Topic: Replacing Crankshaft Bushing in cam plate?? (Read 14706 times)

skippy49 · « **on:** August 28, 2012, 08:54:42 PM »

I've got a crank that has slipped, I'm assuming as the runout has increased greatly from original (from .0015 originally at gear drive install, to .006 now after about 40,000). I'm trying to check if the crankshaft bushing has worn out of round any but I don't have anything to measure with. Fitting the cam plate on the shaft without anything else holding it, it seems that there is a little too much play in the fit of the crankshaft to the bushing.
Is that a piece that can be pressed out and a new one pressed in? Or does it need to be honed after pressing it in, to finished size? I didn't know if they need to be honed to a certain size or not. Trying to decide if I can do it or if I'll have to send it out.
TIA,
Steve

grc · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:27:15 PM »

Quote from: skippy49 on August 28, 2012, 08:54:42 PM

I've got a crank that has slipped, I'm assuming as the runout has increased greatly from original (from .0015 originally at gear drive install, to .006 now after about 40,000). I'm trying to check if the crankshaft bushing has worn out of round any but I don't have anything to measure with. Fitting the cam plate on the shaft without anything else holding it, it seems that there is a little too much play in the fit of the crankshaft to the bushing.
Is that a piece that can be pressed out and a new one pressed in? Or does it need to be honed after pressing it in, to finished size? I didn't know if they need to be honed to a certain size or not. Trying to decide if I can do it or if I'll have to send it out.
TIA,
Steve

Never did it, but the bushing can be purchased for about $10 (p/n 25344-99). It's a press fit, then you will need the special tool to ream it to size (tool #42316). I'm not sure what the tool would cost, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say if you don't already have one and can't borrow one, it will probably be cheaper to just buy a new cam plate (p/n 25355-06, $78.00). You may not be able to find that particular plate anymore, since it was replaced by p/n 25355-06A a couple years ago. The new plates don't have a pinion shaft bushing at all, just the aluminum of the plate, but the price is the same.

Jerry

Oh, I'm assuming you're talking about the 2009 bike. If not, the cam plate part number I posted isn't for the early Twin Cams with the spring loaded tensioners.

skippy49 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:44:35 PM »

It's on an 03 SE Road King. I'll look up the part and see how much a plate is, if any are still available.
Thanks

grc · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2012, 10:02:13 PM »

That makes a big difference. I don't see a listing for the old style plate by itself, only as a kit that includes the cam bearings, tensioners, and various other bits and pieces for around $290 (p/n 25267-99B).

Jerry

skippy49 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2012, 10:07:06 PM »

Quote from: grc on August 28, 2012, 10:02:13 PM

That makes a big difference. I don't see a listing for the old style plate by itself, only as a kit that includes the cam bearings, tensioners, and various other bits and pieces for around $290 (p/n 25267-99B).

Jerry

I just found that out too. I'll probably get this one replaced and reamed. Thanks.

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2012, 10:20:22 PM »

A well equipped machine shop with a Sunnen MB series hone and the right mandrel can hone it. I'd fix it. I have not done one but if it were in my shop I would have a piloted reamer cut and clamp it to the mill table to ream it straight and true. It is easy to make a push and pull in tool. I have a C-frame hydraulic press that helps with those sorts of jobs

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:05:21 AM »

we`ve done a fair amount of them,not a big deal.PM me if you want us to replace the bushing

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:12:40 AM »

Been there, done that, many times.
Piece-o-cake here as well.
Scott

cvobiker · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2012, 08:15:41 AM »

I love it,,, The big three jump right in there...

... No that's funny chit right there... LMAO.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2012, 02:14:01 PM »

You've got another more thorough, albeit considerably more expensive, option to consider. Especially if you're going to the expense of splitting the cases following a bad crank anyway.

The most important weakness on the older style cam plates was the cam tensioners. HD offers part number 25284-11. This is a new cam plate (complete) and a new oil pump. The pump provides better pressure and scavenging than the original and the plate uses the newer style cam tensioners. From one of the 20% discounting sellers the kit is $420-ish. But it's a worthwhile consideration.

skippy49 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:33:04 PM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on August 29, 2012, 02:14:01 PM

You've got another more thorough, albeit considerably more expensive, option to consider. Especially if you're going to the expense of splitting the cases following a bad crank anyway.

The most important weakness on the older style cam plates was the cam tensioners. HD offers part number 25284-11. This is a new cam plate (complete) and a new oil pump. The pump provides better pressure and scavenging than the original and the plate uses the newer style cam tensioners. From one of the 20% discounting sellers the kit is $420-ish. But it's a worthwhile consideration.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've got gear drive cams in it that I want to use again. Do they make a similar plate for gear drive?

For the others, thanks for the suggestions. I'm sending my crank off and I'll see if they can also do the cam plate bushing for me. I'm just waiting on the cylinders to get bored so I can send the pistons, etc., with the crank for balancing!!

Twolanerider · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:29:29 AM »

Quote from: skippy49 on August 29, 2012, 09:33:04 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've got gear drive cams in it that I want to use again. Do they make a similar plate for gear drive?

With the tensioners no longer being an issue in your gear drive engine it's one less thing to worry about. Though the excessive run out isn't good for the gear lash. So hopefully you didn't collect any new problems in the process. If your existing plate is good with just a new bushing save the coin and go that way. Since your suspecting run out issues are you replacing the oil pump?

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2012, 07:57:34 AM »

true,make sure the pump is carefully inspected,

skippy49 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:28:46 AM »

I haven't really inspected the pump or plate where the pump mounts. Looked it over quickly as I didn't have much time. Checked it again this morning (the plate) and it is slightly grooved where the pump runs, a little more than it was when I put the cams in about 40,000 miles ago. I'll check the pump too, but the plate might be grooved more than it should be. I can easily catch a fingernail on the gooves whereas before I could just barely catch a fingernail on them.
If I replace plate and pump, is there anyone that sells a reasonable combination package? It has a feuling pump in it so I'd probably want to replace with something comparable.
TIA,
Steve

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2012, 12:31:13 PM »

Send the pump back to fueling, in the past they have taken care of there customers with reconditioning of the pump.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:04:32 PM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 30, 2012, 12:31:13 PM

Send the pump back to fueling, in the past they have taken care of there customers with reconditioning of the pump.

DITTO!!!!! While you are at it I would buy a fueling plate as well. I have it in a couple of my bikes and the combo has been very good to me!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:15:06 PM »

FWIW, we can count on 1 hand, the number of fancy-a$$ed anodized billet cam plates we've installed here, in the past 12 years of working on/with the T/C engine.
Most all were at the client request I might add.
Scott

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:00:09 PM »

same here,no need for a billit plate,nothing wrong with a stocker

grc · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:17:21 PM »

Quote from: Hillsidecycle.com on August 30, 2012, 02:15:06 PM

FWIW, we can count on 1 hand, the number of fancy-a$$ed anodized billet cam plates we've installed here, in the past 12 years of working on/with the T/C engine.
Most all were at the client request I might add.
Scott

Quote from: prodrag1320 on August 30, 2012, 03:00:09 PM

same here,no need for a billit plate,nothing wrong with a stocker

Try not to say this stuff too loudly guys, you're liable to cut into some serious profit margins at Fueling and Harley along with a bunch of other vendors. Billet is a magic word in the world of Harley. I'm surprised some shuck and jive type hasn't tried to sell billet seats to the Harley crowd.

Btw, the late model stock oil pump is also just fine for a normal bike. It also has the advantage of being more tolerant of pinion shaft runout than the "ultra close tolerance" stuff from folks like Fueling. On the other hand, after spending only about eight times as much as a stocker for the Fueling pump, it can be rebuilt while the Harley stuff is disposable. Guess it depends on how many decades a guy plans to run that engine.

Jerry

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2012, 04:08:38 PM »

i think the early or late pumps are fine for most milder builds,the extra scavaging of some of the aftermarket pumps is a +,but wont be noticed on the majority of builds

skippy49 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »

Quote from: prodrag1320 on August 30, 2012, 04:08:38 PM

i think the early or late pumps are fine for most milder builds,the extra scavaging of some of the aftermarket pumps is a +,but wont be noticed on the majority of builds

I guess if my Feuling pump needed rebuilt, I could just put the original back in. It only had 20,000 on it when I took it out.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2012, 07:47:53 PM »

as long as theres not any scoaring,put the stock pump back in it

skippy49 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:09:49 PM »

Quote from: prodrag1320 on August 30, 2012, 07:47:53 PM

as long as theres not any scoaring,put the stock pump back in it

That's the problem. There is a little scoring. When I put this pump in about 40,000 miles ago, there was a little scoring but it was hard to catch a fingernail on it. Now it will easily catch a fingernail, so I'm wondering if the cam plate is junk anyway. I was thinking they can't be refaced. Is that correct?

skippy49 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2012, 09:44:07 AM »

Anyone know a source where you can buy just the cam support plate and not the kit with all the extras on it? Or will I have to just buy the one with everything on it?

Twolanerider · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:06:39 AM »

Quote from: skippy49 on August 31, 2012, 09:44:07 AM

Anyone know a source where you can buy just the cam support plate and not the kit with all the extras on it? Or will I have to just buy the one with everything on it?

The aftermarket offers a few different billet options. The original cam plate is a pretty good part though. If you can change the bushing in it cheaply just go for it.

You need a parts manual too. Many of your questions answered right there. The original cam plate is available from Mother Harley. Not unexpectedly it's surprisingly expensive though. Almost $300. So close to $250 even from one of the 20% off discounting stores. By the time you tack the price of a new oil pump on to that you're not that far off from something like a Feuling plate and pump.

skippy49 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:14:36 AM »

I think the plate is going to have to be replaced due to scoring so the busing won't matter. I was trying to locate just the plate and not the complete plate, tensioners, etc., that Harley offers. Got the parts book and manuals but it doesn't list a plate separately, only the combination, which would still be cheaper than a billet one though.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #26 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:20:17 AM »

Quote from: skippy49 on August 31, 2012, 11:14:36 AM

I think the plate is going to have to be replaced due to scoring so the busing won't matter. I was trying to locate just the plate and not the complete plate, tensioners, etc., that Harley offers. Got the parts book and manuals but it doesn't list a plate separately, only the combination, which would still be cheaper than a billet one though.

You're right that the replacement OE plate comes as an assembly with new tensioners and bearings. You'd want the bearings anyway. It is still a bit cheaper than an aftermarket billet plate. So sell the new tensioners on eBay for whatever little bit they'll bring and keep working. If you know (and it seems you do) that this is the cheapest effective option it's time to buy parts and move on.

skippy49 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:52:26 AM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on August 31, 2012, 11:20:17 AM

You're right that the replacement OE plate comes as an assembly with new tensioners and bearings. You'd want the bearings anyway. It is still a bit cheaper than an aftermarket billet plate. So sell the new tensioners on eBay for whatever little bit they'll bring and keep working. If you know (and it seems you do) that this is the cheapest effective option it's time to buy parts and move on.

I think that's what I'll do as I forgot about needing the bearings too. I've got a fairly long list of parts I need so I'll just add to it.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #28 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:59:09 PM »

Quote from: cvobiker on August 29, 2012, 08:15:41 AM

I love it,,, The big three jump right in there... ... No that's funny chit right there... LMAO.

Cvobiker they are battling for the golden troll award. Guess business is slow they all jumped pretty quickly

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #29 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:46:58 PM »

Well with all those bikes I am sure you have a vendor of choice. Cool

There is a technical side of the discussion now you open a "people" side

At the end of the day we are not the enemy and what you call "trolling" may in fact be just that. I help a lot of guys for free. No monetary gain to be had. Not much recognition either except from the few rare very kind individuals that have flipped me credit at Cabellas and ebay for my time, voluntarily without me asking. Many expect (entitlement) help for free. Nope I can't afford to do that any longer unless they are my customer then I will take my shirt off my back to help them.

We are all the same here, all people that need to eat and want some of the finer things like our own customized bike, why beat on us for working hard? No free lunch for any of us. Part of this business as much as it pains some is advertising keeping the coffers full, sorry to say, the good news is on this forum it is not excessive and those same vendors offer free tech support.

And in this case the OP actually was offered by one of the three help which will save him from buying an expensive part or buying an inferior replacement.

Peace!, Keep it Cool

skippy49 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:36:25 PM »

I certainly appreciate the advice from all of the experts. That's why I post on here---to get some good advice. Thanks to everyone!

Unbalanced · « **Reply #31 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:57:09 PM »

Dewey,

The issue isnt the help, its the constant banging for business, we do this we do that we have done it a million times, we do that too. On top of that is the prophetic way you try to gain the business, sad part is more than enough times your wrong, I grew tired of pointing them out. Who knows maybe just maybe if you went back to answering the questions and giving the advice without trying to sell yourself so damn hard that the business would just naturally come your way. You want to bang for business go to the vendor section and have at it, your prices and the jobs you do, doubt most want to see this constantly across the threads, the help sure everyone can use the opinions/options, but the we can do it, i seriously doubt it, it is pretty old at this point.

The proof of knowledge is in the correct replies not the how many times you have done it or how many threads you attach yourself to for opportunistic work.

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #32 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:50:56 AM »

Apparently we have an obnoxious offense..
Vendor Bashing

Give it a rest and try not to hijack the threads with your own agenda.

The original poster is on his way and helped, the goal and I'm happy for that so is he. The OP thanked all that helped, another good thing he appreciates the help, so no harm no foul and we can resume our regular programming now.

Good thing about the Internet is you can always change channels if you don't like the content.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 01, 2012, 07:26:21 AM »

i agree 100%

cvobiker · « **Reply #34 on:** September 09, 2012, 02:53:04 PM »

i prefer this forum VENDER FREE - whereby the MEMBERS help one another.. If a member has a suggestion for a VENDOR,, that's cool,, but i think it's pathotic to watch a bunch of Trolling clowns trying to win over some business that started out as a simple question for HELP. Like most here, i do all my own work on my Harley's, all of it!! except when i need some machine work or help. Some of the things i see the Trollers throw out is complete BS.. Im not against all the Vendors but i LMAO at the ones i clasify as the BIG THREE

fighting for the last word

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 09, 2012, 04:55:38 PM »

i prefer to win the lottery,buts most likley not going to happen either.cant speak for everyone,but ALOT of forum members contact me for machine work.I try to answer questions & most the time,send guys to qualified machine shops closer in their area,wheres the problem with that?

skippy49 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 10, 2012, 06:33:59 PM »

Quote from: prodrag1320 on September 09, 2012, 04:55:38 PM

i prefer to win the lottery,buts most likley not going to happen either.cant speak for everyone,but ALOT of forum members contact me for machine work.I try to answer questions & most the time,send guys to qualified machine shops closer in their area,wheres the problem with that?

Kirby, I don't know what's wrong with some of the complainers on here but I like it that vendors are on here and giving advice and I imagine many other forum members appreciate it too.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 10, 2012, 08:09:20 PM »

i dont get it either,i do know i get ALOT of PM`s & calls from guys wanting work done or just to ask about builds,dont mind either one!

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #38 on:** September 15, 2012, 08:27:23 AM »

We take time away from our work here, to field a TON of incoming questions, daily, that in no way we get paid for.
Happy to try and point folks in a direction that will aid them.
Same on this message board.
Once that time is gone, from the work day/week/month, it is gone.
Mucho misconception as to what goes on behind the keyboard.....................
Scott

Dead_Reckoning · « **Reply #39 on:** September 15, 2012, 08:34:32 AM »

Quote from: Twolanerider on August 29, 2012, 02:14:01 PM

You've got another more thorough, albeit considerably more expensive, option to consider. Especially if you're going to the expense of splitting the cases following a bad crank anyway.

The most important weakness on the older style cam plates was the cam tensioners. HD offers part number 25284-11. This is a new cam plate (complete) and a new oil pump. The pump provides better pressure and scavenging than the original and the plate uses the newer style cam tensioners. From one of the 20% discounting sellers the kit is $420-ish. But it's a worthwhile consideration.

That is the way I went Don with my 03 SERK. No problems at all and I never ride wondering when those OEM CAm tensioners are going to fail.

DR

Unbalanced · « **Reply #40 on:** September 15, 2012, 05:05:34 PM »

Quote from: Hillsidecycle.com on September 15, 2012, 08:27:23 AM

We take time away from our work here, to field a TON of incoming questions, daily, that in no way we get paid for.
Happy to try and point folks in a direction that will aid them.
Same on this message board.
Once that time is gone, from the work day/week/month, it is gone.
Mucho misconception as to what goes on behind the keyboard.....................
Scott

wow, the feeling of entitlement, this site was originally about the bikes, sharing information and helping others which morphed into a many friends and a common love for riding and all things harley. This takes it to a new level of entitlement. So you answers questions that was what the forum was here for, not the purpose of because you answer the questions and help people that you are entitled to chase them for money, you know we do this we do that, sending of PM's to prey on them cause your a business. So now everyone can all see its not about being your buddy, its not about making or helping you make the right choices for you, in the end its about them making money and bold enough to say it. This is exactly what many of us hoped the site would never come down to, and who knows maybe the moderators will change that.

Maladjusted · « **Reply #41 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:59:38 AM »

Quote from: cvobiker on September 09, 2012, 02:53:04 PM

i prefer this forum VENDER FREE - whereby the MEMBERS help one another.. If a member has a suggestion for a VENDOR,, that's cool,, but i think it's pathotic to watch a bunch of Trolling clowns trying to win over some business that started out as a simple question for HELP. Like most here, i do all my own work on my Harley's, all of it!! except when i need some machine work or help. Some of the things i see the Trollers throw out is complete BS.. Im not against all the Vendors but i LMAO at the ones i clasify as the BIG THREE fighting for the last word

uhh... spell check?

Maladjusted · « **Reply #42 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:07:19 AM »

For those of you bitching about vendor participation (cvobiker, unbalanced.. etc) just block the offending (to you) user and you will no longer see their replies.

If you need assistance with this process.... ask a mod.

I, for one, appreciate Dewey, Kirby's and other's input... these guys do it everyday and have more experience doing it than most others.

Mal

Maladjusted · « **Reply #43 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:15:22 AM »

Quote from: Maladjusted on September 19, 2012, 09:07:19 AM

For those of you bitching about vendor participation (cvobiker, unbalanced.. etc) just block the offending (to you) user and you will no longer see their replies.

If you need assistance with this process.... ask a mod.

I, for one, appreciate Dewey, Kirby's and other's input... these guys do it everyday and have more experience doing it than most others.

Mal

Huh... on second look... seems like you cannot "ignore" users on this board.

Ah well... flame on.

skippy49 · « **Reply #44 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:20:31 AM »

Quote from: Maladjusted on September 19, 2012, 09:07:19 AM

For those of you bitching about vendor participation (cvobiker, unbalanced.. etc) just block the offending (to you) user and you will no longer see their replies.

If you need assistance with this process.... ask a mod.

I, for one, appreciate Dewey, Kirby's and other's input... these guys do it everyday and have more experience doing it than most others.

Mal

I agree. I think they provide a valuable service to all of us. This is a free country, if you don't want to read something certain people write------Don't Read It!!! I like hearing from the "experts"----at least I'm sure they know quite a bit more than I do.

Blue Bart · « **Reply #45 on:** September 19, 2012, 07:07:28 PM »

Lever · « **Reply #46 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:50:52 PM »

x3
if it wasn't for 1 of the vendors here and their advice my 110 package wouldn't have turn out as well as it did

smiley1049 · « **Reply #47 on:** September 19, 2012, 10:08:34 PM »

Ditto!

Author Topic: Replacing Crankshaft Bushing in cam plate?? (Read 14706 times)