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Author Topic: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control  (Read 2865 times)

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GregKhougaz

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2019, 04:21:13 PM »

I am surprised that Harley is taking the lead on this (or anything!).
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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2019, 05:32:58 PM »

I am not surprised at all.  They really cleaned house in their Engineering and Technology groups over the past 18 months.   Friends who work there said that Bill Davidson personally has driven this with support of the Board.

Let’s hope this starts driving changes.  I heard that if the candidates are not STEM certified and degreed they are not hired. 

We’ll see  :nixweiss:
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dayne66

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2019, 07:55:25 PM »

Coming from Harley,  that is so well known for using it's customers as guinea pigs.....do you really want the lives of your group to rely on this?
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ultrarider123

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2019, 08:09:42 PM »

Coming from Harley,  that is so well known for using it's customers as guinea pigs.....do you really want the lives of your group to rely on this?
Well said.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2019, 09:04:08 PM »

Coming from Harley,  that is so well known for using it's customers as guinea pigs.....do you really want the lives of your group to rely on this?


While the point isn't invalid so far as Harley's reputation with systems and technology deployment is concerned none of us would (hopefully?) fully rely on tech for the road management of our bikes.  The tech can be aid but should never be manager.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2019, 11:20:46 PM »

Based on the little information, I’m not a fan of this. I know, tall words coming from a guy who rides an Ultra with all the bells and whistles, but I feel this may have the opposite effect than what is intended.

Cars today are very advanced with cameras, speed sensors, proximity sensors, lane positioning sensors, heads up displays, and wipers that sense rain. However I’m not so sure all that helps. All that stuff takes the driving out of driving. Drivers get a false sense of security and may allow their attention to drop. Why should they pay attention, some machine is doing it for them.

Now add that to motorcycle riding. Suddenly the rider has technology feeding him data and that may get him to drop his guard and then comes trouble.

But I could be wrong.
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iski

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2019, 08:22:21 AM »

Not so deep thoughts...reading this thread makes me wonder:

Is it more fun to complain about Harley not taking the lead and innovating or complaining about it when they do?   :nixweiss:

Adaptive cruise control is a good idea, will be interested to see how it works. Am not expecting perfection, all systems (even plain old cruise control) need rider management & to think otherwise is a very bad idea, but this feature could help on those longer rides when not in front.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2019, 09:08:03 AM »

Not so deep thoughts...reading this thread makes me wonder:

Is it more fun to complain about Harley not taking the lead and innovating or complaining about it when they do?   :nixweiss:

Adaptive cruise control is a good idea, will be interested to see how it works. Am not expecting perfection, all systems (even plain old cruise control) need rider management & to think otherwise is a very bad idea, but this feature could help on those longer rides when not in front.

Good point.  I do worry though that all the automation the auto industry is adding will make things worse, as people who already don't pay enough attention to what's going on around them will assume they don't have to pay any attention at all.  One case in point, Tesla's Auto Pilot feature that has figured prominently in some major crashes and loss of life when the rocket scientists driving them thought they could take a nap at 80 mph or spend time working on their laptops or reading an e-book. 

Consider if you will that cars and trucks with all the latest adaptive cruise control, automatic braking, lane keeping, etc., all rely on camera's, radar, or sonar sensors that can be defeated by a simple rain or snow storm as well as plain old road grime.  If every driver was a highly trained pilot who always followed checklists and scanned instruments for signs of trouble, not a big problem because the vehicles are supposed to alert the driver when a system goes down due to sensor issues.  I think we all know the vast majority of the people behind the wheel on the roads these days are the polar opposite of that highly trained pilot.  And on another note, even in vehicles with attentive drivers, we have had numerous reports of system failures such as the Nissan's that apply the emergency braking feature for no reason.  Slamming on the brakes in traffic for no reason is a good way to have another vehicle introduce itself to your vehicle's posterior.  Hopefully it won't be a tractor-trailer.

Jerry
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ultrarider123

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2019, 09:18:49 AM »

I'm with Mark and Jerry on this.

I'm also glad the MoCo is looking at things to bring them closer to the other brands in technology.

Iski, the past shows we are the unpaid test pilots for Harley and that I don't appreciate. Until that changes, we can and should gripe. The numerous "updates" to just the infotainment system alone is justification.

If auto or cycle manufactures choose to put all this stuff on their product, more power to them as long as each comes with an off button so that those of us that don't want nanny interfering can shut it off... ;D
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 01:44:38 PM by Haird »
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iski

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2019, 10:23:02 AM »

Good point.  I do worry though that all the automation the auto industry is adding will make things worse, as people who already don't pay enough attention to what's going on around them will assume they don't have to pay any attention at all.  One case in point, Tesla's Auto Pilot feature that has figured prominently in some major crashes and loss of life when the rocket scientists driving them thought they could take a nap at 80 mph or spend time working on their laptops or reading an e-book. 

Consider if you will that cars and trucks with all the latest adaptive cruise control, automatic braking, lane keeping, etc., all rely on camera's, radar, or sonar sensors that can be defeated by a simple rain or snow storm as well as plain old road grime.  If every driver was a highly trained pilot who always followed checklists and scanned instruments for signs of trouble, not a big problem because the vehicles are supposed to alert the driver when a system goes down due to sensor issues.  I think we all know the vast majority of the people behind the wheel on the roads these days are the polar opposite of that highly trained pilot.  And on another note, even in vehicles with attentive drivers, we have had numerous reports of system failures such as the Nissan's that apply the emergency braking feature for no reason.  Slamming on the brakes in traffic for no reason is a good way to have another vehicle introduce itself to your vehicle's posterior.  Hopefully it won't be a tractor-trailer.

Jerry
All good points.

The "cars that drive themselves" problem is due in large part to all the other vehicles on the roadways that do not drive themselves.  If all vehicles were on some sort of "auto pilot" then the chances of mishaps could be lessened, as long as they communicated with each other.  All systems are subject to failure, and the problem with "all auto pilot" is a system failure would likely be massive, with massive destruction as a result.  I prefer the idea that drivers remain alert & responsive and can use tools to aid safety by choice.  Adaptive cruise is a tool, but has the same problems as regular cruise plus several.  Even in a car I tend to use cruise control only as needed.  Road conditions, traffic conditions, and my alertness are just a few of the variables.   On a bike will use cruise but all these situations are amplified, because on 2 wheels a little cat nap can easily be the last thing you do.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:41:57 AM by iski »
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iski

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2019, 10:39:33 AM »

I'm with Mark and Jerry on this. I'm also glad the MoCo is looking at things to bring them closer to the other brands in technology.

Iski, the past shows we are the unpaid test pilots for Harley and that I don't appreciate. Until that changes, we can and should gripe. The numerous "updates" to just the infotainment system alone is justification.

If auto or cycle manufactures choose to put all this stuff on their product, more power to them as long as each comes with an off button so that those of us that don't want nanny interfering can shut it off... ;D

Haird I agree that being the live road guinea pig for HD has caused me grief.  I also realize that "early adapters" on other non HD vehicles are also guinea pigs. I can recall more than a few non HD vehicles that were not reliable because "new" systems were not perfected. That also caused me grief but part of the reason I tend to buy new vehicles is I like some of the gee whiz golly gosh newfangled gizmos.  HD on some things - notably that infernal Infotaint screen - has vexed me sorely.  And HD's lack of a solution to that has made my very sore vex even sorer. 

On the bike I use cruise less than in a car.  On adaptive cruise I suspect it would be the same.  If I'm riding with a group & we are peeling off a few hundred miles on a super slab & the traffic & weather allow, I can see adaptive cruise as a benefit. A subjective benefit because it is one less decision to make - speed needed to allow safe distance between bikes - away from the rider. That alone can cause various forms of distracted riding. Will wait & see how that HD systems works vs how they say it is supposed to work. 

On vehicles with driver assist I tend to turn that stuff off.  I dislike some car voice or ding dong bell telling me some stupid crap about some damn deal when most of the time all I want to do is drive and get there. The %$^#* GPS is annoying enough by itself without any help from Ms. Parking Assist and Object Avoidance Computer Voice and/or Charming Bell Tone..

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dayne66

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2019, 11:07:26 AM »

Adaptive cruise on my Jeep didn't 'see' a little Ninja at the selected distance....had to manually brake before chancing running into the back of it.
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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2019, 11:18:03 AM »

The "cars that drive themselves" problem is due in large part to all the other vehicles on the roadways that do not drive themselves.  If all vehicles were on some sort of "auto pilot" then the chances of mishaps could be lessened, as long as they communicated with each other. 

And hopefully I will be old, dead and in the ground before that happens. When I want to drive, I want to drive. Not let some "system" do all that for me. Same with riding a motorcycle. And let's not forget that the current iteration of avionics is not without issues. The Boeing 737 Max, is a perfect example. The pilots don't really fly the plane with "stick and rudder", they respond to a "computer system" that feeds them data for which they make the necessary adjustments. And when the computer system reads incorrect information about air speed and forces the plane into a dive,....well we know what happens.

All I'm saying is that I want to ride the motorcycle, I don't want the motorcycle to ride me. I want to vary the speed in traffic using throttle and rear brake. On my own I want to scan five car lengths ahead to read traffic. I want to lane split using my skills of judging time and distance to either work my way through cars, or hold back till an opening is created.

Some advancements I like, such as fuel injection, electronic ignition, and ABS. Some I don't like, such as linked braking. When I want to apply rear brake, I only want rear brake. I don't want some "computerized braking system" automatically applying the front brake too. When I want front brake, I'll use front brake.

I don't want to surrender control of the bike. I prefer to use my own judgement. I'm strange that way.

If Harley really wanted to make an improvement, they should put in a motorized windshield on the Ultras and RoadGlides. Just like BMW, Yamaha, and the new GoldWings.

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iski

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Re: Harley-Davidson Patents Group Riding-Friendly Adaptive Cruise Control
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2019, 11:58:12 AM »

And hopefully I will be old, dead and in the ground before that happens. When I want to drive, I want to drive. Not let some "system" do all that for me. Same with riding a motorcycle. And let's not forget that the current iteration of avionics is not without issues. The Boeing 737 Max, is a perfect example. The pilots don't really fly the plane with "stick and rudder", they respond to a "computer system" that feeds them data for which they make the necessary adjustments. And when the computer system reads incorrect information about air speed and forces the plane into a dive,....well we know what happens.

All I'm saying is that I want to ride the motorcycle, I don't want the motorcycle to ride me. I want to vary the speed in traffic using throttle and rear brake. On my own I want to scan five car lengths ahead to read traffic. I want to lane split using my skills of judging time and distance to either work my way through cars, or hold back till an opening is created.

Some advancements I like, such as fuel injection, electronic ignition, and ABS. Some I don't like, such as linked braking. When I want to apply rear brake, I only want rear brake. I don't want some "computerized braking system" automatically applying the front brake too. When I want front brake, I'll use front brake.

I don't want to surrender control of the bike. I prefer to use my own judgement. I'm strange that way.

If Harley really wanted to make an improvement, they should put in a motorized windshield on the Ultras and RoadGlides. Just like BMW, Yamaha, and the new GoldWings.

First cars I drove did not have power steering, power brakes, automatic transmissions, cruise control, ABS, A/C, intermittent wipers, power windows, power locks  - the list goes on & it's a long one. All that stuff is mostly taken for granted now.  New Tech takes time to morph into expectations.  I first rode carbureted bikes with no tach & no speedo & drum brakes, now am on a 2017 CVO Limited.  Takes time to change.  Change makes folks uncomfortable usually from my experience. 

I prefer driving/riding myself to having a computer do it for me.  By the same token if I could park a vehicle in a designated que on a road (with a track?) then take a nap & wake up reliably & not dead in Phoenix there are times that would appeal to me more than the long trek to get there "manually." Automatically arriving at one's destination with one's vehicle would be the advantage over flying or taking public transportation, as I see it.  At this point am reluctant to use some of the driver assist functions because I either prefer to drive myself or I simply do not trust it enough to mess with it.  On driver assist stuff like back up cameras especially when hooking up a trailer, I am happy to use them because it works & it makes life a lot easier.

Agree on the HD electric windshield deal.  HD is way behind the curve on this one. No pun intended.
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