Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[clubbie]

Smitty I am having this kit installed Friday. Hope to pick up the bike on Monday or Tuesday. My bike is a stock FXDSE stock with a tune. I will ask the dealer to do a before run.

The bike tuned runs pretty well (with stock 255's) but falls of the power by 4.5k RPM. Off the mark and up to 4th gear I can hold my own with mates modified bikes.

My build will be 2 into 1 V&H pipes, Heavy Breather A/C plus the kit parts (tuner, cam, pistons, gaskets etc). Dealer says torque will increase at slightly higher rpm. Power will increase from where the stock cam falls away. They have done a few an do not expect a fall in numbers across the rev range just an extension up top to 6k RPM.

Just one thing don't get a hung up on the "number" for the cam. Intake duration is only one part of the cam timing events. LSA, ramp rates, lift etc etc etc all have to be taken into account. BTW 255's have a 211/235 int/exh and the 259E has 246/250. Don't know how MOCO do their cam part numbers but Woods and Andrews are a cinch to decipher.

Clubbie

[Smitty2u]

Smitty I am having this kit installed Friday. Hope to pick up the bike on Monday or Tuesday. My bike is a stock FXDSE stock with a tune. I will ask the dealer to do a before run.

The bike tuned runs pretty well (with stock 255's) but falls of the power by 4.5k RPM. Off the mark and up to 4th gear I can hold my own with mates modified bikes.

My build will be 2 into 1 V&H pipes, Heavy Breather A/C plus the kit parts (tuner, cam, pistons, gaskets etc). Dealer says torque will increase at slightly higher rpm. Power will increase from where the stock cam falls away. They have done a few an do not expect a fall in numbers across the rev range just an extension up top to 6k RPM.

Just one thing don't get a hung up on the "number" for the cam. Intake duration is only one part of the cam timing events. LSA, ramp rates, lift etc etc etc all have to be taken into account. BTW 255's have a 211/235 int/exh and the 259E has 246/250. Don't know how MOCO do their cam part numbers but Woods and Andrews are a cinch to decipher.

Clubbie

I'll be looking forward to hearing your take on the upgrade and hope to see they Dyna printout.

[clubbie]

Well not going so good. Seems previous owner had a "repair" to the jugs to fix the known oil weep issue. Jugs will be machined or replaced. So I get the Dyna back in a few days or few weeks depending on if machining the jugs can fix the score marks. Fcuk.

[Smitty2u]

Well not going so good. Seems previous owner had a "repair" to the jugs to fix the known oil weep issue. Jugs will be machined or replaced. So I get the Dyna back in a few days or few weeks depending on if machining the jugs can fix the score marks. Fcuk.

Nothing is ever easy...  Hopefully it will turn out, not too expensively.  Let me know how it turns out.

[clubbie]

Smitty - Merry xmas.

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Clubbie/?action=view&current=bba9b50f.mp4

Have to run it in a bit. Just got the bike back.
First impressions with a canned tune. Some pinging just of idle. Has not been on the dyno (yet).
Still pulls nicely from 2k rpm. Hauls up top.

[Smitty2u]

Smitty - Merry xmas.

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/Clubbie/?action=view&current=bba9b50f.mp4

Have to run it in a bit. Just got the bike back.
First impressions with a canned tune. Some pinging just of idle. Has not been on the dyno (yet).
Still pulls nicely from 2k rpm. Hauls up top.

Sweet scooter....  Let us know how it does after the dyno.

[timo482]

with the gearing on these bikes you wont get to top rpm at top speed unless you are in 4th, or possibly on a light bike 5th - in 6th it wont happen

if you set the engine up for the highest hp it will be like riding kaw 900 - you have to slip the clutch and work with it to get moving - then it will hit 70 in second

there is a chart in the se catalog that shows the relative movement of the torque curve based on when the intake valve closes, you can move it back and forth - and you can raise its ht but you really cant have 120 torque at 2000 and 120 hp at 6000 rpm - its just not going to happen.

"most" power upgrades are going to, by definition, move the torque curve to the right and raise the hp numbers at the far right edge.

bigger displacement moves the entire curve up, higher compression moves the curve up, a 255 cam will move the curve up on a bike that has a stock cam.

engineering is a compromise - money, time, skill

to

[Smitty2u]

with the gearing on these bikes you wont get to top rpm at top speed unless you are in 4th, or possibly on a light bike 5th - in 6th it wont happen

if you set the engine up for the highest hp it will be like riding kaw 900 - you have to slip the clutch and work with it to get moving - then it will hit 70 in second

there is a chart in the se catalog that shows the relative movement of the torque curve based on when the intake valve closes, you can move it back and forth - and you can raise its ht but you really cant have 120 torque at 2000 and 120 hp at 6000 rpm - its just not going to happen.

"most" power upgrades are going to, by definition, move the torque curve to the right and raise the hp numbers at the far right edge.

bigger displacement moves the entire curve up, higher compression moves the curve up, a 255 cam will move the curve up on a bike that has a stock cam.

engineering is a compromise - money, time, skill

to

That's good info.  It is after under the racing section of SE.  I'm considering having my HD dealer work with T-Man on a different approach.  I though about posing that train of thought here, but was afraid I would not get fresh looks since this has all been about the SE Pro upgrade.  I am still interested in see Cubbie's numbers after he has the Dyno work done.

[clubbie]

Timo is right and I agree with him mostly.

The reality is you lose early torque by putting a 259E cam in (which is quite mild for a Dyna 110") but bumping up the comp ratio from 9.3 to 10.5 gets most of that back.

I love the theories that you must lose torque to gain torque further up the rev range. That theory assumes just a cam change. Throw in ported heads, compression increase, AC, TB, tune and pipes and the torque curve moves north as well as east west.

So in summary this is a strong midrange cam and kit (nice lope) not a late closing top end screamer. I am happy. Still pulls 6th from under 2k rpm without shaking the motor like the stocker did.

Winter time will see ported TB and heads, but seeing as summer just started I will run it in, tune it and ride it for summer.

[Smitty2u]

Timo is right and I agree with him mostly.

The reality is you lose early torque by putting a 259E cam in (which is quite mild for a Dyna 110") but bumping up the comp ratio from 9.3 to 10.5 gets most of that back.

I love the theories that you must lose torque to gain torque further up the rev range. That theory assumes just a cam change. Throw in ported heads, compression increase, AC, TB, tune and pipes and the torque curve moves north as well as east west.

So in summary this is a strong midrange cam and kit (nice lope) not a late closing top end screamer. I am happy. Still pulls 6th from under 2k rpm without shaking the motor like the stocker did.

Winter time will see ported TB and heads, but seeing as summer just started I will run it in, tune it and ride it for summer.

Took me a moment to realize you weren't in the states.  Enjoy the summer riding and let us know how things turn out after the you do the TB & heads.

[clubbie]

Happy New Year Smitty. Just having a hot spell here - have been jet skiing. Has been 41C or by my calcs about 106F.

Lovelly for splashing around and drinking beer. What have you decided on your build?

[Dead_Reckoning]

I'm pretty new to this, so please excuse my ignorance....  I've read that the range for a cam considered to be engineered for torque over HP is 236 to 260.  How would using a 236 degree cam opposed to a 259 degree cam affect top speed, rpm at a curising speeds, and fuel economy? 

This may be something woth reading? Lord knows there are as many opinions as grains of salt in the oceans.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/selectcam.htm

As a general rule, cams with 220-235 degrees of duration tend to produce good low end torque. Cams with 235-250 degrees of duration tend to work best in the mid-ranges and cams over 260 degrees work best for top end power. Camshaft overlap duration less than 30 degrees tends to produce good low end power. Lobe Separation Angles (LSA) of 100-103 degrees tend to produce power at the low end.

Cams with valve lifts .500 inches and under, with a duration under 250 degrees are generally considered bolt-in. Cams over .500 inches lift and 250 degrees duration require increased compression and head work to work best.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/camdb.htm

TWIN-CAM 96/103/110 For 2007 and Later Bikes
The gearing of the 2007 and later bikes really prefer cams with very low power bands. Cams that optimize power under 4500 RPMs tend to be much better suited for these late model bikes unless you change the primary or final drive gearing. We highly recommend giving up maximum HP in favor of a lower, broad power band under 4500 RPMs for these bikes.

If you are interested in understanding CAMs a bit more, this may help with terminology.
Camshafts and Valve Train Basics
http://www.streetracersonline.com/articles/camshafts/

[Smitty2u]

This may be something woth reading? Lord knows there are as many opinions as grains of salt in the oceans.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/selectcam.htm
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/camdb.htm
If you are interested in understanding CAMs a bit more, this may help with terminology.
Camshafts and Valve Train Basics
http://www.streetracersonline.com/articles/camshafts/

That's great information!

[clubbie]

Well Smitty I nearly finshed running in the bike. Fresh fuel (100RON) rather than the usual 95 has cured the small amount of pinging. Unfortunately after a really nice days hard riding 250+km with about a dozen mates and 10km from home and 4 km from the dealer the compoensator shat itself during a 4th gear squirt in the tunnels. Just checking out the sound - you know.
There was no noise or warning it just started to slip then no drive. At the dealers with the primary cover removed the compensator bolt had backed out and the compensator was fornicated. New upgraded comp ordered. Sh!t happens spoilt a good ride.

[HD Street Performance]

Let's look at some data.
What many don't consider the inherent capabilities of the CVO 110 head VS the OEM casting. We go from 96" to 110" ~15% increase. The OEM head has an average flow from .1-.6" in .1 increments of ~173 CFM intake. The CVO head with it's 2.08" valve VS the 1.805" valve (OEM) flows ~210 CFM average. These values are for stock heads not ported. The displacement went up 15% and the available average airflow went up 21%.
What this says is the CVO head can deliver more with less cam. Less duration will equate to the same cylinder fill because of the added capacity of the port, the ability to move more air in less time.

That said most of the riders I talk to are not real happy with changing out of 6th and dropping into 5th a lot at cruising speeds. They want more roll on power and are not real comfortable loosing the low end punch the stock SE255 offers. I have had success with the 110 by using short cams and a small increase in compression. Nothing gets left on the table. Torque and power rise right off idle and they are still pulling on top above 4k-5.5K.
The end user must get a high quality custom tune and use a good pipe to accomplish the goal however. The 110 by virtue of the better airflow capability will also fall harder and worse when a cam with added overlap (especially too large of a cam) is used and the pipe and tune are not up to par.
When somebody calls me and wants a 120+hp 110 I change gears altogether and then there is a completely different approach.