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[BTTE]

I'm sorry if this is going to be a super long description. The cliffs notes are that I have found excessive play (0.05") on the male connecting rod (front cylinder) at the crank pin. I am going to be rebuilding this motor myself and I need help choosing what parts to use. I will explain my goals in detail at the end. I get to the point and specify my questions starting at the orange text below in the second post.

A little background information ...

I have a 2016 CVO Street Glide with 49,000 miles. It's pretty much stock with the exception of a Covington Customs Destroyer exhaust and V&H FP3 tuner. I run the bike hard at 90-100 MPH regularly and often times in high temps. 3-4 trips from Detroit to Dallas and back per season (I typically do this straight through, about 1200 miles). I usually have a couple decent trips out to the East Coast and back etc. I get around 20k per year on this bike. I'm a big guy (about 350 lbs) so I'm probably pushing the weight limitations with loaded saddle bags and a large bag on the luggage rack. Add another 170lbs if I got the ol lady with me. That equates to roughly a half dozen or more 17 hour 1200 mile days in 90 degree plus temps while hauling around 500lbs. I dial it back a bit when I have the wife, we try to do around 600 miles per day or less. But that's approaching 700lbs on the bike. So basically I torture it all summer long 

That said, I do try to stay on top of my basic maintenance. I run down the entire PM checklist in the service manual every 5k with fresh Redline in all 3 holes.

Early in the season (around May) I noticed a LOUD chirp. If you've ever been in a machine shop, think about the sound you hear on a mill when trying to take away too much stock in one pass with an end mill cutter (metal on metal). My exhaust is EXTREMELY loud and I can hear clearly hear the noise at high speeds, radio turned all the way up, full face helmet on. Other bikes next to me hear it. It seemed to be most noticeable between 3000-3500 RPM. We were in Nashville when I first noticed the chirp. I pressed on to Dallas, all the way back to Detroit. Right back to Nashville the following weekend. Did another 5k trip in July with the wife. Aside from being super annoying I never noticed any other symptoms. No loss of power, no excess metal shavings on drain plugs etc.

I chased this damn noise around all summer long. I googled my ass off, I had several mechanics ride it and try to diagnose it. I wound up replacing a lot of parts.
I tried lubing the belt based on google search results, despite the fact that Harley seems to advise against it
SE Compensator (the stock one was pretty much shot anyway)
Transmission shaft inner primary bearing race and seal (I was right there doing the compensator so why not.)
Primary chain and tensioner looked fine
Inspected clutch release bearing and rod
Disassembled and inspected clutch basket and assy.
New lifters
Installed Rocker Lockers
New Breathers
Inspected and lubed all motor mounts
Checked for exhaust leaks (did not find any)
Removed and replaced exhaust gaskets anyway
New hose clamps for heat shields
Cut back exhaust heat shield where it had been rubbing on the rear brake pedal
Pulled the cam chest cover and found nothing out of place
Inspect rear wheel compensator (I probably should have just changed it)
Took apart the fairing looking for loose cables/wires rubbing
Disassembled the air cleaner and inspected the throttle body and butterfly valve thinking maybe it had become worn

None of this stuff made a bit of difference. I learned a LOT about working on my motorcycle in the process but I can't even put into words how defeating it was to pull the bike down off the lift and hear that noise after each attempt to resolve it.

Over 10,000 miles later around mid September, the noise had gotten noticeably worse. I had a 3000 mile run to Texas and Oklahoma coming up quick in the first week of October. I asked one of my club brothers to test ride it for me. He's a pretty knowledgeable guy, 50+ years in the club. Hasn't worked on a lot of Twin Cams but he's been riding Harleys and fixing them since my parents were kids. After the ride he looked at me and said. DO NOT RIDE THIS MOTORCYCLE TO TEXAS!

So I started tearing the motor apart. I didn't find anything out of line for a bike that has nearly 50k as I worked my way through the top end. When I got the jugs off I found the connecting rod for the front piston had a lot of vertical movement at the crank pin. I measured 0.05" with my dial indicator. I believe this is called a "rod knock"? If you managed to read my entire story above, I never heard a knock type of sound. It was a chirp I had been chasing. This is why I went through the trouble to explain the entire situation above. Maybe someone can shed some light on what I'm missing here. I'm pretty stumped on the noise. Maybe I was getting some piston slap and that's what I was hearing over the knock?

Either way, the wear between the rod and crank pin needs to be dealt with.

[BTTE]

The plan so far ...

I cannot afford to purchase a crate engine and I don't really want to take a gamble with a used one from a salvage etc.

One of my brothers owns a repair shop. He thinks he can have my crank case and rotating assy sent out. Connecting rods repaired or replaced with new bearings/bushings etc. Weld the crank pin. Clean up the case and install new bearings for around $800-$900 (his cost). If I can afford to, I might see about getting a left side Timken bearing modification done as well. As of right now, we are currently waiting on the quote.

He says I should be able to run my original cylinders. Not sure if they'll need to be honed or not. He can also get my heads cleaned up for me and ready to run for a relatively low expense.

What I need to figure out is what to do from here. I have 2 main goals

• Maintain as much reliability as possible
• Keep the costs down

I took the time to explain the type of riding I do, because I want to illustrate the importance of keeping this build as reliable as possible.

I have until the first Saturday in April 2020 to have this bike on the road. I can't afford to pour a bunch of money into this project all at once. But I can chip away at it little by little over the winter. Roughly $500-$1000 per month should be doable.

So with this in mind, I think it's best to stay away from builds that require things like. Case boring. Larger throttle body, injectors. Aftermarket heads. But at the same time, I would like to get a bit of performance gain while I have the entire thing torn apart. I don't really have the warm and fuzzy about throwing the OEM cam plate and oil pump back in with a fresh build. If the budget permits I'm hoping to get them replaced with Fueling parts. I have no idea where to even start when it comes to looking at cams. The reading I've done suggests that these engines are known to have low compression from the factory. It's my understanding that increasing compression will open up more possibilities for cam options. PLEASE ADVISE

I'm going to have to buy pistons. So far I am looking at 2 different options. Zippers is selling oversized High Compression 110 CVO Piston Kits available in 10.9:1 and 12.7:1 compression. https://www.zippersperformance.com/zippers-high-compression-110-cvo-piston-kits.html Honestly I don't know much when it comes to compression. I've always heard that you want to stay under 10.5:1 if you want a reliable touring build. I don't know if that's true. I believe these pistons are intended to be run with the stock CVO heads. I imagine the 12.7 option would require some amount of extra head work. PLEASE ADVISE

The other option I was looking at is Fuel Moto sells a 113 big bore kit. I think the cylinders will fit without any case modifications. But when I called them, they told me that I would need to upgrade my throttle body and injectors. So this option may prove to be too expensive at $1300 and I'm probably looking at around $700 for a 58mm TB w/injectors. Maybe more? https://www.fuelmotousa.com/i-23101734-fuel-moto-113-big-bore-kit.html#!year%3D2016%7C%7Cmake%3DHARLEY-DAVIDSON%7C%7Cmodel%3DTOURING%20FLH%2FFLT%20MODELS PLEASE ADVISE

On top of all that, it's probably time to get serious and ditch the Destroyer exhaust so that I'm not blowing all of my new upgrades out the back. I'm pretty much set on a D&D. Fat Cat or Boarzilla, whichever makes the most sense with the final build. I already have a Power Vision on my other bike, so I'm planning on getting another license and a Target Tune to go with this project.

Again I apologize for the enormous amount of information. Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated. Let me know your thoughts. What would you do? Am I on the right track here or are there other solutions that I have not discovered. Thanks in advance!

[HD Street Performance]

Sounds like you have done a thorough job of getting to the root of the issue. Personally I have rebuilt many of these 110s where guys just want reliability and a bit more performance. This entails a complete head rebuild with new bronze manganese guides, better seals, and lighter high quality dual or conical springs. The crank situation is easily fixed with a new S&S unit with full complement rod tops. Boring the stock cylinders, torque plated on Sunnen CV616, is my preferred method and most economical of cylinder work. That can be a small overbore or up to 113" at +.060. I use and am a WD for KB pistons. All bearings are replaced with the latest HD revisions. Oil pump is either stock or S&S 3 stage unit and cam plate. Cam is changed to something with a little more sensible lift rates VS stocker, a discussion that happens between the owner and myself to get to the bottom of what he really wants to accomplish determines the grind. The cam is tied to the static compression ratio so that decision is now made. All systems should be disassembled and cleaned. This includes the oil cooler, the oil cooler adapter and thermostat, and the oil pan off and cleaned all connection passages cleaned. New Johnson Hylift lifters with axle oiling and HD or Smiths adjustable pushrods. There are some things that are sold by many shops but this is where I start. I can do all the rest like timkens, case boring, head porting etc. After this is all said and done I recommend a dyno tune with a flash tuner such as TTS Mastertune.

[BTTE]

Hey thanks a lot for your detailed response! I really appreciate you taking the time to read over my post and make recommendations. I have several more questions for you.

Sounds like you have done a thorough job of getting to the root of the issue. Personally I have rebuilt many of these 110s where guys just want reliability and a bit more performance. This entails a complete head rebuild with new bronze manganese guides, better seals, and lighter high quality dual or conical springs.

I have read that the guides are a problem on these 110 heads and that the bronze maganese guides are the way to go. I would like to get a better understanding of what I should be looking at regarding seals and springs. Also get a rough idea of what I'm looking at spending on parts. Should I be looking at replacing the valves?

The crank situation is easily fixed with a new S&S unit with full complement rod tops.

I'm worried this is going to add too much cost to the project. MSRP from S&S is around $1500-$1600 for a complete rotating assy. Not sure what kind of supplier discount my brother gets but he said the markup is not much for him on S&S. I would certainly feel a lot better having a brand new rotating assy. I guess I would need to understand the bottom line price difference between sending out my crank case and stock rotating assy for repair ($800-$900 expected) VS buying new and sending out the crank case ($1500+???)

Boring the stock cylinders, torque plated on Sunnen CV616, is my preferred method and most economical of cylinder work. That can be a small overbore or up to 113" at +.060. I use and am a WD for KB pistons. All bearings are replaced with the latest HD revisions.

It sounds like I would need to invest in a larger TB and injectors if I overbore. I was really kind of focusing in on those 110 high comp pistons from Zippers that I mentioned above. Do you have any experience with or opinions about those?

Zippers is selling oversized High Compression 110 CVO Piston Kits available in 10.9:1 and 12.7:1 compression. https://www.zippersperformance.com/zippers-high-compression-110-cvo-piston-kits.html

Also can you help me understand what range of compression I should be targeting based upon my riding style and reliability concerns?

Oil pump is either stock or S&S 3 stage unit and cam plate. Cam is changed to something with a little more sensible lift rates VS stocker, a discussion that happens between the owner and myself to get to the bottom of what he really wants to accomplish determines the grind. The cam is tied to the static compression ratio so that decision is now made. All systems should be disassembled and cleaned. This includes the oil cooler, the oil cooler adapter and thermostat, and the oil pan off and cleaned all connection passages cleaned. New Johnson Hylift lifters with axle oiling and HD or Smiths adjustable pushrods. There are some things that are sold by many shops but this is where I start. I can do all the rest like timkens, case boring, head porting etc. After this is all said and done I recommend a dyno tune with a flash tuner such as TTS Mastertune.

I'm hoping I can afford a new Feuling cam plate and oil pump setup. I was originally looking at the TC3 from S&S but my brother was pretty adamant that I go with Feuling. Not sure why, I think they're both great companies. I think we can put the cam discussion on hold until I get everything else figured out.

Also, great information about disassembling and cleaning the oil cooler, adapter, thermostat and oil pan. I had not even thought about doing this. The nice thing is that I can get on this right now.

I attached a photo to illustrate how overloaded my bike could potentially be. This is from a month long trip and the amount of stuff was definitely overkill. I wound up flying my wife out to NC to finish the 2nd half with me. The duffle bag was filled with all of her gear which she wore and I shipped the bag and a few other things back to Detroit when I picked her up.

[HD Street Performance]

Decisions on what to do to the heads are usually based on inspection. The OEM guides are cast iron and require more clearance than a bronze mag guide. This is hard on any seal over time. So the decisions are not always condition based. The stock springs are OK but noisy at the harmonic point with the stock cam. The valves are fine, good part actually.

It sounds like your brother has a Drag Specialties dealer hounding him! Lots of times brand name decisions are made based on supplier pressure / incentives. I am independent and choose based on what has worked best for me. This includes happy to keep and use stock parts when they are up to the task. Lots of times the KISS principal works best. Aftermarket is not better always. S&S usually is better and they actually employ an engineering staff.

[BTTE]

I sent you a PM

[TorqueInc]

Bang for the buck

HD pistons or kb -flat tops .010 over
Rebuilt stock crank
Rebuilt heads with new parts including valves,springs,guides and seals
Cut heads to 91cc
Stock cam plate
Drag specialties hv pump
Zippers 587
Johnson hylifts lifters
No need for a timken bearing

Buy a tuner and have it tuned on a Dyno

Easy build

[1roadking]

With the amount of riding you do and how hard you like to ride, I would not cheap out on the build. I would talk to a few speed shops on the site and have them put together a proven package that’s reliable and picks up some performance. If your buying pistons and rebuilding strengthening your crank,  no matter what, you are going to be spending a chunk of change. Most people pass on the 113 set up these days and go right to a 117 with bolt on cylinders or go all in and bump to a 124 but that requires case boring. If you bought say a 117 bolt on kit from Suburban speed with 10.7 to 1 pistons it comes with all the supporting parts including the throttle body and injectors. As far as the crank goes, Darkhorse is highly recommended by everyone and is a little less then the S&S option. Spend now or spend later might as well do it once:)

[HD Street Performance]

Bang for the buck

HD pistons or kb -flat tops .010 over
Rebuilt stock crank
Rebuilt heads with new parts including valves,springs,guides and seals
Cut heads to 91cc
Stock cam plate
Drag specialties hv pump
Zippers 587
Johnson hylifts lifters
No need for a timken bearing

Buy a tuner and have it tuned on a Dyno

Easy build

Another way to get from a to b.
Note that stock pistons will need the bosses machined to fit accommodate full compliment rod tops if they are used instead of the factory rods. A rebalancing is needed if non-stock rods are used on a rebuild. It all adds up and the kb / s&s option is plug and play with better parts.

[BTTE]

Another way to get from a to b.
Note that stock pistons will need the bosses machined to fit accommodate full compliment rod tops if they are used instead of the factory rods. A rebalancing is needed if non-stock rods are used on a rebuild. It all adds up and the kb / s&s option is plug and play with better parts.

I'm inclined to agree. HD Street Performance advise has been real solid so far.

If I buy a brand new rotating assembly from S&S, is there any reason to send it along with the crank case out? Or can I just install new bearings into the case halves and bolt it up?

[HD Street Performance]

You got it, plug and play. Follow the service manual. I like to heat the case halfs so the bearings do not take any metal out when pressed in and out. There are some YouTube's out there but the ones I watched were pretty crude.

[prodrag1320]

rebuild the lower end with timken conversion 1100.00
113 kit 695.00
stage II headwork (325+ cfm,2.100/1.650 valves,bronze guides) 695.00
kibblewhite bee hive springs 169.99
S&S lifters 135.00
DRAG pump 150.00
bullet proof motor

[TN]

I'm inclined to agree. HD Street Performance advise has been real solid so far.

If I buy a brand new rotating assembly from S&S, is there any reason to send it along with the crank case out? Or can I just install new bearings into the case halves and bolt it up?

I did this myself earlier this year and went with the S&S crank, installed the SE lefty bearing in both sides. I did buy the speciality tool for this procedure from Georges Garage just for this application and it was a success. Got 10k+ miles on rebuild and very happy with it. Good luck with your build, it's a slippery slope once you start replacing things. 

[BTTE]

I did this myself earlier this year and went with the S&S crank, installed the SE lefty bearing in both sides. I did buy the speciality tool for this procedure from Georges Garage just for this application and it was a success. Got 10k+ miles on rebuild and very happy with it. Good luck with your build, it's a slippery slope once you start replacing things. 

Hey thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I needed to know. I'm fortunate enough to have access to all of the tools needed for the job. So what I'm trying to weigh out is.

A.) My brother insists that repairing my existing rotating assembly is going to save me half. He feels that an S&S setup still needs to be welded (I disagree based upon my research). He's is expecting a quote any day and thinks it will be around $800-$900 to repair whatever is wrong, balance, weld and install back into the crank case and return to me.

B.) Buy a brand new rotating assembly from S&S and move on.

I am really leaning towards option B. Especially after speaking with some of the members here. First off, he is not factoring in shipping to and from which is going to be around $100. So call it $900-$1000 to repair. MSRP on the S&S is like $1550 I think. I see them all over the place for much less. I believe his vendor pricing is more like $1350 ish. So with the in mind. It's not exactly saving me half. It's saving me $300-$400 and putting a band-aid on the situation.

So unless I'm missing something about the assembly process. I should be able to borrow tools from him and put it together myself without sending anything out and spending extra money.

[BTTE]

You got it, plug and play. Follow the service manual. I like to heat the case halfs so the bearings do not take any metal out when pressed in and out. There are some YouTube's out there but the ones I watched were pretty crude.

Makes sense. I actually used the same concept on my transmission main shaft bearing on my inner primary earlier this year. Map gas torch to heat up the casting and put the bearing in the freezer for about 30 minutes. I later found out that he meant for me to put it into the oven lol. Map gas is probably not ideal to be using on cast aluminum.