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[bigchuck]

As I'm in the process of replacing the Boom system with a far superior aftermarket system I started thinking what do they do right? What does not need to be redone or upgraded?


Seat? No
Shocks? No
Stereo? No
Windshield? Maybe


The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is fit and finish. While you may hear of paint bubbling, it seams to be very rare. You may not like all the colors but when it comes to paint quality and painted part fitting right (lines) they do a very good job.


Can you think of anything else?

[SIKBIRD]

Marketing (or at least they used to)

Your post got me to thinking about my 1987 Honda Rebel 450 got it when I was 13 years old and rode the hell out of it for 6 years...not a single problem.  I sold it to my cousin in 1993 and he is still riding it to this day (his primary source of transportation) Now it is a total POS because he’s not much on taking care of things but the fact that a 32 year old air cooled engine with no telling how many hundreds of thousand miles is still running tells me that it can be done but idk if H-D has any interest in building a bike that would last that long.

[jrf55]

I agree paint and finish are very good quality A+ on that . but for the prices of these bikes having to change suspension , audio, engine failures, and the most dissappointing is that the company doesnt really address any problems and confirm theres an issue will have identified it and here is our repair or recall to Fix the issue!!!! Instead they hide problems and inturn make the owners of the bikes lose confidence in the bikes leading to poor future sales.Leadership at Harley needs to understand service to owners leads to sales .

 

[grc]

Fit and finish along with styling was a Harley strong point with Boomers.  It is less of a strong point with many younger folks.  Don't believe me, look at the rolling junk many of them use for transportation these days.  I comment to my wife when we are out driving around about the massive number of wrecked and unrepaired vehicles on our roads these days, mostly driven by folks much younger than us.  Why fix it if you plan to continue driving with your head up your butt and will likely crash again?  And as someone already mentioned, it's not about the economy.  These are the same people who can find a way to come up with $1k or more for the latest iPhone every year or two.  But they can't find $600 to have the front bumper facia replaced from the last time they rear-ended someone with their car while texting.

There was a time when Harley had the best chrome plating in the business.  Now they've started fixing their more recent lousy chrome problems by eliminating more and more chrome and going with blacked out everything.  Cheaper for them, but somehow the prices they charge still go up and up.

The only thing IMHO they've done right over the past thirty years was how they marketed the lifestyle and bikes to draw in all the celebrities and lawyers and other one week a year road warriors to their brand.  They couldn't and still can't design and engineer a reliable vehicle, but they sure could create a desire in people's minds to be seen riding a Harley anyway.

Jerry

[Ironhorse]

I work with a lot of young people, and am even a parent to two.

A broad brush generalization of an entire generation with overall disdain is unfair. Just because they find importance on different things than baby boomers does not make them less valuable to society.

Yes they buy $1000 phones, and so do I. They know that that phone is the lifeline to them to finding work, staying employed, paying bills, making medical appointments, keeping in touch with their parents, keeping in touch with their friends and families, navigating roads, navigating paths, buying airline tickets, buying movie tickets, buying groceries, banking, managing money, researching records, as well as playing movies and music. If you ever watched StarTrek you know that a smart phone is a communicator, tri-corder and ships computer all rolled into one. 

Sure, some of them may drive "buckets" and less than beautiful cars, but that's because they do not look at cars as a status symbols of success. They see it as transportation from point A to point B.  Yes, they do not embrace the riding lifestyle of us Boomers, but that does not mean they do not embrace any lifestyle. Many are truly concerned with environment, and education. Just because they do not ride a motorcycle through Yellowstone does not mean they do not appreciate Yellowstone. They are among those hiking ,biking, canoeing, and kayaking.

Yes, young people today will never know how to drive a stick, field dress a deer, milk a cow, change oil, or rotate tires. But they will know how to fix a PC, code a program, work a CAD program, design software, speak multiple languages and more. 

Placing blame on young people for not riding, and assigning partial blame on them for the decline of HD is as unfair as blaming the boomers for the death of the horse and buggy. Why spend $35K on a motorcycle when that same $35K will buy a used Honda Accord, a mountain bike, a kayak, a surfboard, and pay for Spanish lessons, so you can surf or Kayak central and south America?

[mark]

They did a great job marketing, name recognition and branding (everything Harley - from dog bowls, playing cards, tool boxes, jewelry...you get the idea).  I would also give them high marks for paint, fit and finish.  I'd also give them top marks for the quality of dealership facilities.

[J.D.]

For me personally Harley has pretty much lost all it's appeal.  I still like the P&A catalog, but that's about it.

HD was cool when the shops were little and sort of unrefined.  Bikes were relatively inexpensive and HD didn't hide the fact that they were imperfect.  Everyone knew the product.  They knew their market and there was mutual respect between customer and dealer.  Service guys were tenured experts and parts guys committed part numbers to memory.  Dealers found a way to take care of reasonable issues.

Once HD made the decision to build all these enormous showrooms and appeal to the masses complete with merchandising on everything, that's when the appeal started dying for me personally.  Hanging out and talking shop was replaced with car salesman types who often know little to nothing about the details of the products.  First response to issues is often to justify voiding the powertrain warranty.

[Ironhorse]

HD was cool when the shops were little and sort of unrefined.  Bikes were relatively inexpensive and HD didn't hide the fact that they were imperfect.  Everyone knew the product.  They knew their market and there was mutual respect between customer and dealer.  Service guys were tenured experts and parts guys committed part numbers to memory.  Dealers found a way to take care of reasonable issues. Hanging out and talking shop was replaced with car salesman types who often know little to nothing about the details of the products.  First response to issues is often to justify voiding the powertrain warranty.

But that’s the American Way. HD is mirroring the Capitalistic Profit Driven Society we have become. Close down the small mom and pop stores and replace them with Walmart. Hire people and pay them minimum wage. Then limit their hours to less than 30 a week so they don’t get benefits. If they want benefits they can join the socialist military. If they don’t like working at the HD dealership they can go work at Taco Bell. That’s how you end up with inexperienced people at the HD dealership.

Last week I was at San Jose HD, recently taken over by new ownership.  I asked the parts guy if he was a fresh face, or hold over. He said he was new. His previous experience was coaching the national badminton team, fixing bicycles, and stocking shelves. Out in the lot a sales person asked me what I rode. I told him I had a 2006 CVO Ultra. He said “Oh, you like the 110”. I didn’t even reply. He probably was a used car salesman and now works 20 hrs at minimum wage.

[FLSTFI Dave]

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is fit and finish. While you may hear of paint bubbling, it seams to be very rare. You may not like all the colors but when it comes to paint quality and painted part fitting right (lines) they do a very good job.


Can you think of anything else?

I honestly think the fit, finish and quality has gone down hill.  Paint is not as good a quality has it use to be, chips easier, shows wear faster.  Finish on black fork legs is not as durable as it was a couple years ago.  Seat material showing sever wear in 13K miles.  Last two had over 24K with no visible wear.

The 19 had to have the lower fang aligned, not on bike correctly from factory.  18 the tank in seat gap could never be made correct, always as 1/4 or more.  17 saddle bag logs did not work at delivery.  So I do not believe they pay attention to quality.

[ultrarider123]

But that’s the American Way. HD is mirroring the Capitalistic Profit Driven Society we have become. Close down the small mom and pop stores and replace them with Walmart. Hire people and pay them minimum wage. Then limit their hours to less than 30 a week so they don’t get benefits. If they want benefits they can join the socialist military. If they don’t like working at the HD dealership they can go work at Taco Bell. That’s how you end up with inexperienced people at the HD dealership.

Last week I was at San Jose HD, recently taken over by new ownership.  I asked the parts guy if he was a fresh face, or hold over. He said he was new. His previous experience was coaching the national badminton team, fixing bicycles, and stocking shelves. Out in the lot a sales person asked me what I rode. I told him I had a 2006 CVO Ultra. He said “Oh, you like the 110”. I didn’t even reply. He probably was a used car salesman and now works 20 hrs at minimum wage.

That sounds like a "broad brush generalization" Mark of which I just read you weren't a fan...

There are good dealers out there just like there are bad ones...same goes for generations, football fans, motorcyclist, preachers, teachers, snowboarders, etc...

What does Harley do right?  That is a great question.  They've been able to maintain a company through thick, thin, bull and bear continuously since 1903.  That's through two world wars, numerous financial issues and all the complaining that loyal owners throw at them including some of my rants and cursing over the years.  I've never been stranded on any trips but I've had my share of issues but still I bought them.

I'll put as number one "do right" as paint and fit.  Their in-house painting facilities are second to none.  I just wish they took pride enough in their CVO line to do that paint in house, too.  They make their own tanks and fenders...really cool process.  Harley Davidson is one of the goals for lots of folks when they feel they've made it...that's something they and all of us should be proud of.

[Ironhorse]

That sounds like a "broad brush generalization" Mark of which I just read you weren't a fan...

There are good dealers out there just like there are bad ones...same goes for generations, football fans, motorcyclist, preachers, teachers, snowboarders, etc...

What does Harley do right?  That is a great question.  They've been able to maintain a company through thick, thin, bull and bear continuously since 1903.  That's through two world wars, numerous financial issues and all the complaining that loyal owners throw at them including some of my rants and cursing over the years.  I've never been stranded on any trips but I've had my share of issues but still I bought them.

I'll put as number one "do right" as paint and fit.  Their in-house painting facilities are second to none.  I just wish they took pride enough in their CVO line to do that paint in house, too.  They make their own tanks and fenders...really cool process.  Harley Davidson is one of the goals for lots of folks when they feel they've made it...that's something they and all of us should be proud of.

Fit and finish,....I disagree. All the painted parts on my '06 CVO Ultra had paint that went bad and was replaced under warranty. Some of the bikes with clear painted over polished bare metal had rust forming on them. One member here had a bike where the wheel was out of round. Not the tire,  but the rim. HD would not warranty that.

I agree with HD being able to survive, but that comes at a price too. Overseas production, foreign made components, clothing made in Asia. In the 70s when the Japanese introduced the fast and dependable 750s and 1000s HD, managed to get tariffs on larger bikes. That's why the 650s and 900s became popular as they skated in just under the engine size restrictions.

One thing I think HD does well is design and appearance. To the untrained eye, an Electraglide from the 70s looks like one from today. But underneath they are as different as can be. Working within those parameters takes some skill.

[chaos901]

What does H-D do right? 

It sells motorcycles.  Even with sales being down it is still the number one seller of heavyweight motorcycles.   

[bigchuck]

What does H-D do right? 

It sells motorcycles.  Even with sales being down it is still the number one seller of heavyweight motorcycles.   

For how much longer?

[Ironhorse]

Actually, one thing HD does right is clothing.

Yes we all know it’s made by a 9yearold in Asia, and is expensive, but some of it is decent. The Pendleton, polos, Henley’s, and hoodies are pretty good. I’m not a fan of skulls, or wolf howling at the moon graphics though.

My wife got me a jacket she found on Craigslist. Is has armor and panels that zip off for maximum ventilation in summer. I think it’s well designed and is a nice addition to my 2 Bates leather jackets. I like some of the older FXRG clothing. I have an HD rain suit that’s over 10 years old and is holding up well.

Yes HD rebrands boots and helmets, socks and gloves, but some of their clothing is well thought out.

[bbrown]

the Museum in Milwaukee

[iski]

I really like the new angled valve stems.

[MIKEYTEE]

I've never been stranded on any trips but I've had my share of issues but still I bought them.

Haird, you don't know what you have missed! The joy of being broke down on the side of the road waiting on a tow truck for 3 hours, then getting to the local HD shop where they charge you $300+ dollars to get you back on the road then have the exact same thing happen again in less than 25 miles. I did manage to get it home with the help of one of our members that lived in the area. My local shop thinks they fixed the problem but I haven't had the good weather or time to find out. Hopefully before Maggie Valley, not that I bring my bike to MV. 

Mike

 

[Twolanerider]

I've never been stranded on any trips but I've had my share of issues but still I bought them.

Haird, you don't know what you have missed! The joy of being broke down on the side of the road waiting on a tow truck for 3 hours, then getting to the local HD shop where they charge you $300+ dollars to get you back on the road then have the exact same thing happen again in less than 25 miles. I did manage to get it home with the help of one of our members that lived in the area. My local shop thinks they fixed the problem but I haven't had the good weather or time in two freaking years to find out. Hopefully before Maggie Valley, not that I bring my bike to MV. 

Mike

 

Wow.

[victor]

Kickstands, gotta love that locking mechanism.

[ultrafxr]

Kickstands, gotta love that locking mechanism.

I agree. Last month I was on a ferry in Nova Scotia and they parked a rider on a big BMW very, very close to me. Rider had handlebars turned full right. Yikes not good for max lean on side stand. And she didn’t know much about how to strap it down. I decided to approach her with suggestions as I was very concerned about the stability of her bike and it falling into mine. Fortunately she was agreeable and we got it secured. Never understood why no other manufacturers use a lock on the side stand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rayson56]

I think they did a great job with the new Rushmore "one handed" controls and latches. I kinda take them for granted now but I think they are a huge improvement.

[Goldcup]

Guess I'm the oddball, I’ve owned 3 HD’s with this being my first CVO. Paint rivals any automotive manufacturer out there. I've been around a lot of very high end cars that do not have nearly the level of quality of HD paint. I've only put about 70k on the HD’s I've owned,but the first two never had any issues. I have about 1500 miles on my CVO SG, absolutely love the bike, Black Forrest with no chrome, I do not like chrome(my opinion only) and I will agree their chrome does not look like it used too. Looks like a Chinese product. I have torn all my previous HD’s down and painted/ powder coated all chrome. The new trend makes it easier for me!

[ACfixer]

As I'm in the process of replacing the Boom system with a far superior aftermarket system

Not to derail here Chuck, but can you fill me in on what you are replacing the Boom system with?

Thanks!

[bakon]

Rushmore latches
Oil filters
Spark plugs
Pistons and jugs
Trannys
Hand controls
Pegs and floor boards
Brakes
Stock Dunlop
Drive belts
Most all bolts
Kickstand
Wheels
Most wiring
Fuel pumps and system
Seat material and heated elements, especially hammock seats

Sure each of these have problems at times, but usually all are reliable and last years/miles of use.

[iski]

I really like the new angled valve stems.

The valve stem caps are very reliable, too.

[Twolanerider]

The valve stem caps are very reliable, too.

Most dealerships totally fail at Saturday donuts anymore though.

[iski]

Most dealerships totally fail at Saturday donuts anymore though.

True.  2 of the Harleys I bought were due to a great donut selection in the customer lounge.  In truth 1 of them was also due to a very tasty fresh baked chocolate chip cookie.

[scottt]

True.  2 of the Harleys I bought were due to a great donut selection in the customer lounge.  In truth 1 of them was also due to a very tasty fresh baked chocolate chip cookie.

Got ya beat; long, long ago I had a dealership owner celebrate my bike purchase with a cold beer before hitting the road. Had bar stools at the parts counter and ash trays. You could sit and talk bikes with a coffee and cigarette. Things have really changed.

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[iski]

Got ya beat; long, long ago I had a dealership owner celebrate my bike purchase with a cold beer before hitting the road. Had bar stools at the parts counter and ash trays. You could sit and talk bikes with a coffee and cigarette. Things have really changed.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

I liked the old shops. As you said, bar stools & ash trays at the counter both MC & cars.  Shoot the chit with the parts guys & mechanics.  Before computers, when cars & bikes were tuned manually not by electronic gizmos.  A lost era, before the federal government regulated a lot of the fun out of it.

[dayne66]

I have a Harley leather/magnetic money clip that has performed flawlessly for 20 years......I am not sure if I'm hooped on the warranty since it has had Can-bucks in it.

[Rooster]

My HD wallet wore out but not the opener that came with it

[iski]

That reminds me, I have a HD drink bar mat that was given to me by a friend that has performed flawlessly for years & years.



Has had everything from beer, tequila, bourbon, wine, and even ... water spilled on it so am guessing the warranty has been voided since none of these were HD label.

[Ironhorse]

One thing HD does is market things in limited runs. They are always changing their clothing line up as well as accessories. I learned long ago, if you see something at a dealership you like, buy it right then as it won't be available in 6 months.

Everything from jackets, gloves, vests, caps, sweatshirts, boots, jewelry, helmets and more are always changing. This years gloves will be different from last years gloves. It may be a slight or small change, but it will be different. Then there are the "collections". The "Anniversary" collection, the "Willie G" Collection, and on and on. That's a pretty smart thing to do.

[Rooster]

At least not as bad as Wally World. They seem to change every week. Wife bought some shelf liner and needed more a week later. To bad, cant get the same.

[dayne66]

Another item that has worked flawlessly for almost 8 years.......our Pup's  Harley Davidson collar. I think it was made in the Honduras......that's better than China at least!

[Rooster]

Kickstands, gotta love that locking mechanism.

Kickstands yes for the most part however there were some spring failures. Good thing when it happened to one of our members at a gas station he had very long legs that helped him from going over.

[Twolanerider]

Kickstands yes for the most part however there were some spring failures. Good thing when it happened to one of our members at a gas station he had very long legs that helped him from going over.

FXR kickstand rocked .