Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5 [All]

Author Topic: Lifter failure?  (Read 9528 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Lifter failure?
« on: November 05, 2019, 08:41:57 AM »

 Not sure what to do. 

I've got 26,500ish on my 07 Ultra  and in July of 2017 I did an up grade doing the work myself (plus a lot of help from the  generous sharing of knowledge from you boys on this site) at the time i didn't change the cam chain tensioners which is what I'm doing now, pic of inner and outer.

Now my problem is not with the tensioners but about week ago I developed a high rpm ticking I starts as I get up to 4000rpm after 4 it becomes much louder.  When I change up and  I'm in top gear and the rpm drops off the ticking is gone.

I'm thinking a lifter is failing,  they're S&S Cycle High Performance Lifters Tappets Twin Cam Harley 1999-17  they got about 8500 miles on them.  I also installed rocker lockers thought maybe something went wrong with those but they look pretty good.
There's no excessive wear on the rocker arms to valve stems,  cam lobes have no excessive markings.

From what I've described would it be fair to say it's a lifter or should I look at at something else that my be at fault?

Any ideas on how to check if it's a lifter ? I tried to push on them but can't move any of them they're filled with oil but like I said it's a mid high rpm fault.

I got the S&S lifters from USA V TWIN PERFORMANCE. What's S&S like for replacement of flailed components? 

Cheers for any advice
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 09:22:13 AM »

If the noise was not there previously and now it is then you have reason for concern.

I'm not a proponent of random parts swapping but this does sound like a lifter issue.

If you have adjustable pushrods, a lifter swap is pretty easy and inexpensive.

I would do the lifters and see what happens.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 09:48:38 AM »

If the noise was not there previously and now it is then you have reason for concern.

I'm not a proponent of random parts swapping but this does sound like a lifter issue.

If you have adjustable pushrods, a lifter swap is pretty easy and inexpensive.

I would do the lifters and see what happens.

I've got the bike pulled down now I was only going to check/replace the tensioners but this other issues started last week.
Unfortunately I didn't put adjustable pushrods in last time. So I had to get to the cams the long way round.  Will be installing them

It's only been 8500 miles,  I've got intouch with S&S and waiting to hear back from them.
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2019, 09:55:44 AM »

Those tensioners are fine.  It's typical to see that wear pattern.  When the roller part of the chain begins to ride on the tensioners the wear essentially stops.

The clatter you describe can be due to a lifter plunger sticking or not holding pressure at RPM.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2019, 12:07:32 PM »

I contacted S&S technical support this is their reply

If you are having this issue in low gears only the problem is not the tappet. the tappet has no way of telling what gear your in. if tt were the tappet it would do it under any load and at the same RPM. also if the tappet were failing it would clatter all the time not just from time to time. i suspect you have other issues going on. 

Think they misunderstood me,  the rapid tapping is in all gears when the rpm reaches 4000 and over rpm nothing in 6th gear because I not going to hit 4000rpm in 6th gear.

Is it not so that a tappet can function normally under light load but begin to fail as the load increases

Those tensioners are fine.  It's typical to see that wear pattern.  When the roller part of the chain begins to ride on the tensioners the wear essentially stops.

The clatter you describe can be due to a lifter plunger sticking or not holding pressure at RPM.

I don't know what else it could be that's going on. 

It's like what you would hear on a car that has manual adjusting tappets and just one was out of adjustment then rev up the motor over 4000rpm you would hear a fast rapid tapping,...it's a  distinctive sound,.....that's what I'm hearing at the 4000rpm range
Logged

hd-dude

  • Global Moderator
  • 5k CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6646
  • 2005 Cherry FLHTCSE2 "Obsession"

    • CVO1: 05 FLHTCSE2
    • Metal Dragon
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2019, 12:33:05 PM »

Since you have the tensioners out, replace them! Your noise could also be piston related. Have you looked inside the barrels with a scope? What cams are you running?

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 01:35:46 PM »

Since you have the tensioners out, replace them! Your noise could also be piston related. Have you looked inside the barrels with a scope? What cams are you running?

No don't have a scope,  cams are stock 255.  I did think of piston slap when I first started hearing it kind of dismissed the lifters as they're not very old but then thinking a piston is more of a light knocking rather than the ticking sound I'm hearing that has brought me to the valve train.

I will be changing the tensioners also I'll be installing the screamin eagle Premium Tapered Quick Install Adjustable Pushrods
Part#18404-8
I suspect my only option is to get another set of lifters .
Logged

TorqueInc

  • Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. Mark Twain
  • Vendor
  • Senior CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 391
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 04:08:06 PM »

No don't have a scope,  cams are stock 255.  I did think of piston slap when I first started hearing it kind of dismissed the lifters as they're not very old but then thinking a piston is more of a light knocking rather than the ticking sound I'm hearing that has brought me to the valve train.

I will be changing the tensioners also I'll be installing the screamin eagle Premium Tapered Quick Install Adjustable Pushrods
Part#18404-8
I suspect my only option is to get another set of lifters .
What do the lifters look like ?
If the rollers roll smoothly......aren't frosted bad
Some pushrod adjustment might clear up the tapping issue
Logged
2011 SG Sedona Orange 105" 125/123

www.jwperf.com

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 05:42:10 PM »

Lifters look like new rollers are shiny smooth cams the same a little scuffing on the walls of the lifters nothing major.


That's a good suggestion. 

I'd thought of putting the old stock lifters back in that i exchanged there wasn't anything wrong with them I just upgraded.
If I put the old once back in and that cures the problem. Then it'll be no problem in putting in another new set with the quicky rods
Logged

Priz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • MD


    • CVO1: 08 CVO Road King FLHRSE4
    • CVO2: 50 EL custom chop
    • CVO3: 76 FLH
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 06:22:14 PM »

 08 SERK approaching 30k here, so I'm wanting to see what's happening inside the motor as well. I have a hard time finding parts recommended for a 110 motor when looking for lifters. Many of the lifter posts I'm reading here are older threads. Some of the better brands from back in the day have quality issues now days, so...   

Is S&S still the recommended quality upgrade for lifters?
What brand adjustable pushrods do you guys recommend?
What's a good Cam bearing to install?
Just go to Harley for the cam tensioner shoes?
Logged
Problems cannot be solved using the same level of awareness that created them!

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 06:35:02 PM »

S&S lifters are good.  Same Delphi lifters as the old MoCo "B" lifters.

SE tapered pushrods are as good as any.  Whatever you choose be sure to know the adjustment thread size to set the preload correctly.

Koyo/Torrington/Timken inner bearing (uncaged full roller).
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2019, 10:22:56 PM »

08 SERK approaching 30k here, so I'm wanting to see what's happening inside the motor as well. I have a hard time finding parts recommended for a 110 motor when looking for lifters. Many of the lifter posts I'm reading here are older threads. Some of the better brands from back in the day have quality issues now days, so...   

Is S&S still the recommended quality upgrade for lifters?
What brand adjustable pushrods do you guys recommend?
What's a good Cam bearing to install?
Just go to Harley for the cam tensioner shoes?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/S-S-Cycle-Tappet-Set-Lifter-4-Lifters-Harley-Big-Twin-Cam-Sportster-1999-2017/133134916999?fits=Make%3AHarley-Davidson&epid=655003032&hash=item1eff759d87:g:IqwAAOSwVLVdSLtV


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Twin-Power-Replacement-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Shoes-07-17-Harley-Big-Twin-Cam-96/362538841374?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3Dee78cd42b183465e9d44080626bbec3a%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D172421583687%26itm%3D362538841374%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042

https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-premium-tapered-quick-install-adjustable-pushrods-18404-08#
Logged

Twolanerider

  • 25K CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50536
  • EBCM #1.5 Emeritus DSP # ? Critter Gawker #?
    • MO


    • CVO1: 2000 Triple Red Screamin' Eagle Road Glide
    • CVO2: 2002 Candy Brandywine Screamin' Eagle Road King
    • CVO3: 1999 Arresting Red FXR2
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 04:12:40 AM »

Have seen those Johnson lifters but haven't read anything on them.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 04:33:07 AM »

A bit of info on Johnson Lifters


WHAT MAKES THE HYLIFT-JOHNSON LIFTERS SUPERIOR TO OTHERS?
Hylift-Johnson lifters for Harley Davidson.
The original Harley Davidson Hylift-Johnson lifters are superior because they
have better bleed down specification for better valve lash control and higher
oil output capacity delivery for the valves. This in turn provides better
lubrication and cooling.
Q: Why does Harley Davidson no longer use Hylift-Johnson lifters, which were
originally designed for Harley Davidson?
A: Cost cutting measure. From 1998-2002 Hylift-Johnson lifters were O.E
part. In this time frame Harleys did not suffer from lifter associated problems.
2002 onwards Delphi brand units were used. They were unable to “copy” the
Hylift-Johnson internals (patented).
"From 1999 - 2001, Johnson-Hylift supplied lifters to Harley-Davidson...
Johnson-Hylift designed and produced a special piston and valve body
to work across the temp ranges and varying oil psi typically encountered
on an air-cooled engine such as the Harley. Since late 2001, HD has used
Delphi brand hydraulic lifters. That's why there was a Harley p/n change
from 18538-99 to 18538-99A and now 18538-99B. However, Delphi did not
use a 0.655" hi-volume / hi-pressure plunger piston and valve body
specifically designed for Harley as found in the Johnson-Hylift lifters.
Instead, Delphi essentially used a small block Chevy lifter. The main
difference is the Delphi lifter tries to boost the hydraulic psi by decreasing
the piston diameter, but this leads to a smaller high pressure oil reservoir.
The volume is too small and allows the lifter to clatter. That may be why
so many of the late model Twin-Cam bikes are noisy. After doing some
research AMS learned these Delphi version 18538-99B lifters are made too
small to stand up to Harley's heavy valve spring pressure. The oil reservoir
inside the lifter is too small. It doesn't hold enough oil to let the lifter bleed
off under normal use and still have a cushion of compressed oil to take up
valve train slack. Note: ALL lifters bleed off during operation and even
more-so when the bikes sits, engine off. "
Q: What other well known brands use Hylift-Johnson lifters?
A: S&S Cycle do! Excerpt from S&S Cycle website below.
“S&S offers high performance tappets for 1999-up Harley-Davidson® Twin Cam 88® and
Twin Cam 96™ engines and 2000-up Sportster® models. These tappets are a great choice for any
stock or high performance application. Only the finest materials and precision machining techniques
are used in the manufacture of these lifters, and strict quality control insures that they will work.

flawlessly every time, no matter what the application. Whether you have a stock 88 incher or the
most outrageous big inch engine with a radical cam and spring combination, S&S tappets are built to
take it. Sold as a set of 4, HL2T kit not included.

Harley-Davidson® part number 18538-99A/B.

S&S offers high performance tappets for 1999-up Harley-Davidson® Twin Cam 88® and Twin Cam
96™ engines and 2000-up Sportster® models. These tappets are a great choice for any stock or high
performance application. Only the finest materials and precision machining techniques are used in the
manufacture of these lifters, and strict quality control insures that they will work flawlessly every
time, no matter what the application. Whether you have a stock 88 incher or the most outrageous big
inch engine with a radical cam and spring combination, S&S tappets are built to take it. Sold as a set
of 4, HL2T kit included, requires the use of adjustable pushrods.
Note: All reference to H-D® part numbers is for identification purposes only. We in no way
are implying that any of S&S Cycle's products are original equipment parts or that they are
equivalent to the corresponding H-D® part number shown.” Q: Are there any other differences, which make Hylift-Johnson lifters
superior?
A: Yes. Because Hylift-Johnson lifters are made in the U.S, they are made
from superior material content, the Nickel & Moly content is higher than others
on the market including O.E.
For superior slow leak down and heavy valve spring pressures we
recommend part number A-2313S (twin-cam models)
 A-2303 A-2313
Summary: If you want the best quality and less rattle,
insist on Hylift-Johnson lifters for your Harley!
Retail inc Dealer exc
A-2303S LIFTER EVO H/DUTY EACH 86.25 56.25
A-2303S/4 LIFTER EVO H/DUTY [SET 4] 345.00 180.00
A-2303/4 LIFTER EVO STANDARD [SET 4] 345.00 180.00
A-2313S LIFTER TWIN CAM H/DUTY EACH 86.25 56.25
A-2313S/4 LIFTER TWIN CAM H/DUTY [SET 4] 345.00 180.00
A-2313/4 LIFTER TWIN CAM STANDARD [SET 4] 345.00 180.00
NOTE: Heavy duty Hylift Johnson Lifters are suitable as stock OEM replacement as well as performance applications
Logged

Eqcons

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3839
  • A Harley isn't just for Christmas, it's for LIFE!

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 06:07:28 AM »

I had good results on a previous 110 with Feuling FE4000 lifters. (As recommended by Don twolane!)

Jim
Logged
'14 FLHTKSE
'94 Ford Escort Cosworth, 320BHP & just 19,000 miles, owned since new
'17 Ford Focus RS
'21 Toyota GR Yaris

TorqueInc

  • Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. Mark Twain
  • Vendor
  • Senior CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 391
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 12:42:36 PM »

S&S lifters are good.  Same Delphi lifters as the old MoCo "B" lifters.

SE tapered pushrods are as good as any.  Whatever you choose be sure to know the adjustment thread size to set the preload correctly.

Koyo/Torrington/Timken inner bearing (uncaged full roller).
S&S lifters are made by Eaton.....the premiums anyhow
The regular replacement lifters are probably offshore

To all.....keep in mind there's two Johnson lifter companies
Hy-lift Johnson makes woods lifters and others
Johnson lifters makes fueling

Main reason I don't use fueling lifters
Logged
2011 SG Sedona Orange 105" 125/123

www.jwperf.com

Twolanerider

  • 25K CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50536
  • EBCM #1.5 Emeritus DSP # ? Critter Gawker #?
    • MO


    • CVO1: 2000 Triple Red Screamin' Eagle Road Glide
    • CVO2: 2002 Candy Brandywine Screamin' Eagle Road King
    • CVO3: 1999 Arresting Red FXR2
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2019, 04:29:35 PM »

I had good results on a previous 110 with Feuling FE4000 lifters. (As recommended by Don twolane!)

Jim


Haven't used them in awhile myself but I did always have good luck with the standard Feuling lifters.  The same couldn't be said for their more expensive race lifters though.  Knew of or experienced a few failures with their "race" lifters.  Anymore I use the HyLifts.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 07:19:26 PM by Twolanerider »
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2019, 05:29:29 PM »

Best I've personally used are the SE version of the MoCo "B" lifters.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2019, 07:44:20 PM »

Well I've ordered up the Screamin' Eagle Premium Tapered Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods
Part Number 18404-08
I've also ordered up a set of Twin Power  cam chain tensioner shoes that'll be going in.

Once I receive them I'll put the motor back together with the stock lifters I replaced with the S&S high performance lifters.
It's going to be a bit of a hassle but it's the only way I can think of to determine if it's a lifter failure that's making the noise if the noise is still there then it's back to the head scratching.

I maybe jumping on the bandwagon here a bit premature but if it turns out to be one of the S&S lifters I'll be pissed. This is the hole reason I forked out for S&S lifters to avoid any issues that the stock lifters may have given me and here it is the bloody S&S lifters I'm fairly confident that letting me down.
Okay that's me rant for now.  :(
Logged

hd-dude

  • Global Moderator
  • 5k CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6646
  • 2005 Cherry FLHTCSE2 "Obsession"

    • CVO1: 05 FLHTCSE2
    • Metal Dragon
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2019, 11:17:08 PM »

As previously mentioned you may be able to get rid of the noise with pushrod adjustment. I would take the S&S lifters apart, clean them as there could be debris from the tensioner in them and reinstall them.

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2019, 09:32:00 AM »

Agreed, if the rollers are good and tight, roll smoothly and do not have visible wear you definitely can disassemble and inspect the plungers and clean them out.  Hard to determine if the check ball is holding by inspection though.

Although it's somewhat of a common practice, I'd not recommend adjusting the preload out of spec.  This is just compensation for another problem, essentially turning a hydraulic lifter into a solid lifter.

Bottom line, when you get lifter noise, generally the solution is to install a fresh set.  They're not too expensive and with adjustables is a fairly quick and easy job.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2019, 12:55:56 PM »

Thanks for the input guys,   like you said( 2002FXDWG3 ) with the quicky pushrods it'll take no time to pull the lifters that's why I'm going to put the stock lifters I took out back in and hopefully there will be no tappet noise (they were good when I removed them).

If the tappet noise is gone I'll then do as suggested strip the S&S ones down clean them up put them back in and give them another go.
I really don't want to lay out for a new set at the moment these S&S lifters  only got roughly 8500 miles on them I'll exhaust a my options first.
Logged

TN

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2939
    • SC


    • CVO1: FLTRSE3
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2019, 08:42:00 AM »

Longlast, have you checked for witness marks on the rocker shaft where the bolts for the rocker support plate are? If so there is a simple fix for this.

Good luck
Logged
Wut the hell was that maneuver

HD Street Performance

  • Vendor
  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3118
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2019, 08:46:23 AM »

Do not discount what HD-DUDE said about cleaning the lifters. Our beloved Vtwins do not have the best filtration system plus many don't run 5 micron filters (which BTW is "nominal"). Two places the tensioners end up in are lifters and piston jets. Not good in either case. I am talking normal wear not because of a failure. There are no magic better tensioners needed.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2019, 12:58:57 PM »

Longlast, have you checked for witness marks on the rocker shaft where the bolts for the rocker support plate are? If so there is a simple fix for this.

Good luck

TN if you're meaning it maybe rocker shaft slap,  I have rocker lockers installed and did check they were good also had a check on the rocker arms they too are in good shape.

Do not discount what HD-DUDE said about cleaning the lifters. Our beloved Vtwins do not have the best filtration system plus many don't run 5 micron filters (which BTW is "nominal"). Two places the tensioners end up in are lifters and piston jets. Not good in either case. I am talking normal wear not because of a failure. There are no magic better tensioners needed.

 :2vrolijk_21: will be doing that.  I spent today making up a jig to hold the lifters in place while I compress the cylinder to release the retainer clip.
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2019, 01:43:43 PM »

I clamp them in a vise with rubber jaw covers and use a cut pushrod to put a little pressure on the cup while I pick out the retaining clip with a little screwdriver.
Logged

HD Street Performance

  • Vendor
  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3118
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2019, 01:59:06 PM »

Sounds good, a rounded off bolt works too
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2019, 02:31:49 PM »

Sounds good, a rounded off bolt works too

That's what I did, today I rounded the end off on a bolt to put in the cap. I just drilled a  hole the diameter  of the lifters in a peace of wood then clamp the block of wood in the vice then with a "C" clamp and the bolt compress the cap.


I clamp them in a vise with rubber jaw covers and use a cut pushrod to put a little pressure on the cup while I pick out the retaining clip with a little screwdriver.

I first tried to push on them by hand but I couldn't move them
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 02:37:20 PM by longlast »
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2019, 03:43:15 PM »

Never said it's easy  :huepfenjump3:
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2019, 09:37:26 AM »

Once I got into it it did become quite easy.  Didn't see anything that stood out other then a small very small amount of slug sitting in the bottom.

There was a mention of the oil filter microns size, I'm using HIFLO FILTRO  171C that I believe to be 5 micon filter.

Harley recommends a 5 micron filter if I'm not mistaken.
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2019, 10:09:00 AM »

The MoCo filters are pretty good.  Media looks to be high quality.  K&N is supposedly good as well but I haven't cut one of them open and inspected the media myself.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2019, 02:37:03 PM »

My cam/timing chain tensioner shoes are on a tour on your side of the pond. I've just been checking on the progress of the delivery.

 So far they have visited,...Southeastern PA,   then Zieglervill PA,  off to Philadelphia,  a hop over to Cincinnati  OH,  now at the moment they're having a pit stop in Erlanger  KY.

Couldn't find just the shoes over here only could purchase the complete tensioner units at a much higher cost.
Removed the lifter from the old shoes gave them a clean up now they're already to put in the new shoes when they arrive.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 02:39:17 PM by longlast »
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2019, 04:21:17 PM »

Those old tensioner shoes look perfectly fine to me.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2019, 04:50:21 PM »

Those old tensioner shoes look perfectly fine to me.

I agree there're not bad but I thought what the heck I got it open i put new ones in.

There're really a lot better then I thought they'd be with almost 27,000 miles on them.
  I've read a lot of different opinions on the checking and issues with these shoes.  I'm not sure but I think it was an S&S video on changing the shoes and they recommend to check the shoes every 10,000 miles especially the inner cam chain tensioner they say that the inner shoe can be worse off then the outer. Not to assume the inner is good if the outer is good

Mine the inner one is in better shape than the outer one.

Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2019, 04:53:38 PM »

The old Morse chains ate up tensioners and need frequent inspection/replacement.  The full roller chains will wear down until the rollers are riding on the tensioners then pretty much stop wearing.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2019, 05:05:53 PM »

The MoCo filters are pretty good.  Media looks to be high quality.  K&N is supposedly good as well but I haven't cut one of them open and inspected the media myself.

I've been running with HIFLO filters for some time now and I've opened up the motor two times now and  it's just as clean this time as the first.
I took note of checking the cam cavity for any sludge building up in the corners or anywhere but it was very clean so I'm quite happy with the job HIFLO Filters are doing,....for me anyway
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2019, 09:27:51 PM »

 
 These arrived today £50 delivered from the USA. Couldn't find just the shoes over here only the complete assemblies an extra £30

 Anyone used these from Twin Power ?
 They have a few videos out but don't say anything about how the shoes durability is (what sort of mileage one can expect from them) they do say stock shoes should be checked every 10,000 miles but nothing on theirs.

Tomorrow  I should have it all buttoned up the rocker assembly's I did the other day then the test run.

 I couldn't find any obvious signs/reason for the loud what I believe too be tappet (lifer) noise.
I'll be putting the stock lifters back in and run them and see if the ticking noise is gone or not if it is then I'll swap over (now I've  got the quick adjustable pushrods) and put the newish S&S lifters back and see if it returns.

I did a overhaul cleaning of the lifters. I've changed the oil "btw" the oil plug was completely clean of any particles on the magnet .

 
Logged

HD Street Performance

  • Vendor
  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3118
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2019, 09:46:43 AM »

Go back to post #5 Common problem and often times confused with lifter rattle.
HD-Dude works on these every day.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2019, 12:35:09 PM »

Go back to post #5 Common problem and often times confused with lifter rattle.
HD-Dude works on these every day.

 Haven't forgotten about the post from HD-Dude since he mentioned it,......I've just not wanting to say it out loud  ;) :D



 
Logged

timo482

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 860
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2019, 04:36:10 PM »

So much is oriented to “performance”.  There are a lot of owners wanting to repair and maintain. This thread is very interesting
Logged

Priz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
    • MD


    • CVO1: 08 CVO Road King FLHRSE4
    • CVO2: 50 EL custom chop
    • CVO3: 76 FLH
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2019, 07:14:41 PM »

Ditto, watching this thread closely. Thanks for putting it out here for is. Pretty confident I will get S&S lifters, quicky pushrods and torrington bearings now when I'm ready to dig in. Im also told not to change the chains as they dont really stretch but deburr or polish the outside surface if the tensioners are wearing.
Logged
Problems cannot be solved using the same level of awareness that created them!

HD Street Performance

  • Vendor
  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3118
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2019, 09:17:39 PM »

Do not polish the chains. They are fine as-is. Can create more problems polishing them.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2019, 10:51:53 PM »

Ditto, watching this thread closely. Thanks for putting it out here for is. Pretty confident I will get S&S lifters, quicky pushrods and torrington bearings now when I'm ready to dig in. Im also told not to change the chains as they dont really stretch but deburr or polish the outside surface if the tensioners are wearing.

Here's the difference between the stock bearings (right) and Torrington full compliment bearings (left)
Bearings can be pulled with a blind end puller and slide hammer.  The puller and bearing install kits are low cost on Ebay
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2019, 09:36:25 AM »

That's the motor back together.
  What a performance not having Quick adjustable pushrods just to check cam and timing chain tensioners (or bolt cutters)
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2019, 09:40:06 AM »

The pushrod cover tubes don't really look that bad even with the extended inner tube cover
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2019, 09:46:48 AM »

Have you had this issue?  The left exhaust support bracket tab broken. It's the only fixed support for the left from the slip-ons up.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2019, 09:51:30 AM »

Going  to have to beef this tab up so it can do it's job.
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2019, 11:07:38 AM »

Yes those break often.  Could easily be the source of your noise (if it was broken before this work started of course).
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2019, 12:13:12 PM »

Yes those break often.  Could easily be the source of your noise (if it was broken before this work started of course).

Found it broken when j was removing the exhaust

Perhaps this will hold :confused5:

Logged

bungie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • www.CVOHARLEY.com
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2019, 02:20:59 PM »

Have you had this issue?  The left exhaust support bracket tab broken. It's the only fixed support for the left from the slip-ons up.

That's your noise  :bananarock:
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2019, 06:47:45 PM »

That's your noise  :bananarock:

 Suppose it's a possibility  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2019, 07:07:30 PM »

If you are reusing the exhaust clamp that holds that piece be very sure the bolt moves freely through the center block.  Follow the exhaust installation instructions carefully when aligning and tightening everything.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2019, 08:22:45 PM »

If you are reusing the exhaust clamp that holds that piece be very sure the bolt moves freely through the center block.  Follow the exhaust installation instructions carefully when aligning and tightening everything.


 Noted:  :2vrolijk_21: 

  The pipes are going on tomorrow.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2019, 08:23:17 AM »

All back together,.......... :'( :confused5: :confused5: :drink: enough to send a man to drink it won't start  :-[  Need a  :drink:

 Left it for the night pondering what did I mess up on the timing couldn't sleep what the rrrrrrrr did I do wrong swimming though my mind.

Then after a good night's restless sleep one of the thoughts kept wondering by that I was dismissing it couldn't be that easy.

This mornin I checked what I thought "no I'm sure it's not that"  :P yup I did it PUT THE PUG WIRES WRONG WAY ROUND on the coil..  ::)

Fired up straight away right way round.

Still got the ticking.  I'm doing a recheck on the pushrod adjustments writing this waiting for the tappets to bleed down.
Then try it again
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2019, 10:58:01 AM »

 :huepfenjump3: :pepper:
Finished up resetting of the lifters "don't know what happened the first time round " fired it up and no more issues noise gone.


I also replaced the V&H slip-on's got a good good  deal on a pair of eagle slip-ons removed the fuel pak plugged straight back into the ECM.
Went for a run and it runs great sounds great.  So the noise must have been one of the S&S lifters that was clacking like a duck.

The table lift worked out great ,it's packed away till next time, l hope isn't too soon

End of the day it has all ended well (knocking on my head) :cherry:

Thanks for all the input  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2019, 11:27:08 AM »

Well done  :2vrolijk_21:
Logged

johnmowcop

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 237
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2019, 01:03:42 PM »

Did the same myself first time I fitted adjustable pushrods and new lifters. Started it up and one was ticking. Checked all the pushrods and the last one I checked was too slack (I must have set it with some lift on the cam). Set it properly and all was well.
It's a nice feeling isn't it when you start it and the noise has gone.
JohnT
Logged

timo482

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 860
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2019, 06:18:28 PM »

last winter i installed new lifters. 35000 miles on a 07
found one spot of missing hard surface on one roller 1mm x 2mm i think ill do the next at 20000 miles.
decided to remove the valve covers, inspect valve springs and use stock pushrods, i had various issues with pushrods on shovels and there are no adjustment issues with solid pushrods.
its uses zero oil so i do not want to mess with cylinders or heads in any way as long as it keeps running this clean.
installed the new stamped breathers - the shorter bolts are a godsend compared to the bolts on the cast breathers.
runs perfect.

every 20000 interval for lifters is probably a good idea, next time ill replace the cam bearings too.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2019, 06:54:59 PM »

last winter i installed new lifters. 35000 miles on a 07
found one spot of missing hard surface on one roller 1mm x 2mm i think ill do the next at 20000 miles.
decided to remove the valve covers, inspect valve springs and use stock pushrods, i had various issues with pushrods on shovels and there are no adjustment issues with solid pushrods.
its uses zero oil so i do not want to mess with cylinders or heads in any way as long as it keeps running this clean.
installed the new stamped breathers - the shorter bolts are a godsend compared to the bolts on the cast breathers.
runs perfect.

every 20000 interval for lifters is probably a good idea, next time ill replace the cam bearings too.

What lifters did you install?

But a lot more work to pull them.

I changed the stock lifters in my 07 at 18000 miles to S&S. At the time the stock ones were fine just upgraded to a better lifter "least I thought " one S&S failed  with 8500 on it, now the stock lifters are back in.  At the time was running solid pushrods.
Logged

longlast

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4055

Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2019, 07:00:02 PM »

Well done  :2vrolijk_21:

Thank You kind Sir :2vrolijk_21:


Did the same myself first time I fitted adjustable pushrods and new lifters. Started it up and one was ticking. Checked all the pushrods and the last one I checked was too slack (I must have set it with some lift on the cam). Set it properly and all was well.
It's a nice feeling isn't it when you start it and the noise has gone.
JohnT

That it is.   :2vrolijk_21:
Logged

timo482

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 860
Re: Lifter failure?
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2019, 12:24:49 PM »

hylift lifters, yes its more work, but the umbrella valves are known to go bad, so i did the upgraded housings, and could verify all else is good. so it was still quite a bit cheaper. i searched all over and got all the gaskets and the breathers for less than a hundred bucks. all HD parts. lifters for 75 dollars. cash out of less than 175 for the job.

one gotcha was the o rings on the fuel line. they were bad and had to be replaced but other than that it was really pretty easy.

i run a sidecar - and adjusting push rods from above leaning over the bike.....

bike is paid for, is plenty fast, we want to keep it as long as we can ride.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 5 [All]
 

Page created in 0.307 seconds with 24 queries.