs in as many years, I think I can safely say, "Gentlemen, I've bought my last...." Oh, I can afford one, but I just won't be ripped off like that. 

Jim

You are lucky in US and even in UK.Here in Belgium the cuse is at 37.000 euros
Price in UK is +/- 32.555 euros.
Price in US is +/- 55.158 usd.

[Gone Fishin']

We can hope Erik joins the CVO motor development team!

Why? Newer Buell's are using an Austrian made Rotax engine. Only the older Buell's still use a powertrain made by Harley.

One has to be looking at the entire development at HD from more than one angle.

Harley seems to me caught up in a time warp, building bikes for a shrinking demography. That's fine with me, I belong.

But as a company they should also somewhat worry about who is going to buy their bikes in the next three to five to ten years, right? Both, MV & Buell, have a younger demographic, but their sales at about 5k bikes (per manufacturer) annually did not suffice to make an impact on a company positioned to sell 300k bikes per year.

So HD had to face the choice of trying to dramatically expand the MV and Buell lines to, let's say 50k bikes annually per manufacturer, or close or sell. The expansion to meaningful numbers (if at all possible) would have required an investment far larger than HD's cash flow could afford, hence the company would run itself into losses, just by trying.

That would mean the stock price would tank even more, and that would mean any company interested in HD could buy it on the cheap.

Now, with the smaller brands out of the way, HD can concentrate on trying to find a way to grow sales and attract a broader demography. Not easy, and I am not sure, if they have a plan in place for that. Going to India and China is not going to help that much, these markets (from my experience) do not readily support large displacement motorcycles which weigh 800lbs.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Eqcons]

You are lucky in US and even in UK.Here in Belgium the cuse is at 37.000 euros
Price in UK is +/- 32.555 euros.
Price in US is +/- 55.158 usd.

I can't understand why you'd pay that, honestly, I can't. (Nothing to do with whether the buyer can afford it or not, all about just paying way too much!)
 But the price differential between here and Belgium (or elsewhere in the € zone) is temporary. A couple of weeks back it was closer to €35000, but the £ and the $ have suffered quite badly against the € recently.
There comes a point where people stop saying "That guy is lucky to be able to afford one of those." and start saying "That guy is stupid to be paying for one of those." In my opinion, that point has been reached.  

Jim

[LarryB]

It's all relative

[Eqcons]

It's all relative

That's true, Larry, and relative to every other motorcycle on the planet, many of relatively better quality, and relative to the price of many relatively upmarket cars, Harley's prices are relatively atrocious outside the US. 

Jim

[Gone Fishin']

Hi Jim,

We all know that you are upset about Harley's pricing for CVO's, specifically in the U.K., and of course it does not help that the same bike is more expensive elsewhere. But, as an owner, you could possibly view Harley's pricing strategy helpful in keeping the value of your bike up. If Harley would suddenly slash prices on 2010 or later comparable models, the resale value would tank accordingly. This would not be helpful to many of us, and also not to the dealers. So, to enter the club the fee is outrageous, but once you are in "A Harley isn't just for Christmas, it's for LIFE!". He he he ....

Ride safely,
Louis

That's true, Larry, and relative to every other motorcycle on the planet, many of relatively better quality, and relative to the price of many relatively upmarket cars, Harley's prices are relatively atrocious outside the US. 

Jim

[Eqcons]

I'd not suggest them slashing prices Louis, but the prices were expensive before. Now they are outrageous. There can be no justification for raising prices to the new level, an increase of around 25% in the last 6 months.  They should have kept them as they were.

And as for resale values, don't make me laugh!    When were you last offered what YOU think is a good price when trading in your bike agains a new one of the same model?  Maybe it happens over there, but it don't happen here!  1st year loss is around £6000 ($10000) - and that loss will be BIGGER now.

It's silly - a CUSE5 or a BMW 325i M-Sport for the same price! (Oh, and these days I can get a decent discount off a BMW).

Jim

Hi Jim,

We all know that you are upset about Harley's pricing for CVO's, specifically in the U.K., and of course it does not help that the same bike is more expensive elsewhere. But, as an owner, you could possibly view Harley's pricing strategy helpful in keeping the value of your bike up. If Harley would suddenly slash prices on 2010 or later comparable models, the resale value would tank accordingly. This would not be helpful to many of us, and also not to the dealers. So, to enter the club the fee is outrageous, but once you are in "A Harley isn't just for Christmas, it's for LIFE!". He he he ....

Ride safely,
Louis

[TIF2]

One has to be looking at the entire development at HD from more than one angle.

Ride safely,
Louis

I think people are ... and I think that is the real problem.

[spydglide]

It's silly - a CUSE5 or a BMW 325i M-Sport for the same price! (Oh, and these days I can get a decent discount off a BMW).

Jim

Yeah, but Jim.........can a BMW 325i M-Sport go:  potato-potato-potato ?    har!  spyder

[TIF2]

Yeah, but Jim.........can a BMW 325i M-Sport go:  potato-potato-potato ?    har!  spyder

No ... but it can probably go 1,000 miles without a clutch problem.

har!

[spydglide]

No ... but it can probably go 1,000 miles without a clutch problem.

har!

    har.  spyder

[Eqcons]

Yeah, but Jim.........can a BMW 325i M-Sport go:  potato-potato-potato ?    har!  spyder

 

[bandit]

I'm an Ulysses-Rider and a CVO-owner, but couldn' t understand the mv agusta-deal.
Where were most of the buell's sold? Put the factory to that continent and keep it
running. More room for dealers, good joke for what? Opening-events for 2010 at the
end of september and then they present only 2 models?

As a dealer, your just an independet employee. The MoCo tells you what to do, but
it's your responsibility, when you can only present 2 bikes from 2010.
The Moco made the same errors again: Aermacchi and MV Agusta. Following the car-
industry, they are ..... ( view the history of Tucker).

It's history we should learn of and not the owner share!!!!

[CVOJOE]

Harley-Davidson also unveiled major elements of its go-forward business strategy to drive growth through a single-minded focus of efforts and resources on the unique strengths of the Harley-Davidson brand, and to enhance productivity and profitability through continuous improvement.

Anxiously awaiting the 'go -forward business strategy to drive growth though a single minded focus' 

They're cutting their losses on poor development and business decisions to at least keep from becoming a de-listed stock in 2010. But the band keeps playing the Milwaukee tunes as the once Titan keeps sinking further. WTF? 

[bandit]

Bad joke for all the employees, if you read this:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iY7CyjD3huq6q589cKgHb9F3dPdg

109 mill $ for 14 month

[tazmun]

I don't know if it's true, but I heard rumor that Yamaha is interested in the purchase of Buell.
It is on a few websites, and has been on the radio this morning according to a friend of mine.

HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE???

[ice6900]

I don't know if it's true, but I heard rumor that Yamaha is interested in the purchase of Buell.
It is on a few websites, and has been on the radio this morning according to a friend of mine.

HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE???

what would that make   Yauell or Yamell or Bumaha bikes

[tazmun]

what would that make   Yauell or Yamell or Bumaha bikes

Whatever they would call it would be BETTER then no name at ALL, now wouldn't it!!!!!!!

[Gone Fishin']

The insignificance of Buell to Yamaha would be even greater than it is (was) for Harley.

Ride safely,
Louis

[tazmun]

The insignificance of Buell to Yamaha would be even greater than it is (was) for Harley.

Ride safely,
Louis

If Harley has no interest in selling Buell, as they have stated, why would Yahama want to buy it?
From the rumors, I'm hearing, they like the product, and want to expand the line. I think most
likely in Europe, and Asia?

[Gone Fishin']

If Harley has no interest in selling Buell, as they have stated, why would Yahama want to buy it?
From the rumors, I'm hearing, they like the product, and want to expand the line. I think most
likely in Europe, and Asia?

Yamaha builds motorcycles by the millions. What would 5,000 Buells mean per year?

Ride safely,
Louis

[tazmun]

Yamaha builds motorcycles by the millions. What would 5,000 Buells mean per year?

Ride safely,
Louis

I totally agree....... So why did Harley buy them from Eric in the first place??

[Gone Fishin']

I totally agree....... So why did Harley buy them from Eric in the first place??

I am not sure Harley paid much. And the motor company certainly does not have a great acquisition track record, right?

Ride safely,
Louis

[tazmun]

I am not sure Harley paid much. And the motor company certainly does not have a great acquisition track record, right?

Ride safely,
Louis

Louis,
  Just checked the sales numbers for the 9 months ending Sept 07 and Sept 08. on Buell motorcycles.
2007 = 8376 bikes, 2008 = 9224 bikes. It seems that sales are much better then Harley's were?
True, all motorcycle sales were down, but now the don't report Buell sales by themself's,
seems they have added the Italian bike, hmmm!

 I just feel sorry for for Eric, who built up his company, and in a blink of an eye, it's all over.
Thank you Harley Davidson!!

[harley56]

Louis,
  Just checked the sales numbers for the 9 months ending Sept 07 and Sept 08. on Buell motorcycles.
2007 = 8376 bikes, 2008 = 9224 bikes. It seems that sales are much better then Harley's were?
True, all motorcycle sales were down, but now the don't report Buell sales by themself's,
seems they have added the Italian bike, hmmm!

 I just feel sorry for for Eric, who built up his company, and in a blink of an eye, it's all over.
Thank you Harley Davidson!!

Eric is a unique and talented individual that will, hopefully, always have a home with Harley-Davidson.  Unfortunately for Harley, Buells were not selling.  At their 2010 announcement meeting Buell could not sell it's existing inventory.  When you have hundreds of bikes parked in East Troy with no orders to ship against you start re-thinking the viability of the company.

[BALIS]

From the Walworth County Economic Developement Alliance they try to find a solution to save the company with the 170 employees.

[cyril]

Ditto. http://www.visordown.com:80/motorcycle- ... /8513.html

[TIF2]

Full article here:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64849017.html

..... Bob Klein, Harley's director of corporate communications, reiterated that Harley is "discontinuing the Buell product line rather than selling the business because of how deeply integrated Buell is into our business systems and distribution network." .......

[MKW]

Keeping Buell under the HD umbrella was one of several attempts to draw a younger customer base.  The hopes were that is would bring the 20 something crowd in and as they "aged" they would make a lateral move to HD.  HD is under new senior management and this is one of many new changes that will be coming.  CVO operations are on the move.  "Dark Customs" line is being pushed to draw the attention of the "younger" buyers.  Softail Deluxe was an attempt to gain more of the woman market (sorry for all you guys who own one........its a great bike and if I had a smaller inseam I would have bought one).  The VROD and the list goes on.  Change is happening and I would venture to say that a liquid cooled touring bike is not too far off as well as the retirement of the V-twin motor.  I'm "all in" supporting the motor co but it is going to be a crazy next 2-3 years 

[bandit]

found on: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/warren-buffet-invests-300mm-harleydavidson/
posted: Wednesday, February 4th, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

We find this news to be pretty interesting, considering last June Harley bought MV Agusta for the tune of $100MM, when MV had about $200MM-$250MM of debt on the books. Some quick mental math on that, and we realize that’s the same amount of money Berkshire is investing into Harley. It would look like the MV purchase wasn’t as good of a strategic move as it was previously thought. A&R will be meeting with Mr. Buffett in the next two days, and will have the opportunity to ask him his thoughts on the HD/MV deal, and what it means for Harley in the credit crunch.

NOBODY heard the alarm-bells ringing!!??!!

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/banter/buell-closeouts-deals-1125cr/

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/oped/harley-davidson-circles-the-wagons/

[GC_Super]

Keeping Buell under the HD umbrella was one of several attempts to draw a younger customer base.  The hopes were that is would bring the 20 something crowd in and as they "aged" they would make a lateral move to HD.  HD is under new senior management and this is one of many new changes that will be coming. CVO operations are on the move.  "Dark Customs" line is being pushed to draw the attention of the "younger" buyers.  Softail Deluxe was an attempt to gain more of the woman market (sorry for all you guys who own one........its a great bike and if I had a smaller inseam I would have bought one).  The VROD and the list goes on.  Change is happening and I would venture to say that a liquid cooled touring bike is not too far off as well as the retirement of the V-twin motor.  I'm "all in" supporting the motor co but it is going to be a crazy next 2-3 years 

As it pertains to the CVO bikes, this months American Rider paints a pretty bad picture of the York assemply plant. Very unhappy employees, lots of sick days, etc. They ( HD ) would love to shut it down due to the employee morale there. The mag also referred to the CVO bikes as ones that have the most turnover and the most depreciation. I agree with most of the CVO line, wityh the Electra glides being the exception due to touring riders being more serious about riding and not just showing off at the bars.
They also mention that HD has been shopping around for some cheaper labor overseas. I can't imagine HD's being assembled anywhere but the good old USA.

[CVOStreetglide]

I Hope you're wrong. It seems to me to be a shame that the employees union or not would want to do everything they can to keep the York plant open. It's a BIG part of the local economy and there isn't much else up there in the way of businesses that they can go to work for. 

CVO resales--In my experience it has been quite the opposite. I see these bikes as a separate market and more in demand than the conventional models. The Price retention is good---not great. But who cares I am going to ride mine for a few years. 

[Twolanerider]

I Hope you're wrong.

May or may not be.  And probably somewhere between either sides version of reality anyway.  One thing I'd not do, however, is immediately assume that any bike rag's rendition of a potential labor dispute is not a company favored version of the story.  They suck that teat too hard to be fair, and have for a long long time.

[spydglide]

I'm all for 'jobs', but the assembly of the HD's by the good ole USA union types sure hasn't proven to be of the highest quality.....just saying.  spyder

[FLSTFI Dave]

I Hope you're wrong. It seems to me to be a shame that the employees union or not would want to do everything they can to keep the York plant open. It's a BIG part of the local economy and there isn't much else up there in the way of businesses that they can go to work for. 

CVO resales--In my experience it has been quite the opposite. I see these bikes as a separate market and more in demand than the conventional models. The Price retention is good---not great. But who cares I am going to ride mine for a few years. 

While I fully agree with your premiss my question is "What union have you seen that has worked to help keep a plant?" 

Seems UAW did not do much to try to help GM or Chrysler.

Harley has been looking at KY and TN to move the york plant, TN is a right to work state.  I think KY is too.
 

[grc]

As it pertains to the CVO bikes, this months American Rider paints a pretty bad picture of the York assemply plant. Very unhappy employees, lots of sick days, etc. They ( HD ) would love to shut it down due to the employee morale there. The mag also referred to the CVO bikes as ones that have the most turnover and the most depreciation. I agree with most of the CVO line, wityh the Electra glides being the exception due to touring riders being more serious about riding and not just showing off at the bars.
They also mention that HD has been shopping around for some cheaper labor overseas. I can't imagine HD's being assembled anywhere but the good old USA.

And I suppose that "morale" problem was created by the union and the workers with no help from MoCo management.  It has been my experience in approximately 35 years in a similar industry that management reaps what it sows.  And now rather than step up and work toward fair and equitable resolution of the issues leading to the poor morale, they would rather fold up the tent (with huge tax write-offs of course) and find some state that will hand them the keys to the treasury to subsidize a new factory, and then find new nonunion employees who will likely have fewer "morale" problems, at least initially.  Once they have abused the taxpayers for all the subsidies they can squeeze out of the local politicians, it would surprise me if they didn't move the operations overseas anyway.

I'm sure a lot of folks couldn't imagine having their Maytag's, Sylvania's, RCA's, etc. made anywhere but in the USA, but look around and make note of just where all those "American" brands are really made.  Nowdays the only thing American about many products is the brand name; parts and labor are all from overseas.  I don't see any reason why H-D will be any different, it's just a matter of time.  All the better for management if they can make it seem to be the result of unions and bad workers, rather than their own poor management and greed. 

Jerry

[grc]

I'm all for 'jobs', but the assembly of the HD's by the good ole USA union types sure hasn't proven to be of the highest quality.....just saying.  spyder

I totally agree spyder, the quality from H-D has been totally underwhelming for some time now.  Do you think it would get better if they used Chinese child labor to assemble the cheap Chinese out-of-spec parts? 

It's been my experience that management is responsible for quality, not the guy on the assembly line.  Some rather highly regarded folks in industry say the same thing, including the father of Japanese Quality Control, W. Edwards Deming.  Leave it to Harley management to try to lay all their issues on the workers, just like they lay stuff off on their customers.  Must be a wonderful life, being blameless and perfect like the clowns running that company (into the ground).

Jerry

[harley56]

Back in the 80's Harley went to M.A.N., Material As Needed, also called J.I.T. Just In Time for their supply and manufacturing process.  (Learned it from the Japenese) It put quality control in the hands of the people on the line - they did their own inspecting, not someone else after a days worth of production was complete.  Did great things for morale and quality, basically the QC dept. at York was able to scale way back.  Don't know what's happened over the years. 
Anyway, I do know the new C.E.O. is looking at all avenues to stay competitive, that being said they probably can build and assemble in places more competitive than York.  Maybe they will need to do that, I hope not.  I do know there are agreements in place with the union that hurts and it's not all about wages.  As an example they aren't building sportsters and haven't for quite awhile.  Are there dealers that need sportsters, yes there are, especially Nightsters and Irons and Harley knows it.  Problem is to get the people back to build those bikes they need to bring people back in order of seniority, so they may need to bring a few fork lift drivers back to get to a person that can build Nightsters and Irons.  I'm sure these kind of limitations are more than a little frustrating.

[Grizzly]

CVO bikes as ones that have the most turnover and the most depreciation.

This could be simply a play on words... Obviously the most expensive bikes have the chance of the biggest depreciation if you're calculating by a percentage!

However, it's been demonstrated time and time again that in fact the CVO's DO hold their value the best, due to their exclusivity and the high demand to own the best bikes in the world!

[ice6900]

latest on MV

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_News/Company/newsarticle.jsp?locale=en_US&articleLink=News/0608_press_release.hdnews&newsYear=2009&history=news