Topic: Dealer sales restrictions? (Read 4662 times)

1abastarsmda · « **on:** August 22, 2012, 10:38:52 PM »

I just noticed this on a dealer website. Is this something new that we are going to see everywhere? Are they trying to make sure that you can't shop around on the internet and find a better deal on a new bike?

New Vehicles

Dealer obligation to the tri-state area mandates that NEW bike sales are restricted to a 150 mile radius of the dealership!

I never noticed this anywhere in the past. So, if I lived 1000 miles away and I was traveling and broke down near this dealership, and my engine was blown, I couldn't decide to just trade my bike in there and continue on my journey. Something is very wrong with this concept. There goes the "Fly and Buy" concept too. I sure hope that Harley isn't taking another step to screw with free marketing in the US. I guess that if they want to be consistent with their rule, then I suppose that anyone that lives more than 150 miles from aany Harley dealer isn't allowed to buy a new bike. What a crock!

murphy · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2012, 10:45:36 PM »

You sound surprised.

1abastarsmda · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2012, 10:49:34 PM »

Quote from: murphy on August 22, 2012, 10:45:36 PM

You sound surprised.

Just a bit

WestCoastRuss · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2012, 11:06:28 PM »

My closest dealer is 204 miles away.....and they were happy to take my money....lots of it by the way!

Aussie · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2012, 11:17:46 PM »

My local dealer is 25 minutes away, however I travel 4 hours to another deal ( a full day return trip) that has respect for there customers and makes you feel welcome.

Cvostu · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2012, 11:19:56 PM »

I bought a bike in 2004 in ohio. That's was 1200 miles away. Then last Xmass time, I bought a 2012 in st Augustine. That's was 300 miles away. I left with 2 bikes and a lighter checkbook.

Stuart

King Glide · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2012, 11:23:47 PM »

The MOCO Has been trying to enforce that rule for 30 years. Never worked, never will....

SDCVO · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2012, 12:15:19 AM »

same thing is true for all the different High Line car manufactures (BMW, MB,Audi, Lexus etc) and it doesn't work for them either...

lilcoot · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2012, 12:57:00 AM »

Right, I can see it now. You walk into a stealership with cash in hand, and they refuse to sell a bike to you.

"We're sorry, but you live too far away. Take your $35000 and go to your local HD dealer."

Ain't gonna happen!

ultrarider123 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2012, 07:56:22 AM »

Quote from: lilcoot on August 23, 2012, 12:57:00 AM

Right, I can see it now. You walk into a stealership with cash in hand, and they refuse to sell a bike to you.

"We're sorry, but you live too far away. Take your $35000 and go to your local HD dealer."

Ain't gonna happen!

Lilcoot, would depend if you brought that 35K with you from the bank outside the 150 mile area OR picked it up from the local bank right next to the dealership....

A bit of fun there but there is NO way any dealership will stick with this....there is one particular dealership that comes to mind in Texas that would probably go out of business if they only sold within 150 radius of their store....just sayin'

grc · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2012, 08:50:45 AM »

Couldn't open your attachment, shows as an invalid file of size 0 kb.

Anyhow, this is nothing new. Plenty of Harley stores had a similar policy back in the 90's when they had more potential customers than bikes allocated to them. Harley got greedy and decided to greatly expand production capacity, unfortunately for them they did it only a few short years before the bankers and politicians put the entire world into the biggest recession since the Great Depression. But during those few short years, suddenly dealers had plenty of product and no waiting lists, and lo and behold all those local area sales restrictions and $3k to $10k over MSRP prices went away. Now that Harley has tried to go back to the "good ol' days" by severely cutting production capacity and introducing many restrictive (anticompetitive) policies at the corporate level, obviously some dealers are jumping on the bandwagon with both feet. As long as there is a shortage of paying customers, there will always be dealers who will sell anywhere. That applies to parts sales, bike sales, ESP sales, whatever. It's been true in the automotive market for decades, it's true in the electronics markets, and in various other markets where manufacturer's have tried to restrict sales and fix prices.

Jerry

TinSpinner · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2012, 09:03:14 AM »

That policy doesn't make sense for markets like Atlanta where there are half a dozen dealerships within 50 miles. I have 2 within 20 miles but I drive 60 to the one I trust.

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2012, 09:20:49 AM »

I have 6 with in 150 miles.

I have 4 in 56 miles or less. I use the one that is 56 miles away rather than the 3 that are closer.

ultrarider123 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2012, 09:25:54 AM »

X2 on what FLSTFI Dave said....drive PAST the KHD store to go an additional 35 miles to SMHD in Marrvul (that's Maryville for all those outside the area).

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2012, 09:39:54 AM »

Quote from: Ultrarider1 on August 23, 2012, 09:25:54 AM

X2 on what FLSTFI Dave said....drive PAST the KHD store to go an additional 35 miles to SMHD in Marrvul (that's Maryville for all those outside the area).

Yep, Both KHD and Thundercreek are all closer than SMHD but, since 07 we have got 6 bikes there.

I will never buy from Thundercreek after how they treated me in 02 when I wanted to buy.

kraut · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2012, 04:24:50 AM »

as of lately H-D does really try to enforce their policy: latest example.

grc · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2012, 08:50:28 AM »

Quote from: kraut on August 25, 2012, 04:24:50 AM

as of lately H-D does really try to enforce their policy: latest example.

That's a different situation than what the OP was talking about. Just like the previous case in California, this one is related to fraudulent activity by the dealership. Note that it is about the Non-Retail Sales Policy (NRSP). Basically the dealership reported bikes sold at retail to collect incentive payments from H-D when they were in fact not sold to legitimate retail customers in accordance with the policy. So they basically received incentive and PDI payments fraudulently. By reporting the bikes sold, they also started the time on the warranty, which screws the ultimate retail customer who eventually buys those bikes.

This sort of thing used to be widespread in the auto business every time the economy went in the tank, as dealers reported vehicles sold to collect incentive payments. I had the fun on more than one occasion of trying to straighten out the mess for customers who got screwed on warranty because of these crooks. And then we had the opposite problem, where dealers didn't report vehicles sold so they could avoid paying the principal on the floor plan loan for the vehicle. That one is called selling out of trust, and the finance arms of the manufacturer's or the local banks that financed dealer inventories all had to perform continuous audits of inventory to rein in those crooks.

I have absolutely no problem with H-D enforcing the legitimate policies that are part and parcel of the franchise agreement. If they didn't, ultimately a lot of customers could be screwed, not just H-D. Where I have a real case of heartburn is when H-D tries to fix prices or restrict legitimate retail sales to protect their favored dealers from some honest competition, all in the name of "protecting the brand". That is pure BS.

Jerry

1abastarsmda · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2012, 07:22:33 PM »

Quote from: grc on August 25, 2012, 08:50:28 AM

That's a different situation than what the OP was talking about. Just like the previous case in California, this one is related to fraudulent activity by the dealership. Note that it is about the Non-Retail Sales Policy (NRSP). Basically the dealership reported bikes sold at retail to collect incentive payments from H-D when they were in fact not sold to legitimate retail customers in accordance with the policy. So they basically received incentive and PDI payments fraudulently. By reporting the bikes sold, they also started the time on the warranty, which screws the ultimate retail customer who eventually buys those bikes.

This sort of thing used to be widespread in the auto business every time the economy went in the tank, as dealers reported vehicles sold to collect incentive payments. I had the fun on more than one occasion of trying to straighten out the mess for customers who got screwed on warranty because of these crooks. And then we had the opposite problem, where dealers didn't report vehicles sold so they could avoid paying the principal on the floor plan loan for the vehicle. That one is called selling out of trust, and the finance arms of the manufacturer's or the local banks that financed dealer inventories all had to perform continuous audits of inventory to rein in those crooks.

I have absolutely no problem with H-D enforcing the legitimate policies that are part and parcel of the franchise agreement. If they didn't, ultimately a lot of customers could be screwed, not just H-D. Where I have a real case of heartburn is when H-D tries to fix prices or restrict legitimate retail sales to protect their favored dealers from some honest competition, all in the name of "protecting the brand". That is pure BS.

Jerry

Very well said!

oe542bob · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2012, 05:08:08 PM »

Don't know about the restriction thing, but I had a HD dealer told me I lived too far for them to sell me a bike. I live about 40-45 miles away. I do need to mention that it was back in 1993! But I will never spend a dime there, ever!

harley56 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2012, 08:33:23 PM »

Quote from: King roadglide on August 22, 2012, 11:23:47 PM

The MOCO Has been trying to enforce that rule for 30 years. Never worked, never will....

Harley has never had a policy like this! As said earlier, this was done by dealers when their was a shortage of motorcycles. Dealers did not have enough motorcycles for their market and did not want to sell a bike to a person that they would never see again.

Puzzled · « **Reply #20 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:56:12 PM »

I'm driving 285 miles to a dealer on the opposite side of the state to pick up my new bike Saturday. I'm glad they didn't stick to the 150 mile radius.

Puzzled · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:57:10 PM »

Quote from: harley56 on August 28, 2012, 08:33:23 PM

Harley has never had a policy like this! As said earlier, this was done by dealers when their was a shortage of motorcycles. Dealers did not have enough motorcycles for their market and did not want to sell a bike to a person that they would never see again.

That is the way I understand it.

We do something similar in my line of work when supplies get low.

tweeter13 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28, 2012, 11:08:13 PM »

I live in Ohio, do you know how hard it is to find a brand new cvo ultra when they come out. Plus having a dealer tell you that since you have never bought a bike from them before and wanting a new cvo ultra would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I told him I relized that. But I would like to order one. Here Is 15 grand down. Order it. He pretty much just laughed in my face and said there is no way I was going to get one. Pretty much Bumed out when I left there. Then happened to be on vacation in Myrtle Beach so my girlfriend and I stopped in to get her a teeshirt and low and behold it was there. My baby a brand new 2011.5 FLHTCUSE6. Had no problem buying it that day even with Harley Credit. I am sure if there was a policy against it Harley Credit would have bounced it back cause of the distance. But I have to admit getting warranty work and stuff repaired close to home has been a bit rough so I drive about 80 miles away.

lilcoot · « **Reply #23 on:** August 28, 2012, 11:46:51 PM »

I bought my 2012 SG at Skip Fordyce, and in addition to collecting incentives, I was told (by an employee there) that they also were in trouble for claiming they were getting bigger down payments from customers than they actually were getting, so they could get more buyers to qualify for HD financing. HD's version of sub prime mortgages?

Don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't be surprised. They frequently mark up prices $2000-$5000 on CVOs, as do several other local dealers.

Super_Viking · « **Reply #24 on:** August 29, 2012, 11:04:17 AM »

Wonder what Black Hill's Harley Davidson going to do during Bike Week?

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2012, 02:54:15 PM »

Quote from: Tweeter13 on August 28, 2012, 11:08:13 PM

I live in Ohio, do you know how hard it is to find a brand new cvo ultra when they come out. Plus having a dealer tell you that since you have never bought a bike from them before and wanting a new cvo ultra would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I told him I relized that. But I would like to order one. Here Is 15 grand down. Order it. He pretty much just laughed in my face and said there is no way I was going to get one. Pretty much Bumed out when I left there. Then happened to be on vacation in Myrtle Beach so my girlfriend and I stopped in to get her a teeshirt and low and behold it was there. My baby a brand new 2011.5 FLHTCUSE6. Had no problem buying it that day even with Harley Credit. I am sure if there was a policy against it Harley Credit would have bounced it back cause of the distance. But I have to admit getting warranty work and stuff repaired close to home has been a bit rough so I drive about 80 miles away.

Hey Tweeter: Congrats on the new bike! You should ride right up to the showroom and give that idiot who told you that a bit of fun. Rub it in their noses, per say. They could have sold you a bike and refused?

If they couldn't order one for you, it must be because they have some kind of restrictions on their purchasing...

? What they told you just doesn't make sense from a sales standpoint at all. You walk in with a fist of bills, by golly you should be able to buy whatever you want; even if you have to order it. I'm just dumbfounded at some of the stories going around about poor treatment of customers at the dealerships.

tweeter13 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:14:38 PM »

Eagle Eye I did just that. I dont even take the bike there for service. I have had friends bikes leave there and blow up not even 1 mile down the street cause they forgot oil. They did take care of it. Another the belt started slipping cause they didnt do something right changing tires. I could keep going. So I just dont risk it. There is one dealer I havent tried. But I am working with one now that is about 80 miles away. I have Had a problem with so far but the manager there seems to be taking care of me. But we will see. By the way the salesmen said that I was very lucky to get one and was happy for me. I told him he sure lost a pretty big deal and commission check on it. He said they dont work on commission there. I just laughed when I walked out the door. I wont even buy a bolt from them if I had to. I would drive to another state first.
thanks Todd

1abastarsmda · « **Reply #27 on:** August 29, 2012, 11:05:10 PM »

Back to my original post: "Dealer obligation to the tri-state area mandates that NEW bike sales are restricted to a 150 mile radius of the dealership!"

I read that again and realized that it is not mentioning the mother company, but rather the "tri-state area madates". I know that the dealers around here have a local association, for which all but one of the local dealers belongs to (as far as I am aware). Certainly a "mandate" more than implies that this is something that would be required of all dealers in the association. However, I have not seen this from any other local dealers. I'll probably be visiting at least a few of those dealers this weekend, and maybe the one that posted this. I guess I'll have to ask some questions. If it's not really something mandated to all of the dealers in the area, then they should probably remove this from their website, as it's simply made up BS and probably breaks some sort of truth in advertising laws.

Or perhaps this is their own self-made and self-serving obligation that the principals of the dealer have decided to abide by, to only sell new bikes to those that have a higher probability of returning there for parts and service. Maybe they just worded it inappropriately. Maybe it should have said. "With the dealer obligation to supply bikes to the local area, then it only makes sense that NEW bike sales are restricted to a 150 mile radius of the dealership!" That still may not be totally just, but at least then they could defend themselves by saying that they were doing this as a service to their local customer base. In the end, it really doesn't matter since it seems that nobody else follows this rule.

hogasm · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2012, 06:06:40 PM »

Back in 2009 boat manufactures had rules that you had to purchase new boat from the dealer closest to you. I thought I wanted a new 31' Contender, 2 other friends of mine also wanted new ones. We contacted Contender and they said we must deal with Power Marine in Sneads Ferry NC. Since we did not like one of the owners of that dealership we did not purchase the 3 boats. Each of us went another route. They lost new boat sales from their policy.

Author Topic: Dealer sales restrictions? (Read 4662 times)

ultrarider123

ultrarider123

hogasm