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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: Nicky Pass on March 25, 2015, 10:07:40 AM
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I'm going to order Dresser Duals and Oversized 450s soon and I was thinking of using the FP3 for a tuner. I haven't rode the bike yet and it only has one mile....and I don't want to dyno it if i don't have to. I've used the Power Vision with good results, but using the phone seems like a good idea.
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Its just a basic tuner, do not think its the next coming.. And the data transfer rate on Blue tooth vs the ecm??? Thats just plain funny. Gimmick nothing more. Do your self a favor buy the right tuner, spend the money to have it tuned correctly.
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I have the FP3 with Power duals and Monster Rounds on my 2014 CVO Road king. Works great. A lot more torque and power. No issues and very easy to set up. I did not even have to do the auto tune... Did not see the point. Flashed the map and that was it.
Also, Cool to see all the data on the iPhone real time as you ride. Gadget? may be for the phone part but works much better than expensive tune and cams on my other Road king (2003 with big bore stage 2 and tune).
I kept the old bike, a 100 anniversary road king classic with True Duals/monster rounds for all the memories but the new one (with the FP3) smokes it and runs smoother.
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I have the FP3 with Power duals and Monster Rounds on my 2014 CVO Road king. Works great. A lot more torque and power. No issues and very easy to set up. I did not even have to do the auto tune... Did not see the point. Flashed the map and that was it.
Also, Cool to see all the data on the iPhone real time as you ride. Gadget? may be for the phone part but works much better than expensive tune and cams on my other Road king (2003 with big bore stage 2 and tune).
I kept the old bike, a 100 anniversary road king classic with True Duals/monster rounds for all the memories but the new one (with the FP3) smokes it and runs smoother.
Or maybe the tuners did not do a good job on your bike and that you do not have any idea how well the bike is or is not running as you have no way to check the tune.
Good luck I am sure its the best :nixweiss:
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GMR, I agree with you that I could have squeezed an extra 3 or 4 hp from a good tune but this set up already gets me way more than I need. Huge torque down low and incredible acceleration. If I wanted more I would get a Suzuki hayabusa or a BMW s1000RR. I have already been there...
To each his own but that is not why I got a Harley.
To me, ease of use was a great selling point. In addition, Vance and Hines offers a map for my exact bike (2014 CVO RK) with my exact set up (V&H header and pipes). I trust V&H to know what they are doing more than my local Harley dealer. I have been there as well with 3 tunes from 2 diff dealers on my other bike.
I would bet I am already getting 95+ hp and 110+ of torque...and I get the torque where I want it to be, between 2500 and 3500 rpm not at 3500+rpm.
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I was not talking about peak numbers per say. Its not uncommon for us to tune the same builds with the same tuner and see +/- 10% changes. So the idea that a canned map is the complete tune is just not true. I do agree that the bike runs well but a canned map will never be what it should it is just not possible, way too many variables exist with these engines.
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I Bought the FP3 for my new 2015 CVOSE. Extremely easy and my bike runs great with the canned tune. I'm running the Fulsac stainless header with the V&H HO mufflers.
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i will be going with the fp3...and i personally do not believe a vendor who tells me that there is a possible range of 20% between tunes on the same build on two identical bikes on the same day...+/- 10%...not buying it...maybe from untuned to tuned, but not two tuned bikes...on our bikes that would be a total difference of nearly 20 HP between the two
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20% of the ve number not 20% on power to be clear I never stated power you did.
And for the record I do not care if you believe me or not.. You can do what ever you want to your bike. If you think the tuner is the best well then great.. I tune for a living and see all of them.. And the fact is its a basic simple tuner,... with more smoke and mirrors than you can imagine.
I can take a 100% stock bike add a tuner ( PV TTS SEST) and re tune the stock bike and see 10% changes and we will see a nice increase in power drivablility as well.. Canned map for one bike is just that one bike..
But like i said good luck enjoy the tuner and I must have no idea what I am doing, 200 plus bikes a year must all be wrong,.. :D :D :2vrolijk_21:
Or before stating I am full of it ,.. do the research and prove your point. I dont need to prove anything I know what the facts are as I have used them all. DO not think for one minute that I am all about brand X tuner.. I tune all of them. You get to see what works extremely well and what is a so-so tuner. Its a basic cal with a program that will use the stock 02 sensors to make corrections. Great but there is so much more to a tune than just a VE table..
Good luck I am sure it will be far better tuned than anything else out there. This is the same thing everyone said about the fuel pak as well how great it was yada yada.. Then guys found out that was BS and now this new version well its the best.. Funny if its that simple then why does SE PV and TTS all add so many more features.. Could it be that you really need those if you want to do the job correctly?
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i will be going with the fp3...and i personally do not believe a vendor who tells me that there is a possible range of 20% between tunes on the same build on two identical bikes on the same day...+/- 10%...not buying it...maybe from untuned to tuned, but not two tuned bikes...on our bikes that would be a total difference of nearly 20 HP between the two
A canned map vs. a bike tuned by a real tuner (not dyno operators) is no comparison. Tuned bike wins that argument. You can cut corners but you really do get what you pay for.
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How come I see a lot of people rant against the FP3 map but I do not see anyone criticize Fullsac for using a map on their system as well. Two very good choices...
Fullsac seems to know their stuff and have a lot of satisfied customers. Great system if you want the stock look and want to save a little money as well.
For people who like the Vance and Hines look and sound (I am one of them) the FP3 is an excellent choice.
I think they are both great alternatives...
I have seen a lot of great reviews of both online.
I just do not get the V&H FP3 bashing...seems very selective...
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Isn't Fullsac a canned tune as well?
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How come I see a lot of people rant against the FP3 map but I do not see anyone criticize Fullsac for using a map on their system as well. Two very good choices...
Fullsac seems to know their stuff and have a lot of satisfied customers. Great system if you want the stock look and want to save a little money as well.
For people who like the Vance and Hines look and sound (I am one of them) the FP3 is an excellent choice.
I think they are both great alternatives...
I have seen a lot of great reviews of both online.
I just do not get the V&H FP3 bashing...seems very selective...
Isn't Fullsac a canned tune as well?
The difference between the two is the Fullsac tune is done w/the TTS which offers more parameters to tune it by where as (from what I have read) the FP3 doesn't offer as many parameters to tune with. BTW I have neither so I have no dog in the fight as to what is better... just stating facts... that's all.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Fullsac IS a canned tune as well. The FP3 also has more adjustable parameters that I would ever use.
And you can change them yourself on your iphone...at any time and anywhere.
To go back to the Tune versus a good can map for a specific setup, yes the tune is better (that is assuming the tech knows what he is doing...and that is a huge assumption) but I bet most people won't feel the difference. Just do not use your average Harley dealer for tuning.
Either one is way better than stock anyway, as long as you remove the cat and get some good slipons...
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yes the tune is better (that is assuming the tech knows what he is doing...and that is a huge assumption)
Not an assumption if you do some homework and take it to a reputable tuner. Sometimes that requires traveling a great distance. I pulled mine 240 miles to get it tuned. I've never had a better running bike worth every penny. I agree though, if you are gonna take it to the average dyno operator you might as well just flash the ecm with a canned map.
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This argument is like many others; some people only care about "good enough", and others want to talk about "the best". IF the folks selling these basic devices actually have a good canned map that matches a persons bike exactly, then many and even most people will probably be satisfied with that. On the other hand, those who want the best for their time and money will be better served with a full tune performed by a real full time tuner on their particular bike. It's not necessarily bashing the products like the Fuel Pak 3, it's just letting the person asking the question know there is a better alternative if he is interested. This forum is about sharing information and knowledge, and that's what I see here. It's not necessary to get upset when someone who knows a lot more about the subject explains that the product you chose may do the job but not as well as a real professional custom tune. As long as you're happy with your choice and results, why would you care? But that explanation may in fact be important to someone else who hasn't made a decision yet.
Jerry
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I'm in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and I don't really know of any sought after tuners in the area. Everyone uses dealers, which is why I was thinking that if I use Vance and Hines products with the FP3, it would be as good as Fullsac.
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I'm in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and I don't really know of any sought after tuners in the area. Everyone uses dealers, which is why I was thinking that if I use Vance and Hines products with the FP3, it would be as good as Fullsac.
That's a huge demographic I find it hard to believe there are no competent tuners there?
But really the issue here is that nobody trusts any Harley tuners. Pretty sad.
Jerry you make some good points. Some ppl are ok with dropping 36k on a bike and then cutting corners afterwards and others want the best available. To each his own. Do what ever makes YOU happy :2vrolijk_21:
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It"s a personal choice. I had a RK 15 years ago with PCIII that was perfessionally tuned that ran exceptional, great mileage, smooth power over the full range, just a great running bike. Then I bought the new SEEG and dealer said let me put in HD download, if you don't like it I won't charge you, It was not a good as the RK but I paid around a hundred vs $550 on RK for tuner and dyno time, so saved $450 and it was OK, not great, OK. Bought the SERG and went Fullsac inserts with TTS and Fullsac supplied map, much like the old RK it was just a fun/smooth bike that I enjoyed riding and only cost around $450 with cables. Good deal, then I paid a famous Florida tuner (name withheld) $400 to totally screw it up to the point I hated to ride it, after his third attempt I reloaded the Fullsac map and left it alone till I sold it 5 years later. On the new CVORK I installed the Fullsac baffles and have a FP3. That is it, no more dyno tunes for me, no more letting somebody beat the crap out of my bike for a couple HP, just not worth it. I am old enough peak power is not as important as a smooth rideable torque curve and with some of the technology in the current tuners it is just not worth the money (to me) for a (word overused) "tune". IMHO. The new bikes actually run very good, I heard alot of people @ Bikeweek in the tent after test rides that were amazed how good they run vs a few years ago and I agree.
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I'm in the northwest suburbs of Chicago and I don't really know of any sought after tuners in the area. Everyone uses dealers, which is why I was thinking that if I use Vance and Hines products with the FP3, it would be as good as Fullsac.
If your willing to make a trip to Mattoon IL ,, Your bike will be tuned by one of the Best Tuners in the USA.. I'll PM the information
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IF some one in TX has this new unit bring it buy the shop after you get it dialed in or better yet lets tune it on the drum while we read afr . I will show afr traces and you will see what really is tuned and what is not.
No charge at all . And with the dyno we can steady state the tune to be sure that the sensors are hitting each cell in the tune.
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IF some one in TX has this new unit bring it buy the shop after you get it dialed in or better yet lets tune it on the drum while we read afr . I will show afr traces and you will see what really is tuned and what is not.
No charge at all . And with the dyno we can steady state the tune to be sure that the sensors are hitting each cell in the tune.
That's awesome. Let's see the real world data.
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GMR. (Steve) is a well respected member and vendor on this site. I for one value his opinion and info he provides us. I only wish I was closer to him as I would love to have him dial in my motor. :drink:
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You can mark me down as a happy customer, owner, and user of the FP3. I was able to change the head pipe to the Fuel Moto ceramic coated, the muffler cores to the Fulsack 2.0, and install the FP3 in my garage. Not only did I do it myself but I saved time, money, and was back on the bike the same day. It may not be the most HP and TQ out there but I have no complaints. It's easy to tell it has more power and the sound is much better while being a little louder. I can't answer any questions about spects because it wasn't Dynoed. However, it does have a function where I can see the "approximent" power and torque.
If you are think about it, then its really about preference.
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Funny, friend has the FP3 and it burbles and pops on decel @ around 1800 rpm. Folks say "they all do that" and it can't be tuned out. One of my bikes acted the same way right off the showroom floor. So I took it to a famous Florida tuner 2 weeks ago, no decel issues, smooth all the way from idle to WFO. Worth the $400.00 and the trip.
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Funny, friend has the FP3 and it burbles and pops on decel @ around 1800 rpm. Folks say "they all do that" and it can't be tuned out. One of my bikes acted the same way right off the showroom floor. So I took it to a famous Florida tuner 2 weeks ago, no decel issues, smooth all the way from idle to WFO. Worth the $400.00 and the trip.
They all do that? LOL funny mine doesn't do that but I took it to a guy that was trained by Mike Roland :nixweiss:
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"I took it to a guy that was trained by Mike Roland "
Doug Lofgren tuned a bike for me back in 2005, when him and Roland were connected. Best tune I had.
Doc in Fl. just did a good job on my 2015 RG. Brian at Valley also did a bike for me in 2009. :2vrolijk_21:
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"I took it to a guy that was trained by Mike Roland "
Doug Lofgren tuned a bike for me back in 2005, when him and Roland were connected. Best tune I had.
Doc in Fl. just did a good job on my 2015 RG. Brian at Valley also did a bike for me in 2009. :2vrolijk_21:
Doug is who I was referring to 8)
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I ended up calling Fuelmoto, and I went with the power vision. This will be the third time....I'll stick with what I know works.
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I ended up calling Fuelmoto, and I went with the power vision. This will be the third time....I'll stick with what I know works.
I run a power vision from Fuel Moto. I ended up getting a tune anyway but it's a great tool with lots of options.
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IF some one in TX has this new unit bring it buy the shop after you get it dialed in or better yet lets tune it on the drum while we read afr . I will show afr traces and you will see what really is tuned and what is not.
No charge at all . And with the dyno we can steady state the tune to be sure that the sensors are hitting each cell in the tune.
I would gladly take you up on that offer if your shop wasn't in Tx! I've been dying to see some dyno results of the FP3, but no such luck yet and I've been looking all winter. I just recently downloaded the update to mine and it has a bunch of different parameters to play with besides VE tables now ... I can't remember all of them and it's stuff only a professional tuner would play with. All I know is between the pipe and canned tune right out of the box, mine runs way better than before so I'm happy with it. I really love how much better throttle response is when I changed it to 1:1. We always want more so I tried a few generic "auto-tune" sessions and really didn't notice too much of an improvement, if anything at all over the caned tune. If I only had the time and funds a trip to Tx. would be in order for me. C'mon guys! Nobody in the whole state of Tx. has a Pro Pipe and a FP3 to take GMR up on his offer??
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I run a power vision from Fuel Moto. I ended up getting a tune anyway but it's a great tool with lots of options.
So you originally had a Fuelmoto tune and you retuned it.....or did you auto tune and make changes? There are not many shops that tune with the Power Vision near me....if any. I used their maps on my 2012 FLHX and my 2014 FLHX....they ran great.
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So you originally had a Fuelmoto tune and you retuned it.....or did you auto tune and make changes? There are not many shops that tune with the Power Vision near me....if any. I used their maps on my 2012 FLHX and my 2014 FLHX....they ran great.
Before my heads were done and cams I had a canned Fuel Moto map and ran auto tune. After the work I decided to have it tuned by one of the best.
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Before my heads were done and cams I had a canned Fuel Moto map and ran auto tune. After the work I decided to have it tuned by one of the best.
How was your map before the major work?
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How was your map before the major work?
It ran good. No major issues but there was some deceleration popping but now that I've seen how a properly tuned bike runs I couldn't go back. I'm not talking about some dyno operator at a Harley shop but one of the real tuners out there. They are a bit harder to track down unless you are fortunate enough to have one nearby. I pulled my bike 240 miles.
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"I pulled my bike 240 miles."
Wish I had it that good, when Doug tuned my bike, pulled it 750 miles......one way. Back in '05 good tuners were few and far between.
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"I pulled my bike 240 miles."
Wish I had it that good, when Doug tuned my bike, pulled it 750 miles......one way. Back in '05 good tuners were few and far between.
Still sucked. I have 5 Harley dealers withing 90 mins of me and none of them would suffice. So I pulled my bike 240 miles getting 10 mpg with my old chevy pickup and then pulled the empty trailer home so about 500 round trip and then went back up the next week and did it all over again. You already know how much Doug's time is worth on top of that lol.
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TEXAS :D Messing with J only
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TEXAS :D Messing with J only
Good morning Steve lol
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Still sucked. I have 5 Harley dealers withing 90 mins of me and none of them would suffice. So I pulled my bike 240 miles getting 10 mpg with my old chevy pickup and then pulled the empty trailer home so about 500 round trip and then went back up the next week and did it all over again. You already know how much Doug's time is worth on top of that lol.
I understand completely, when I hauled my bike to Doug, the dealer was 5 miles from house, they still don't have a clue. This trip to Doc's, a couple weeks ago....dealer is 12 miles from my house. My other bike (CVO King) is at that dealer, for the 3rd time while the tuner learns, I guess. 3 strikes and he's out. If it doesn't run good then I'm asking for a refund on the initial tune, and will haul it to a known good tuner. Shame because this dealer has a state of the art dyno cell.
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I understand completely, when I hauled my bike to Doug, the dealer was 5 miles from house, they still don't have a clue. This trip to Doc's, a couple weeks ago....dealer is 12 miles from my house. My other bike (CVO King) is at that dealer, for the 3rd time while the tuner learns, I guess. 3 strikes and he's out. If it doesn't run good then I'm asking for a refund on the initial tune, and will haul it to a known good tuner. Shame because this dealer has a state of the art dyno cell.
Yes sir. Dyno operators suck haha.