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[dayne66]

Want to make a bet that they get E-bay involved and force them to comply?

It was done with sales tax....

I'm talking about buying directly from a US HD dealer and shipping to a US address....the "re-shipping" is the only part  purchased on e-bay ( and that can be done with-out e-bay.

[LarryB]

 




January 17, 2011

To: All U.S. Harley-Davidson Dealerships

Subject: PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy Update / New Third Party Internet Sales Policy

Dear Dealer:

At the December Executive Forum meetings Harley-Davidson announced a Third Party Internet Sales Policy pertaining to the sale of Genuine Motor Parts, Genuine Motor Accessories and MotorClothes® (PAM) products and clarification to the existing PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy. Realizing that not all dealerships were represented at the meetings, we want to ensure that all dealerships are aware of the new policy and the updates being made to the PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy.  An overview of the policies follows.

PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy

Effective August 1, 2011, a sale by a U.S. dealer of new and previously unsold Genuine PAM products will be considered a non-retail sale if the product is sold and shipped to any customer (including non-U.S. Harley-Davidson dealerships) located outside the United States.  A similar policy will apply to the sale of Licensed Products.

Third Party Internet Sales Policy

Effective January 1, 2012, the sale of new, current and previously unsold Genuine PAM products on any third party Internet website will be prohibited.  A similar policy will apply to the sale of Licensed Products.  

Details for each policy will be made available to the dealer network prior to the Winter Dealer Meeting.  

Sincerely,

 

Here you go

[martys]

so this is to say that an outstanding sales person (such as Jennie) will no longer be making record sales for the MOCO  unless we visit her at the store 

[Grizzly]

It doesn't say they can't, just that it "will be considered a non-retail sale".

Not sure how that will effect the dealers... May only effect their recording their points with the MoCo??? 
 

[Fired00d]

....
Here you go

Thanks.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Gank]

I have to ask our foreign brothers and sisters this question. When you speak of cost do you refer to what you pay when you walk into an H-D Dealership in Europe (and elsewhere) ? If so, a HUGE amount of your bottom line cost is shipping costs, tariffs and taxes. 1st, shipping costs have gotten to where they amount to at least a 40% increase in the MSRP of anything. So while we'll pay $100 for an item here stateside, you guys are going to pay $140 Then you add in the tariffs and taxes placed on those items by your country. And that is the biggest issue here. I bear no one any ill will wherever you live. Europe, Asia, South American, Russia whatever but there are very few consumer items sold here in the USA that we Americans pay a tariff on. I am not sure but I believe the luxury tax on certain brand autos expired some time ago. Your companies are free to sell their wares in the USA without the additional cost. As it appears to me every country in the world taxes or adds tarriffs to US goods shipped abroad. The playing field is not level. What it costs you as citizens of those countries is a lot of money to buy US made goods. What it costs us as Americans is jobs. When our companies can't compete with your domestic markets because of tariffs, the products don't get made so there's no need to hire people to do a job that doesn't need doing. Sorry if I've used this thread to rant about trade policies, but to my way of thinking, the entire issue comes down to just that.

B B

Yeah thats ok for the rest of the world.... but why cant I as a Canadian drive to Syracuse NY and buy what I like?  My government tells me I just pay HST and welcome... we have a Free Trade agreement... but HD will not sell to me.. with the Canadian $ worth more, thats huge savings for me... yet HD says I cannot.

Honda says I can so does victory... might have to look for something else

[martys]

Yeah thats ok for the rest of the world.... but why cant I as a Canadian drive to Syracuse NY and buy what I like?  My government tells me I just pay HST and welcome... we have a Free Trade agreement... but HD will not sell to me.. with the Canadian $ worth more, thats huge savings for me... yet HD says I cannot.

Honda says I can so does victory...might have to look for something else

I'm not buyin' that Gank  I know how much you love that SERG 

[Twolanerider]

Third Party Internet Sales Policy

Effective January 1, 2012, the sale of new, current and previously unsold Genuine PAM products on any third party Internet website will be prohibited.  A similar policy will apply to the sale of Licensed Products.

Unless I'm not understanding the letter there is nothing said here prohibiting Jenni (for example) to make the sales directly to her US customers just as she always has.  No website involved when parts are purchased from Jenni. 

Also don't see anything there that precludes purchases made at a dealer's own site.  Like Chicago Harley or Zanotti or Lake Shore.  Looks like their trying to crack down on stores selling on eBay.  They're prohobiting sales by dealers on "third party" websites.

[kraut]

I have to ask our foreign brothers and sisters this question. When you speak of cost do you refer to what you pay when you walk into an H-D Dealership in Europe (and elsewhere) ? If so, a HUGE amount of your bottom line cost is shipping costs, tariffs and taxes. 1st, shipping costs have gotten to where they amount to at least a 40% increase in the MSRP of anything. So while we'll pay $100 for an item here stateside, you guys are going to pay $140 Then you add in the tariffs and taxes placed on those items by your country. And that is the biggest issue here. I bear no one any ill will wherever you live. Europe, Asia, South American, Russia whatever but there are very few consumer items sold here in the USA that we Americans pay a tariff on. I am not sure but I believe the luxury tax on certain brand autos expired some time ago. Your companies are free to sell their wares in the USA without the additional cost. As it appears to me every country in the world taxes or adds tarriffs to US goods shipped abroad. The playing field is not level. What it costs you as citizens of those countries is a lot of money to buy US made goods. What it costs us as Americans is jobs. When our companies can't compete with your domestic markets because of tariffs, the products don't get made so there's no need to hire people to do a job that doesn't need doing. Sorry if I've used this thread to rant about trade policies, but to my way of thinking, the entire issue comes down to just that.

B B

sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. I just imported a piece of US machinery to Germany - as it's a comparatively cheap part, indeed shipping costs are significant, around 10 % of the entire bill.. Local taxes are 19 % plus 3,7 % customs all togehter adds up to 32,7 % .


As our H-D importer does not ship small quantities shipment costs are normally just forgettable, around 1 or 2 %. Lets say you have to put 35 % on top because of all this. That doesn't explain an MSRP in Germany of almost 72 % over MSRP US for exactly this piece of machinery  

[Spiderman]

sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. I just imported a piece of US machinery to Germany - as it's a comparatively cheap part, indeed shipping costs are significant, around 10 % of the entire bill.. Local taxes are 19 % plus 3,7 % customs all togehter adds up to 32,7 % .


As our H-D importer does not ship small quantities shipment costs are normally just forgettable, around 1 or 2 %. Lets say you have to put 35 % on top because of all this. That doesn't explain an MSRP in Germany of almost 72 % over MSRP US for exactly this piece of machinery  

To say I don't know what I'm talking about is a bit harsh. Perhaps I've got the exact numbers off and in some cases (as noted by you) off by a good margin. My point is that by your own admission there are tarriffs and I'll wager those tariffs are different for different products. I would expect that a product that was not available via a in country Mfg would not have as great a tarriff as one that was and so on. My point here was not to argue the exact numbers but to point out that we as US citizens buying a product made in our own country of course are going to pay less. Try to see the whole picture vice getting hung up in the exactitude of the verbiage.

B B

[martys]

Unless I'm not understanding the letter there is nothing said here prohibiting Jenni (for example) to make the sales directlyto her US customers just as she always has.  No website involved when parts are purchased from Jenni.  

Also don't see anything there that precludes purchases made at a dealer's own site.  Like Chicago Harley or Zanotti or Lake Shore.  Looks like their trying to crack down on stores selling on eBay.  They're prohobiting sales by dealers on "third party" websites.

This may be so Don but for the rest of the world it looks like the rules are changing.

PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy

Effective August 1, 2011, a sale by a U.S. dealer of new and previously unsold Genuine PAM products will be considered a non-retail sale if the product is sold and shipped to any customer (including non-U.S. Harley-Davidson dealerships) located outside the United States.  A similar policy will apply to the sale of Licensed Products.

Can anyone explain the term "non-retail sale" as it pertains to this new rule  

[sadunbar]

To say I don't know what I'm talking about is a bit harsh. Perhaps I've got the exact numbers off and in some cases (as noted by you) off by a good margin. My point is that by your own admission there are tarriffs and I'll wager those tariffs are different for different products. I would expect that a product that was not available via a in country Mfg would not have as great a tarriff as one that was and so on. My point here was not to argue the exact numbers but to point out that we as US citizens buying a product made in our own country of course are going to pay less. Try to see the whole picture vice getting hung up in the exactitude of the verbiage.

B B

And here I was convinced the product was mostly coming from China!           

[Spiderman]

And here I was convinced the product was mostly coming from China!           

Thanks for the laugh Scott. This thread needed some comic relief

B B

[martys]

Thanks for the laugh Scott. This thread needed some comic relief

B B

Well in that case... This must all be Dood's fault 

[Twolanerider]

This may be so Don but for the rest of the world it looks like the rules are changing.

PAM Non-Retail Sales Policy

Effective August 1, 2011, a sale by a U.S. dealer of new and previously unsold Genuine PAM products will be considered a non-retail sale if the product is sold and shipped to any customer (including non-U.S. Harley-Davidson dealerships) located outside the United States.  A similar policy will apply to the sale of Licensed Products.

Can anyone explain the term "non-retail sale" as it pertains to this new rule  

Under the dealership agreements the dealerships likely aren't licensed for non-retail P&A sales.  So that's the MoCo's polite way of telling the dealerships they can't make those sales.  And you're absolutely right about the export prohibition Marty.  Just because it doesn't bite us in the ass doesn't mean you're not effected. 

Still though; screw it.  Make up your parts lists and send them to me.