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[Liferjoesquid]

I have a 2001 FLTRSEI2 with 42k miles.  I changed out all my fluids last week.  I used a KN-171C oil filter.  It’s the first time I’ve used KN oil filters.  I have always used HD filters in the past.  Oil pressure has always run at 32psi when riding at speed (2500-3000 rpms). After changing the fluids, I went for a ride.  I noticed oil pressure was nearly zero at startup.  Not a big deal, it always does that on first start after an oil change.  This time, I noticed pressure climbed quickly to 60 psi as I was was revving when switching gears.  It settled back to 32 psi but would quickly climb towards 60 psi if I got into it.  I figured it was the filter.  I picked up a new HD filter at the local HD shop.  On the way home I noticed oil pressure was now acting normal, sitting solidly at 32 psi like it has always done when I’m riding at speed.

I went ahead and changed the filter anyway.  I added a little oil (HD Synth 3) to make up for the small amount lost during the filter replacement.  I started it up and it did the whole “shoot for 60” thing again when I revved the engine.  No external oil leak.  I have not taken the bike out.  I don’t want to ruin my engine.

Has anyone seen this before?

Thanks
Eric

[Twolanerider]

Don't automatically assume it must be an engine oiling problem.  Oil pressure sending unit could misbehave this way as could the gauge itself.  Start by just pulling the wire one and off the sending unit a couple times to make sure the connection is clean.  If that makes no difference plumb in a mechanical gauge if you've got one.  If you don't the sending units are cheap enough to just replace it to see if that makes a difference.  Swapping in a mechanical gauge would be your gold-standard test though.  Then you know for sure exactly what the engine is doing without any extrapolation based on resistance from the sending unit and gauge.

[Liferjoesquid]

Your troubleshooting logic makes sense.  However, I'm one of those "glass isn't half empty, it's totally empty because I dropped it and it shattered".....RARELY do I have a problem develop with ANY of my vehicles and it turn out to be simple.  I tend to assume the worst.  But I'll borrow a pressure testing unit and find out what's really going on.  Perhaps, this one time, I'll get lucky!

Eric

[grc]

As Twolane mentioned, the best approach is to start with the simple things.  Harley has had issues with sending units over the years, so that is a logical place to start.  Btw, you can do a quick and easy test of the gauge itself.  Disconnect the connector from the sending unit and turn the ignition switch ON.  The gauge should read zero.  Now ground the Brown/Green wire in the harness connector and the gauge should read full scale (approx. 70 psi).

If you install a mechanical gauge and still see the same issues, one possible cause could be a sticking pressure relief valve in the cam plate.

Jerry

[Liferjoesquid]

Wish I had a better update. I spent the majority of the day trying to figure out how to get to the oil pressure sender without having to totally disassemble the exhaust to get to it. Only had to disassemble half the exhaust!   and finally got the sender off.  And, of course, the pressure test kit I borrowed from work is missing one key adapter so I never did get to test the oil pressure system.  Remember my comment on the “empty glass”?  Today was a perfect example of how God never intended me to use a wrench!

Hopefully I can get an adapter tomorrow and get the oil system tested.  I’m starting to think the oil pressure relief valve would have been soooooooooo much easier to get to.

Eric

[Twolanerider]

Wish I had a better update. I spent the majority of the day trying to figure out how to get to the oil pressure sender without having to totally disassemble the exhaust to get to it. Only had to disassemble half the exhaust!   and finally got the sender off.  And, of course, the pressure test kit I borrowed from work is missing one key adapter so I never did get to test the oil pressure system.  Remember my comment on the “empty glass”?  Today was a perfect example of how God never intended me to use a wrench!

Hopefully I can get an adapter tomorrow and get the oil system tested.  I’m starting to think the oil pressure relief valve would have been soooooooooo much easier to get to.

Eric

Relief valve is part of the cam plate.  That's behind the exhaust and the cam cover.  It's also one of those things that if you're in that far you might as well replace lifters, inner cam bearings and cam chain shoes; all "just because."  So you really are better off still hoping it's just the sending unit or the gauge. 

Most auto parts stores have cheap oil pressure gauge kits.  Brass fitting assortments are available at a lot of parts stores and any good hardware/home supply store.  So coming up with what you need will (hopefully) be something you can easily do no matter what you need.  Keep at and still keeping my finger crossed you find an easy fix.

[Liferjoesquid]

It's not the sender.  Pressure did same thing once I put a mechanical pressure gauge on the bike.  I pulled the cam cover and removed the outer chain bolts.  I did not notice the tensioner spring shoe has a lip so when I started easing the chain off, it took part of the shoe lip off.  So now, on top of everything else, I'll need a new shoe.  My big question is, how do I remove the tensioner?

[J.D.]

If the outer shoe is that worn the inner is likely worse.

The tensioners are unloaded and pinned with a special tool.  Sure you can do it with a pliers but you'll likely damage something.

Good chance you've sucked some of that shoe debris into the oil pump and subsequently pumped through the oil passages.

Good time to holistically address a number of things in there...

[Twolanerider]

If I'm understanding what you've written correctly that broken outer shoe had not come apart and cycled its many and varied bits through the engine but, instead, you send the shoe to a sad and untimely death by trying to maliciously and with felonious intent YANK the chain past it?  FWIW there's normally not a big lip there.  If you had a lip it was from the chain having worn in to the shoe.

Ok, here's what I'd do and a little background.  And, by the way, you've actually gotten lucky.

Those shoes are notorious for early wear.  Even more notorious from coming apart completing and totally ruining an engine.  You caught yours before any of this happened.  So you're actually ahead of the game and should be pleased you got to where you are. 

At this point make the whole mess better.

There is a Screamin Eagle kit that is both worthwhile and (surprisingly for HD) cost effective.  You'll get a new cam plate (yours is at least questionable with probably/possible cam show much in the relief valve), new (and better) oil pump, new (and improved [really] chain tensioners, quieter chains and get it all as a kit.  HD part # 25284-11.  See it at the link below:

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/se-hydraulic-tensioner---oil-pump-upgrade

Significantly cheaper here:  https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/25284-11


You'll also want to replace the inner cam bearings at the same time.  The following link:

https://www.amazon.com/Torrington-B-148-Bearings-Harley-Davidson/dp/B07B5BTWSL


You could change cams now if you had a mind to (or not) but no matter what else you do you've actually hit a small jackpot by catching this now before those shoes came completely apart and trashed the engine.  You did good. 

You also don't need any special tools to assemble the cams to the cam plate with that new model plate.  You will need to get your old cams pressed out of the existing cam plate if you decide to use them again.  Only other specialty tool you'll need is the blind puller and the press to remove and reinstall the cam bearings.  If you don't have them and are disinclined to buy for a potentially one-off job say the word here.  I (and no doubt others of the brethren here) have something that can be borrowed.

[Twolanerider]

Just read back through the thread.  42k miles on original cam shoes?  Damn.....  That's not a record but it is a long time.  Many died terribly well before then.  You're doing ok .

[Liferjoesquid]

Twolanerider,
Thanks for all the info!  Yes, this being my first attempt at anything this involved with an engine, I made a rookie mistake and tried to force the chain off past the tensioner.  In my (rookie) defense, I watched a video on cam removal that was done on a newer Harley with the hydraulic tensioner.  I should have realized mine wouldn't be as simple because of the spring tensioner.

I am sold on the new cam plate, that would be a wonderful addition and I'm already this far into uncharted waters, might as well keep going.  I don't think I'll go as far as replacing the cams.  I'm going to have a hard time convincing my better half to let me spend $500 on this project as it is. 
You said earlier there is a special tool for removing the tensioner, do you know what that is?

[Liferjoesquid]

Twolanerider,
I forgot to add something.  I didn't suck any shoe parts through the engine.  It broke while I was trying to remove the chain.  No worries.

[grc]

Twolanerider,
I forgot to add something.  I didn't suck any shoe parts through the engine.  It broke while I was trying to remove the chain.  No worries.

While you most likely didn't suck any big parts through the engine, when those tensioner shoes wear they cast off lots of small particles.  That may be what is causing your pressure fluctuations, as that gunk gets into the pressure relief bore and valve.  I changed out my cam plate at about half the mileage you have because I was seeing abnormally low pressure compared to the previous normal.  The relief valve was in fact sticking.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Cam tensioner tool:

https://www.georges-garage.com/product/cam-tensioner-unloader/

Though, unless you've got a small arbor or hydraulic press handy you may not need that tool  You'll need to get the old cams out if you intend to re-use them.  If you don't have a press just take the cam plate to some local bike shop and ask them to remove the cams for you.  They'll deal with the tensioners in the process.  You won't need any special tensioner tool or press to reassemble the cams and tensioners in the new cam plate.

You do, however, definitely want to change the inner cam bearings while you're in that far.  Don't cut that corner.  For that you'll need at least a blind puller to get the bearings out of the engine.  Autozone likely has a puller set you can rent.  If spending another several bucks can be hidden from the wife I've seen some cam bearing puller/installer tool packages at Amazon for just over a hundred bucks.

[Liferjoesquid]

Sorry for the delayed response.  Life, work, and kids get in the way occasionally.  I didn’t remove the cam plate.  Instead I tried shooting some carb cleaner up the pressure relief valve to clean it out and see if that would temporarily take care of the problem.  After buttoning everything up, I cranked her over.  Pressure still doing the same thing.  I’ve pretty much convinced myself to do the cam plate kit replacement.  What would you recommend I do along with the cam plate kit?  Replace cams? Tappets? Inner cam bearings will be replaced.  Just trying to decide what else would be of value to do so I know what to budget for.  Thanks to all for the very sage advice that got me to this point.  I am serious when I say I cannot wait to hear the responses!!

Thanks
Eric