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[spydglide]

Good point Don, but the assimilation into the American society goes both ways.

[BLM777]

[highlight]Our current President does not have a majority mandate from the people of the USA, but he and his party nonetheless rule as they choose[/highlight].

[Twolanerider]

Good point Don, but the assimilation into the American society goes both ways.

[SPIDERMAN]

Is that you Spiderman or did Teddy Kennedy grab your member name and avatar?

[Twolanerider]

Bush promised in 2000 to be a " Uniter" He has been the most divisive president in the history of our great nation.

Spider, sorry dear, but that's trying way tooooooo hard to be intentionally obtuse.  

What the hell else is any of them going to say?  Something like:  "uh, duh, I just won a close election but I'm going to try to do as I damn well please anyway."   OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO TRY TO DO AS HE DAMN WELL PLEASES!  

It's his job (no matter who the "he" is) to try to get through as much of his vision of what's correct as he can.  That's why there are two parties and a bi-cameral legislature and a courts system on opposites sides of that multi-sided fence.  

Spider, you're a bright guy.  And you often stir simply for the sake of stirring; just for the fun of it.  But that means you're damn sure bright enough to know and understand that there is a difference, a big difference, between what they say and what they're actually going to do.  We know.  We expect it.  We act on the faith of that fact.  To profess anything else is making yourself look less intelligent than you really are simply to give yourself something to bitch about.

[Twolanerider]

bitter division between Muslims and other faiths in that country......and they've got plenty to go around.

[BLM777]

Sorry Dude, but your crayola [highlight]color chart[/highlight] obscures the fact that in 2000 Bush did not win the popular vote by about 1,000,000 votes and in 2004, Kerry got nearly 50,000,000 votes. I don't know about you, but [highlight]if 50,000,000 of my fellow countrymen voted against me, I would be looking to work with them[/highlight] and avoid splitting the country down the middle. Bush promised in 2000 to be a " Uniter" He has been the most divisive president in the history of our great nation.

Sure hate to upset a liberal first thing in the morning, but occassionally it's inconvenient when the FACTS get in the way of rhetorical Bush bashing.  Certainly didn't want to confuse you with the "color chart" (more commonly referred to as an Electoral College breakout) so I will include the documented result that with 50.7% of the POPULAR VOTE, G.W. Bush is the first presidential candidate since his father George H.W. Bush in 1988 to receive a POPULAR MAJORITY of votes.  Your assertions regarding the lack of a popular vote "mandate" are just historically WRONG, regardless of how desperately some would wish to rewrite history.

In actuality, 62,040,610 Americans voted against you in the 2004 election.  Maybe you should consider a more moderate profile to avoid "splitting your countryman" based upon the POPULAR MAJORITY.

FACTS always contribute to the readability of political rantings, not to mention adding a modicum of credibility.

[SPIDERMAN]

    It always amuses me how the supporters of this president quote the facts that support their assertions in a tone so righteous as to disuade argument and yet ignore the facts that disagree with their views. I'm not so easily cowed.  I assume you're talking about the 2004 election, because the facts are in the 2000 election that Gore recieved more of the popular vote than Bush. Bush won the electoral college based on your (call it whatever you like) chart so according to the Constitution of the United States of America, that makes him president. I may not like it, but it is the law of the land and I support it.
     Going with your info as fact for the 2004 election, are you of a mind that a 0.7% margin gives the elected party the right to ignore the remaining 49.3% of the population ?  I'm sorry Brian I just don't see that as reasonable. And that's what I consider myself - reasonable, however when faced with extremism I confront it with extremism. I am of a mind that our country should be governed in a manner which best represents the will of the people. And I interpret the will of the people to me something larger than a 0.7% margin. While it may amuse you to label me as a Ted Kennedy liberal, I am anything but. If I were to actually label myself, I would consider myself a Ronald Reagan Republican. President Reagan will be remembered by history as a great man. Despite the wishes of you and every other Bushie, George W. Bush will be remembered by history in far less glowing terms. His accomplishments to date - - -3 trillion dollars added to the national debt, over 1 trillion of that spent on a war that has created civil war in the country it's being fought in, created division in our own country and cost 3,000 plus American lives and 100,000 plus Iraqui lives, international condemnation of the United States, a decrease in the standard of living for 90% of Americans, A growing crisis with the Pension Guarantee Authority (in addition to the Social Security annurism) and probably the worst of all things, average Americans like you and I so polarized that we cannot even consider the other's position. I'm sorry Brian, but that's just sad and at the end of the day I blame George W. Bush for dividing the nation instead of uniting it as he promised after winning the Electoral College election in 2000.  


B B  

[BLM777]

Sorry, you missed the point of includiing facts again.  Think I'll take a time proven position while considering your irrationality.   Never wrestle with a pig...you both get all dirty and the pig likes it....

Adios

[SPIDERMAN]

Twolane,
            You're right and you're wrong. Trying to explain the difference in this forum is all but impossible. Like it or not, this website tends to be a soundbite forum. That's why some of my posts seem extremely provocative, so you're right in that sense. What you're wrong about is my believing that the majority party has a repsonsibility to work with the minority party. My issues on this front have nothing to do with Iraq by the way. Right or wrong,the conflict in Iraq was approved by a majority vote representing both parties. We have a responsibilty to the men and women of our Armed Forces to support whatever it takes see this through. But IMO the domestic agenda of this administration has been one big cluster _ u _ k. And that's why I go on these rants. But, my explanation for my opinion in this area would run to about 30 pages and as I said, this site lends itself better to soundbites. Sorry , I wish I could give you more. I'd actually be happy to in person, but I'm looking to Maggie Valley as a celebration of the motorcycles we love and the friendships that often spring from the commonality of that

B B

[SPIDERMAN]

Sorry, you missed the point of includiing facts again.

[HWYMAN1]

Why?

[HWYMAN1]

There are two ways of looking at the world. Either you can think as Twolane does ( which I completely agree with ) or you can kill all of the people you don't like. What you can't do is where we're at now which is some sort of twilight zone middle ground where we kill some and try to get along with others. The only way there will ever be peace in the world is if everyone recognizes the rights of everyone else to think, worship and live their lives as they choose. If that choice means following the edicts of religious fanatics with strict and unbending rules for life then that is their choice. Muslims accept this and are happy and content when allowed to live their lives under this type of system. Why the hell we think we're doing them a favor by turning their world upside down and trying to
" allow" them to emulate the US is beyond me. I may be naive, but I truly believe that if we stopped trying to ram the USA way of life down everyone's throats, we'd be a lot better off.

 

[SPIDERMAN]

otophile
            Appreciate reading your posts. Doesn't matter that I agree or disagree with any or all of what you write, what matters is that your posts respect my right to an opinion. As such, I respect your right to same. More of which and we'd all be better off.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

B B

[HUBBARD]

Most of you guys know where I stand.  For those that don't, read the following.  My sentiments, exactly.  Later--HUBBARD


You gotta love Robin Williams......
Even if he's nuts!
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan
What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up
And repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan...
(Hard to argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace
But I have not heard of a plan for
Peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs,
Past & present.
You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein,
And the rest of those "good ole boys". We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East, and the Philippines .
They don't want us there.
We would station troops at our borders.
No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave
We'll give them a free trip home.
After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately,
Regardless of who or where they are.
They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in.
If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here.
Asylum would never be available to anyone.
We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home, baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort
To become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy, but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while .

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil.
If they don't like it, we'll go someplace else.
They can go somewhere else to sell their production.
(About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of us know that what we give them is stolen or given to the army.
The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

11) The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...

Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

The Statue of Liberty is no longer
Saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.
She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "