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[rcamp2009]

I agree. I wore a seat belt before it was made a law. My BS rider and I wear helmets now. I just don't want to be told it is mandatory to wear either.

[Fireguy]

Last note...Trust me when I say that I HATE government telling me what I can or can not do.  I am just fed up with people taking more and more of my hard earned money from my pocket. If there are ways to help keep cost down for all of us then lets do it. And keep the government from having to regulate our lives. We don't need a babysitter to tell us what to do, we are all grown adults and should make the right choices to begin with.

[Keats]

I respect your opinions, and unfortunately it is true that until recently law enforcement and hospitals didn't keep good records that could help prove or disprove the benefits of helmets.  Without good data, the statistics can be and are constantly manipulated to serve the purpose of the one's doing the manipulating.  As the old saying goes, "figures don't lie, but liars figure".  I'm reminded of all the credit folks were taking recently when highway fatality numbers were released for last year, showing another significant reduction.  The governor took credit because of his directives to the state police to increase highway patrols.  Local governments took credit for their safe driving classes.  The list of credit takers was extensive, so I won't list them all.  Unfortunately, very few in the media saw through all the BS and came up with the real answers.  Drivers aren't any better than they were before, the number of incidents keeps going up.  Fatalities are down because cars and trucks have gotten exponentially safer over the past couple decades due to mandated safety features, with things like airbags, seatbelts, stability control, crush zone design, etc., making what used to be unsurvivable crashes very survivable.  If everyone fought as hard against all of those safety improvements as motorcycle riders do against helmets, I'm quite sure we wouldn't be celebrating reduced fatalities on the highways.

As for the cost to society, if you really believe that everyone has gold plated insurance that will cover that lifetime of care and the lost income to support the family, I respectfully submit that you are living in a fantasy world.  There is a large and growing percentage of the population that has no medical coverage whatsoever, and another even larger percentage that has fairly basic coverage that tends to be cancelled at the whim of employer's and insurance companies.  As in, file a claim, lose your coverage.  And many of those policies have upper limits on lifetime benefits, they don't just agree to pay forever.  And then you have the actual motorcycle insurance policy.  Read your policy, I don't think the medical cost coverage on most policies would cover a week in the hospital, much less a lifetime.  And that's on the good policies, not the ones that young folks on a tight budget tend to have.  Minimum coverage requirements in many states are laughably low, and there are a lot of folks who opt for that minimum coverage.

If the available evidence, statistically shaky or not, doesn't convince you, or if common sense doesn't convince you, and you still don't want to wear a helmet, then don't wear one.  When, and I'm convinced it will just be a matter of time, the Fed's force all the states to require helmets, don't be surprised when you get pulled over and ticketed, or when you lose the privilege to drive on public roads after several tickets don't convince you.  Note, you won't be losing any rights, you will still have the right to not wear a helmet.  You will just lose the privilege of doing so on public roads.


Jerry

With this logic, one could come to the conclusion all motorcycles should be banned.
They are unsafe
Fatalities are highest with this group of vehicles
helmets do very little to improve their overall safety
the cost to society is burdonsome
they are responsible for a large number of deaths to young people

This is why we should never make that argument.........why stop at a helmet law?

[TIF2]

I am just fed up with people taking more and more of my hard earned money from my pocket. If there are ways to help keep cost down for all of us then lets do it.

There is no evidence that helmet laws have any effect whatsoever on increased costs to society.
Crazy that the same points of argument are stated without any new (or even existing) factual information for support.

Time for me to breakout the  ....

[rcamp2009]

Men and women have and still are giving their lives for our freedom and civil liberties. Stop harping about the money it cost us to keep them.

[09S/E roadglide]

 

Gets them every time!!!!  good job!

Nice closer !

[CVORick]

[qoute]If you prefer to live the way they did in the wild west, feel free to choose one of the many countries in the world where the people in power don't give a rat's butt if you live or die.  They don't waste time with safety rules.

Ouch! Like the "people in power" here give a "rat's butt" about this topic...

[indcoltz]

You can thank your insurance companies for any changes in traffic laws. They are the ones that send the lobbyists to the capital to bend the ears of the politicians. They are responsible for most of the traffic laws that you have to abide by. I'm a retired deputy, you should see all the information that has to be put into a traffic accident. This information is collected by the insurance companies and this is how the arrive at your premiums you pay. Do you think an officer cares if your driving a red or green car a 2 door of 4 door. The only thing an officer cares about at an accident is who was at fault. Insurance companies pick up these reports and  collect all of this data yes it makes a difference in your premiums in the color they will not tell you this but it does. Do you think an officer cares where everyone is setting in a car? It's added to the report. I promise you the insurance companies want us to wear helmets because they do not want to pay the high hospital bills associated with a head injury.

[moscooter]

" yes it makes a difference in your premiums in the color they will not tell you this but it does. "


  You know,  I tended to agree with most of what you said.......till I got to this part.   I'm not a fan of insurance companies and have my own sad tales of high and higher premiums, etc.

But I gotta say......My insurance company has not asked for nor do I believe they know what (color) my car/truck/boat, etc. happen to be.

[spydglide]

" yes it makes a difference in your premiums in the color they will not tell you this but it does. "


  You know,  I tended to agree with most of what you said.......till I got to this part.   I'm not a fan of insurance companies and have my own sad tales of high and higher premiums, etc.

But I gotta say......My insurance company has not asked for nor do I believe they know what (color) my car/truck/boat, etc. happen to be.

Gotta say that I now remember my insurance agent taking pics of the cars, boat, scooters, house, etc.. ..maybe I pay more for a cobalt blue SEEG?   dunno.  spyder

[Twolanerider]

Gotta say that I now remember my insurance agent taking pics of the cars, boat, scooters, house, etc.. ..maybe I pay more for a cobalt blue SEEG?   dunno.  spyder

It's not the bike that costs you extra Spyder; it's the helmet.

[spydglide]

It's not the bike that costs you extra Spyder; it's the helmet.

:drink:spyder

[indcoltz]

Everything you want to know about your vehicle is in your VIN ( vehicle identification number)
Bright color cars are less likely to be involved in an accident, like yellow. Again all the information that an officer takes and puts in an accident form is used by your insurance companies to charge you your premiums. Next time you have an opportunity to get your hands on a blank report, look at it and then ask yourself on most of the questions, what difference does it make. Accidents are not determined by the courts anymore on who is at fault. Use to be that way several years back. The officer would take down all that information and a judge would determine who is at fault. Now most states are a 50/50. This means if it is not totally clear who was at fault your insurance companies make the decision. If there is any litigation done in the courts now days it is only civil unless there was a crime involved in the accident. Trust me when I tell you, your insurance companies are responsible for the majority of the traffic laws that are on the books. Do you really think an officer cares if you are wearing a seatbelt or not? No he does not. Now your going to say why do they write tickets for this then. Well it's because every year the companies call your states governor and ask for it. Look at the billboards that read stuff like Operation pull over and usually you will find in small print sponsored by some insurance institute. I know this because I worked these grants and worked accidents for over 20 years and I do not think your insurance companies should have the right or power to get these laws passed. It should be an individuals right to wear a seatbelt or helmet.

[Billy]

Just curios why we are debating common sense . Why is it OSHA law to wear safety glasses  hearing protection  eye protection. Never see anyone arguing this point  Billy

[Screamin]

Didn't realize we were debating common sense. I thought it was big brother controlling yet another aspect of our lives.