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Author Topic: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD  (Read 3678 times)

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CVOStreetglide

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HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« on: December 26, 2017, 06:38:10 PM »

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Daniellee

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 07:37:05 PM »

Looks like your ready for a new CVO . I just got mine a few months ago so I'm good.
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muddypaws

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 07:53:41 AM »

Harley waited a bit to long to get more riders..
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Bill

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 08:21:20 AM »

Knoxville West is just about ready for opening their school.  Statistics show on average for every ten folks that take the Harley training, two purchase bikes from the teaching dealership.  So if you go with training 50 a month, that's potentially an increase of 10 more bike sales.  That's a dang good increase plus it helps bring more traffic into the brick and mortar store (parts, accessories, clothing, helmets, etc).  Makes very good financial sense....IF the stats hold true.
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 08:51:31 AM »

Haird does your dealership's riding school train 50 people a month?  Based on what I've seen at several large dealerships in California, that number seems high.  In San Diego those classes (every other weekend.....so twice a month) are only 8-10 people a class.  And that translate only to the largest dealerships/riding schools across the nation and for much of the country, only in the summer months.  California and Florida are probably the only two states that are doing riding schools this time of year.

I remember when Willie G intoduced the V rod at the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center in Rapid City (during the Sturgis Rally) years ago.  It was supposed to be geared towards the younger market.  Those came and went, without achieving their intended goal.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 09:44:30 AM »

I would say Smokey Mountain trains 70 to 80 a month.  From March through October the classes are sold out about a month or two ahead of time.  They run a class almost every week end, skipping Memorial day, and Laborday.  They can handle 24 per class.

Im sure it helps there bike sales.  My wife bought a new 2007 sportster the week after she graduated class.  Then an 09 Heritage, then an 11 street glide, a 13 Street glide, a 15 Road glide and now a 17 road glide, actually her second one as she totaled the first 17 road glide.
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ultrarider123

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 10:36:58 AM »

JC, I'd say it will be a slow start but knowing what Dave stated above being true, it's very doable for the 50/month in our part of the world.  I pushed one of my work associates to SMHD for rider training in 2016.  There was a waiting list for an opening.  SMHD has one heck of a dealership for the training.  Knoxville West (now Bootlegger) has a much larger lot being prepared for the course but their dealership isn't quite as large or well set up as Scott's place in Maryville (Smokey Mountain HD) but yep, 50 a month is a good start.
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Ironhorse

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 11:23:24 AM »

Harley has to find new riders, and those classes are a great tie in. But for myself, I am not in the market for another Harley, gonna keep what I got. When I do buy another bike, most likely that new GoldWing, I'll keep the Harley. And, like most of us all my work is done by an independent, Metal Dragon. Jim does much better work than any dealership, is reasonable and trustworthy. Most of the dealerships I've been to have a few good mechanics, but the rest are "fresh kids" who replace parts instead of diagnosing and repairing.
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J.D.

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 12:49:23 PM »

I'm with ya.  With the ongoing reliability issues, and regular tales of friction with dealerships and MoCo reps, I really think I have purchased my last Harley.  There's really no marketing or sales pitch that is going to sway that decision.

If/when reliability and customer service both become world class, who knows.
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scottt

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 06:37:02 PM »

I'm with ya.  With the ongoing reliability issues, and regular tales of friction with dealerships and MoCo reps, I really think I have purchased my last Harley.  There's really no marketing or sales pitch that is going to sway that decision.

If/when reliability and customer service both become world class, who knows.
Rode Harleys for 28 years, 12 new HD's. Generally loved the bikes, good times and riding brothers. As time moved on Harley became more corporate. Dealers built huge fancy facilities, some have said that they looked more like Macy's than a motorcycle dealer. One thing for sure, it became about one thing..how much $$$ they could extract from you.

I guess it was to be expected. They had more customers than bikes. Dealers had new overhead to cover along with much higher lifestyles they had acquired. I could see it as plain as day.

Harley Davidson has become a huge mass marketing machine. Selling a dream as much as motorcycles. Unfortunately, in my opinion, they haven't stayed competitive. Haven't focused enough on quality, and delivering a superior riding experience.

For me that is what it's all about, that feeling you get when a fine piece of machinery  running below you delivers on your every request.

My latest bike is not a Harley, but Yes, it has personality. It's the new 2018 BMW K1600b. With 160hp and 129lb of torque right off the showroom floor. Suspension that has to be ridden to appreciate. Electronically controlled. At the flip of a switch it adjust from 1up to 2up or with luggage. Traction control along with linked ABS brakes. With the push of a button I have reverse. A power windshield too. Constant front and rear tire pressure readout. Oil level readout, a keyless central locking system, heated seats and handgrip. The sound system option comes standard with satellite radio that includes 1 year service. If you add the GPS system as I did you get a Garmin unit that can be used in your car as well. Comes with lifetime free map updates.

Basically a good looking Bagger that's only 741lbs wet. Every time I ride I'm grinning ear to ear. It's like a Corvette Z06 on 2 wheels.

Just under 25k, nothing in the Harley lineup came close. I might add that my local BMW dealership treats me really well. It's more like the old time motorcycle dealerships I really enjoyed.

Apologize for the long post. If you see a black BMW bagger flying down the road, might be me



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Twolanerider

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 06:41:35 PM »

They ought to offer free rider training courses for newbies getting their first motorcycle certification then combine that a grand off a new bike purchased within six months of completing the course.  HD needs new blood.  Eventually the blood on the floor will be their own without it.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 08:38:55 AM »

They ought to offer free rider training courses for newbies getting their first motorcycle certification then combine that a grand off a new bike purchased within six months of completing the course.  HD needs new blood.  Eventually the blood on the floor will be their own without it.
Smokey Mountain Harley applies the cost of the course to a new bike if you choose to purchase one from them.  I know they did, and pretty sure they still do.

Makes sense to do it this way, as it helps you get the sale, vice taking the course for free and buying else where.
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iski

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 09:00:30 AM »

They ought to offer free rider training courses for newbies getting their first motorcycle certification then combine that a grand off a new bike purchased within six months of completing the course.  HD needs new blood.  Eventually the blood on the floor will be their own without it.

X2.  Plus more affordable, smaller bikes for new riders.
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Twolanerider

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 10:32:22 AM »

X2.  Plus more affordable, smaller bikes for new riders.


But no training wheels.
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Twolanerider

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 10:34:45 AM »

Smokey Mountain Harley applies the cost of the course to a new bike if you choose to purchase one from them.  I know they did, and pretty sure they still do.

Makes sense to do it this way, as it helps you get the sale, vice taking the course for free and buying else where.


Can see it either way.  The MoCo needs to significantly expand the pool of young/new riders.  MoCo might consider co-sponsoring rider training with dealerships to absorb some of the cost.  Train at a Harley shop likely more likely to later buy at a Harley shop.  Six months or two years; you want the association of riding and that shop in their head.  It's an investment or its advertising.
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iski

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2017, 10:53:22 AM »


But no training wheels.

Ok. We get to point & say Lookit! when they fall over.   Maybe a Vroooom! sound generator for the new Energizer Bunny bikes?

While we are having fun spending the MoCo & Dealer money - another good idea would be a "Loyalty Discount".  Repeat buyers get $x,xxx off their next bike purchase.  Could stop some of the bleed off to Indian & other brands. 

Seriously, MoCo needs a better handle on costs.  Their assembly process could be streamlined, a good guess there is too much cost in overhead (administration) as well as manufacturing.  Finding that waste, eliminating it, and producing a reliable product at a more affordable price point goes further than anything toward long term viability.   
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J.D.

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »

Loyalty discount is a good idea.  I know alot of car brands offer this.
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 12:02:30 PM »

I think the MoCo needs to read this thread!
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 12:32:48 PM »

Not sure if I missed it in the article, but I think the price for the course is high. When I went to a class for my liscense 14 years ago the class was $250 or more at the local dealers. I ended up taking a course through the state that cost $50. I think it's good that dealers offer the class but if people are complaining about the cost of a bike why would they pay $250 plus to take a course? Not sure if any other state has a course but I know Wisconsin does.
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kojak

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2017, 02:00:48 PM »

Its not a Harley issue, its affecting all motorcycle manufacturers. I did my part over the past 40+ years by bringing in 12 people into riding and teaching them how to ride, lol!
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 02:11:53 PM »

I did my part over the past 40+ years by bringing in 12 people into riding and teaching them how to ride.

That's all we can do, nurture their love of it, and they will come along. We need to make it a pyramid scheme. If everybody brought in two new riders, (don't care what kind of bike), the numbers will grow and we all benefit.
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 02:37:55 PM »

The trick would be to get to the kids at a very young age with dirt bikes and mini-bikes as well as creating good family memories on trips riding on the back of street bikes to foster a love of riding so it will stick with them.
They will need to love to ride and experience the sights,sounds and smells of riding to enjoy it for a lifetime to keep the sport alive.
I know members of a local riding organization who get their kids involved as much as possible on rides (not to the extent of forcing them to participate though). But one thing they encourage is to get all their kids when they get to the age of learner's permits, have their kids take a motorcycle learn to ride course so they will learn the dangers and vulnerability of bikes on the road and even if they never ride a bike they will be more aware of bikes and hopefully become better car drivers.
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2017, 02:54:11 PM »

I'd still suggest the MoCo incentivize dealership activity within their communities.  Make it free to high school students of age for a driving license or driving permit if they have a 3.0 GPA or better.  Discounted for 2.0 and 2.5.  Free for the kids of all first responders, veterans and active duty personnel.  Basically make it free or cheap for many.  Get the families in the door bringing in the kids.  Regularly turn over the training bikes at cost to keep the training fleet in better shape and have cheap first bikes to offer the new riders.  Set up trail courses with HD branding on every tree and curve and hole.  Go...... well.... it's asking HD to spend money now to make riders later.  So never mind.  HD still expects consumers to pay for the privilege of walking in the door.
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scottt

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 05:04:20 PM »

Considering that I moved to BMW after 28 years on Harleys, I would recommend Harley does the following:

- Make reverse a option or standard feature on touring models. As riders age, it gets tough backing up a 900lb bike with passenger and gear. Once you've had reverse you'll never go back.

- Make quality job one. Drivetrain components should be engineered and built to the highest industry standard. Stop using Chinese crankshaft, use quality American made components whenever possible. Never outsource unless your doing it for a superior product vs cost savings.

-introduce completely new models vs changing one major component at a time. Better to redesign a complete motorcycle from scratch. As it stands today a 2018 touring bike could be obsolete in a year or two when the next frame is introduced. A new frame should have been introduced in 2017 with the M8 motor. The change should have featured the new M8, a new frame and suspension. A vastly improved total package.

-A power windshield on the fairing style touring bike.

-Stop charging your customers for features other manufacturers include. Example would be xm satellite radio. Should be standard if bike has a stereo. Include 1 year trial service vs 3 mos. GPS should have free upgrades like my BMW.

These are just some suggestions that would in my opinion really help. Doing business like it was 1995 will not work. Too much competition.  Most of today's consumers buy what's best for them, not just to be loyal.

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J.D.

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 05:19:45 PM »

For starters how bout:

1. When they inevitably f-up a component design admit it is THEIR fault and not the customer's, and then fix it right (preferably the first design change)
2. Stop introducing ridiculous caveats to void the factory warranty
3. Treat people buying $20k+ toys with some level of respect and not as idiots
4. Stop responding to any question or warranty claim as "that's normal, they all do/sound like that"
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2017, 07:41:11 PM »

I'd still suggest the MoCo incentivize dealership activity within their communities.  Make it free to high school students of age for a driving license or driving permit if they have a 3.0 GPA or better.  Discounted for 2.0 and 2.5.  Free for the kids of all first responders, veterans and active duty personnel.  Basically make it free or cheap for many.  Get the families in the door bringing in the kids.  Regularly turn over the training bikes at cost to keep the training fleet in better shape and have cheap first bikes to offer the new riders.  Set up trail courses with HD branding on every tree and curve and hole.  Go...... well.... it's asking HD to spend money now to make riders later.  So never mind.  HD still expects consumers to pay for the privilege of walking in the door.

You know, if Harley sold some off-road bikes they could have summer bike camps and get kids learning to play in the dirt. Get dad to buy that first 50cc to 125cc scooter and get them active. Unfortunately, Harley doesn't participate in that market. Maybe, Yamaha, Kawasaki or Suzuki will do it and HD can get them when they turn 40. Oh, that won't work. They'll already be spoiled by high performance, reliable equipment at a fair price.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 07:44:34 PM by DesertHOG »
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Robmay

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2018, 10:15:37 AM »

I don’t get the whole Harley needs to tap into the younger generation thing. A lot of folks, probably most, don’t start getting into Harley’s until they are older. For me it was after the kids were pretty much grown and we had a little more “disposable” income. The younger folks will do the same when they hit that era in their lives.

I bought my first new bike in 1991. A Virago 750 I think it was. Mama was not happy because the kids were all small and she was concerned they could lose both parents at any given time due to a bike accident. Kept it about a year and sold it.

In 2003 we bought our first Harley. It was an 03 Electra glide standard but it was used. Less than 3k miles on it and had Vance and Hines mufflers. We had been riding a new Suzuki Intruder 1500 for about a year. I still remember that first test ride! I blurted out “ Oh my god!” and my wife leaned up immediately and shouted “ what’s wrong??!” My replie was “it's so smooth!!”.

I remember how solid it felt compared to the Intruder. The absence of the metric buzz from my hands, butt and feet. It’s nostalgic for me.

I’ve tried other bikes along the way. A new Goldwing in 2006 and a BMW 1600 GTL in 2015. Neither gave me (especially my wife) the feeling we get when riding our Harley’s. Lucky for me the deal was we had to keep our Harley when we tried out one of these other bikes.  :)

I also don’t get why everyone buys a Harley and then wants it to be something it is not. If they did all the things everyone wanted, it wouldn’t be a Harley. And then we’d bitch about that (notice I said WE). Plain and simple.

I get the frustration as I’ve been there many times over the course of the years with many of my bikes. But...at the end of the day I wouldn’t hesitate to ride it across the country. Could it break down? Sure. But there’s more than likely a dealership pretty close by AND they either have the parts or can get them next day from another dealership close by as well. The guy that bought my BMW waited 9 weeks on lifters. Are there some horror stories out there about bad dealerships? Absolutely. But at the end of the day I appreciate and enjoy the look, sound and feel of my Harley’s.

I keep saying I won’t buy another new one and then I do. And so far I’m still glad I continue to do so. I say I won’t keep chasing the Tq and hp rabbit down the hole but I do. And I’m usually rewarded each time. I know you all feel mostly the same way or we wouldn’t be here, together on this site. That’s another thing. Because of the type of bike I ride I have met and become very close with a lot of you here. Even if I don’t see you a lot, you’re always considered family.

Rob  :drink:
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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2018, 12:03:47 PM »

Robmay I understand what you are saying and in many cases it is true about the progression of motorcycle ownership eventually leading to a Harley.
I look at the issue as sales are down due the aging of the Baby Boomers and the newer generations as not only being smaller but they have less disposable income to spend on high dollar toys and it's mods. So they do look for cheap ways to have fun and to some extent want a turnkey bike that they don't have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get it to run right.
The reason for H-D to get involved in the youth is to help create the warm fuzzy feelings about the brand such as rides with their parents or the exhilaration of learning to ride and how it builds brand loyalty attachments. Otherwise if kids start with Honda or Yamaha etc. all they will learn about Harley is they are noisy and leak and built on old technology. Think of it as in the car/truck markets and how some people will only drive Chevy or Ford owners only drive Fords and those Prius owners who will only drive Toyota or another type of import because they are convinced American cars are junk etc......
I guess we all can ask ourselves "why do you ride?" and if you asked 1,000 riders you could get 1,000 different answers. Such as riding for the love of riding in general and they can see things they like in all brands of bikes and wish they could build an "ultimate dream bike" with those other features or they are happy with what they have now.
 
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Robmay

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2018, 12:31:20 PM »

When my son was home on leave this past November he took the riders course and got his MC endorsement. Once that was done we did some training here at the house for a couple of days going over controls, gearing etc on my 2017 CVO street glide.

Then we went for a ride. He on the SG me on my RG. He absolutely loved it and kept saying I ruined him lol.  Once he got to his new base in Hawaii he started looking for a bike to buy. He narrowed it down to a Victory Vegas that was for sale for around $4k. He went and looked at it, took it for a short ride and decided against it.

Then he rented a SG and rode it for 2 days. He couldn’t afford the a SG at the dealership but rode a couple of other models and finally decided on a Nighttrain for around $10k.

So for him at 27, the Harley was worth paying the extra money based on the look, feel and experience. He just purchased it yesterday.  :drink:



Rob
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iski

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2018, 12:34:31 PM »

When my son was home on leave this past November he took the riders course and got his MC endorsement. Once that was done we did some training here at the house for a couple of days going over controls, gearing etc on my 2017 CVO street glide.

Then we went for a ride. He on the SG me on my RG. He absolutely loved it and kept saying I ruined him lol.  Once he got to his new base in Hawaii he started looking for a bike to buy. He narrowed it down to a Victory Vegas that was for sale for around $4k. He went and looked at it, took it for a short ride and decided against it.

Then he rented a SG and rode it for 2 days. He couldn’t afford the a SG at the dealership but rode a couple of other models and finally decided on a Nighttrain for around $10k.

So for him at 27, the Harley was worth paying the extra money based on the look, feel and experience. He just purchased it yesterday.  :drink:



Rob

 :2vrolijk_21:  Plus, he gets to ride in Hawaii!
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mark

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Re: HARLEY SALES CONTINUE THE TREND DOWNWARD
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2018, 03:22:34 PM »

Anecdotal stories aside, HD DOES need to develope a broader customer base outside of Baby Boomers.  The MoCo's marketing gurus knew this years ago, as well as other business analysts.  You can't rely on a strategy of hoping once people get into their 50s they'll suddenly become enamored with your product.  You also can't let your product become synonymous with an old generation.  Cadillac is a great example.  Decades ago, Cadillac ownership was a sign of success, but now is viewed as a sign of elderliness.  Ever wonder why BMW and Mercedes started building some smaller, less expensive cars?
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