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[iski]

Spoke to Yaffe for quite a while at Daytona Bikeweek.  Excellent workmanship on bikes, heck of a nice guy. Plus very knowledgeable about his product & he obviously is involved in all the details.  Killer stereos, too!

[North Star]

[/glow]

Steroids and drugs  - getcha every time   

.....and money and fame.....

[Spiderman]

Steering this thread back on topic. What's the latest on OCC ? I've started a couple of threads asking for people who've seen OCC (Non Theme) bikes to post about it and we've had very very little feedback. I mean with 14,000 plus members world wide, that says a lot IMO. The entire OCC saga plays out like Greek Theater and the ones who will suffer in the end are the employees. Sure, people like Rick and a few others are likely to have job offers coming at them but can they accept unless Sr folds the company legally ? The non compete clause that was part of the storyline when the show ended would remain in effect whether OCC was open for business or not. So one year of at best collecting unemployment. And, if memory serves, Sr has shown in the past that he will do whatever he can to not allow a former employee collect benefits (perhaps somebody familiar with NY business rules/law can explain why he'd care) Anyway, while we don't see more than a dozen or so employees, I would expect OCC probably has (or had) a payroll of at least 100 people. That's a lot in a small market (motorcycle) area like where the OCC HQ is located. Just how many H-D dealers and Indy shops out there are there ? And in this economy how many are hiring.
It didn't have to be this way. As noted in the previous posts, Paul Yaffe has shown that you change with the marketplace. The Chopper craze has had two big surges in my lifetime. Maybe it will have a third before I'm looking at the wrong side of the grass. Who knows. What I do know is that baggers have always been popular with the market segment for them growing as the biker population ages. OCC could have gotten into building custom baggers. OCC from what we see on the show could most likely Mfg anything requiring machine tool technology,fabrication and finishing. Sr & Jr could have been businessmen and realized that whether they can work together or not they HAD a money making machine. That they failed to understand how much was at stake with their disfuctionalism is all the proof I need that they never really got it . They never quite caught onto what the wave they were riding was. I don't feel sorry for them in the least. Sr's 60ish and has a bad heart and with these steroid revelations is probably looking at a shortened lifespan. He's got enough money to last him for whatever time he's got left. Jr ? Who knows. He could build up Paul Jr Designs into a viable small business or he could fail. It all depends on how well he can see his customer base. He hasn't shown much ability to do so to date so I'd not put my money on his succeeding. I wish the employees of OCC well. Being out of work is not something I wish on anyone.

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[dlaws01]

Personally I'll be glad when they are no longer in the news or on a thread on this site or on TV.  JMO

[Spiderman]

Personally I'll be glad when they are no longer in the news or on a thread on this site or on TV.  JMO

And then what will we talk about - - - - oil ?   

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[dlaws01]

How about spark plug gaps?

[iski]

We live in a media driven society.  Undoubtably more choppers were sold - most likely to newbies - as a result of OCC on tv.  But except for displays and bike shows - not ridden - I never see OCC bikes on the road.  Anywhere.  Do not see as many choppers in general as 3-5 years ago.  Know quite a few folks that had them and then sold them.

When the economy recovers bike sales will also.  Does not mean an automatic recovery for OCC but if they are on tv, they will benefit.  Still figure they make good bucks on t shirts, etc.  Lots of money can be made in merchandising & still see a lot of OCC shirts. Considering what passes for tv entertainment these days, figure these guys are still not done.

[dlaws01]

 Considering what passes for tv entertainment these days, figure these guys are still not done.


You're right about that.  Next we will see people wearing tee shirts with feral hogs, lumber jacks or coal mines!

[Spiderman]

We live in a media driven society.  Undoubtably more choppers were sold - most likely to newbies - as a result of OCC on tv.  But except for displays and bike shows - not ridden - I never see OCC bikes on the road.  Anywhere.   Do not see as many choppers in general as 3-5 years ago.  Know quite a few folks that had them and then sold them.

When the economy recovers bike sales will also.  Does not mean an automatic recovery for OCC but if they are on tv, they will benefit.  Still figure they make good bucks on t shirts, etc.  Lots of money can be made in merchandising & still see a lot of OCC shirts. Considering what passes for tv entertainment these days, figure these guys are still not done.

So I ask again  WHAT did they build that $12,000,000 building for ?

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[Wild Card]

Steering this thread back on topic. What's the latest on OCC ? I've started a couple of threads asking for people who've seen OCC (Non Theme) bikes to post about it and we've had very very little feedback. I mean with 14,000 plus members world wide, that says a lot IMO. The entire OCC saga plays out like Greek Theater and the ones who will suffer in the end are the employees. Sure, people like Rick and a few others are likely to have job offers coming at them but can they accept unless Sr folds the company legally ? The non compete clause that was part of the storyline when the show ended would remain in effect whether OCC was open for business or not. So one year of at best collecting unemployment. And, if memory serves, Sr has shown in the past that he will do whatever he can to not allow a former employee collect benefits (perhaps somebody familiar with NY business rules/law can explain why he'd care) Anyway, while we don't see more than a dozen or so employees, I would expect OCC probably has (or had) a payroll of at least 100 people. That's a lot in a small market (motorcycle) area like where the OCC HQ is located. Just how many H-D dealers and Indy shops out there are there ? And in this economy how many are hiring.
It didn't have to be this way. As noted in the previous posts, Paul Yaffe has shown that you change with the marketplace. The Chopper craze has had two big surges in my lifetime. Maybe it will have a third before I'm looking at the wrong side of the grass. Who knows. What I do know is that baggers have always been popular with the market segment for them growing as the biker population ages. OCC could have gotten into building custom baggers. OCC from what we see on the show could most likely Mfg anything requiring machine tool technology,fabrication and finishing. Sr & Jr could have been businessmen and realized that whether they can work together or not they HAD a money making machine. That they failed to understand how much was at stake with their disfuctionalism is all the proof I need that they never really got it . They never quite caught onto what the wave they were riding was. I don't feel sorry for them in the least. Sr's 60ish and has a bad heart and with these steroid revelations is probably looking at a shortened lifespan. He's got enough money to last him for whatever time he's got left. Jr ? Who knows. He could build up Paul Jr Designs into a viable small business or he could fail. It all depends on how well he can see his customer base. He hasn't shown much ability to do so to date so I'd not put my money on his succeeding. I wish the employees of OCC well. Being out of work is not something I wish on anyone.

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I see this situation in a different light.  A large reason they are so successful IS the disfunctionalism rampant in that family.  Just based on their personalities, that family feud was likely to exist without the fame and success.  The show would have never taken off like it did, in turn creating demand for their bikes (even if it's largerly a demand for corporate show/celebrity bikes), demand for their merchandise and as you mention in your concerns, a lot of jobs.  Think of the jobs created not only at OCC but also at Discovery Channel and the production company involved.  Without the t.v. deal, far more jobs would be lost than the three mechanics that will get laid off due to the economy's effect on the motorcycle industry and OCC's reduced production.  Even when non-compete agreements exist, U.S. courts have sided with the employee in cases where the agreements were too binding.  

I think what you see on the show versus how the business is actually run are not necessarily the same.  Sr. capitalized on the chopper trend and now focuses the business on corporate bikes and merchandising and reality entertainment - the hottest trend for the past several years.  The money is still there for those items, so in effect, he's making the right move to keep as many people employed as possible.

Sure, he could steer the business into custom baggers but maybe he feels that trend is on it's way out and/or he's not interested in it and/or it would require significant re-tooling and ultimately not worth the effort. In any case, I'd bet that the profit margins are greater in corporate bikes, merchandise and t.v.  And at the end of the day, OCC is really more entertainment than it is a custom bike builder.  

[Spiderman]

I see this situation in a different light.  A large reason they are so successful IS the disfunctionalism rampant in that family.  Just based on their personalities, that family feud was likely to exist without the fame and success.  The show would have never taken off like it did, in turn creating demand for their bikes (even if it's largerly a demand for corporate show/celebrity bikes), demand for their merchandise and as you mention in your concerns, a lot of jobs.  Think of the jobs created not only at OCC but also at Discovery Channel and the production company involved.  Without the t.v. deal, far more jobs would be lost than the three mechanics that will get laid off due to the economy's effect on the motorcycle industry and OCC's reduced production.  Even when non-compete agreements exist, U.S. courts have sided with the employee in cases where the agreements were too binding.  

I think what you see on the show versus how the business is actually run are not necessarily the same.  Sr. capitalized on the chopper trend and now focuses the business on corporate bikes and merchandising and reality entertainment - the hottest trend for the past several years.  The money is still there for those items, so in effect, he's making the right move to keep as many people employed as possible.

Sure, he could steer the business into custom baggers but maybe he feels that trend is on it's way out and/or he's not interested in it and/or it would require significant re-tooling and ultimately not worth the effort. In any case, I'd bet that the profit margins are greater in corporate bikes, merchandise and t.v.  And at the end of the day, OCC is really more entertainment than it is a custom bike builder.  

You've got to be either a lawyer or a political operative.

You put more spin on this story than Jimmy Connors ever got on a tennis ball   


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[Wild Card]

You've got to be either a lawyer or a political operative.

You put more spin on this story than Jimmy Connors ever got on a tennis ball   


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Spin, or just another perspective?  Ha, not quite.  However, my wife's a lawyer.   

All I know is they've obviously done something right and it's easy to pick them apart from our couch when the only information we have is what's been edited for our entertainment by the good folks at TLC.   

[porthole]

If you look at the OCC show as anything more then entertainment then you are watching for the wrong reasons. TV land doesn't produce weekly shows because it is the right thing to to do.

Way not bash something really awful like American idol or apprentice?
Or New Jersey Housewives - or how about the worst piece of TV crap out now - Jersey Shore 

[spydglide]

If you look at the OCC show as anything more then entertainment then you are watching for the wrong reasons. TV land doesn't produce weekly shows because it is the right thing to to do.

Way not bash something really awful like American idol or apprentice?
Or New Jersey Housewives - or how about the worst piece of TV crap out now - Jersey Shore 

Yeah, but are they accurately representing your part of the world?  spyder

[porthole]

Yeah, but are they accurately representing your part of the world?  spyder

You are kidding - right