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[1abastarsmda]

(This is not directed at anyone in particular).  I really don't understand what all of the enthusiasm is about for a water cooled engine.  Harley debuted the V-Rod and it bombed.  A water cooled tourer might do better, I'm not sure.  There are plenty of water cooled bikes available if somebody wants one.

I'm not saying that I'm enthused about the water-cooled engine.  It's just that it seems to be the inevitable at some point and there is so much talk about it, that I would like to just get it over with and see just what it is that we have been anticipating for years.

[CVOStreetglide]

(This is not directed at anyone in particular).  I really don't understand what all of the enthusiasm is about for a water cooled engine.  Harley debuted the V-Rod and it bombed.  A water cooled tourer might do better, I'm not sure.  There are plenty of water cooled bikes available if somebody wants one.

It DIDN'T flop.  Consider these points:

It is as successful as almost all the other lines.

It is one of the most reliable engine platforms out there. You don't read about a lot of issues with these motors even after twelve years.

The performance is teriffic. There are many Destroyers in competition that see the low to mid nines regularly. And if you want to you can turbo or nitrous the street and competition models to go even faster/quicker.

Currently 14 model year old bikes are getting 35 - 45% of their original selling price.

There is a huge ownership/following. Over 47,700 registered members on a V-Rod specific site alone.

For many it is a 2nd bike.

FWIW: DISCLOSURE: Yes I owned 2 V-Rods 1 street version with a highly modified motor and one competition model (Destroyer) I also owned a couple of Street Glides at the same time.

Regards

Jerry

[bbrown]

His so called marketing genius didn't help GM weather the recession. Canadian and US tax payers forked out billions and billions of dollars in subsidies to keep the GM solvent on both sides of the border. Oh well, at least the guy rides.....     

LOL   GOOD POINT

[Eccool]

It DIDN'T flop.  Consider these points:

It is as successful as almost all the other lines.

You have GOT to be kidding.  Go for a ride today.  How many V-Rods did you see?  Probably none, or maybe one.  Walk into virtually any dealership.  How many do you see on the floor?  Very few (and it's not because they sold them all - lol).  It's because dealers like to carry what sells.  By any objective measure, the V-Rod bombed.

 

[CVOStreetglide]

Maybe.....in your world but not oin a lot of other locations.

Don't get me wrong I like both V-Rods and Twinkies because they are well engineered and offer different experiences.

[bbrown]

Consider the fact that you started this thread way back on March 4th (over 4 months ago).  I'm asking you to look at yourself only and then tell me if your interest in seeing the 2014 Harleys stops when they aren't debuted at Sturgis.  Obviously, the answer is no.  Impatient and can't wait to see them looks like the answer would be yes.  Disappointed...probably.  Are you planning on pulling the trigger and buying an Indian without seeing the new Harleys?  Probably not, but if you were, then you would probably buy the Indian if you were that impressed with it, regardless of what Harley does.  My point is that trying to make this into some kind of argument that this is some huge marketing mistake by Harley is a bunch of poppycock.  Harley already has your attention and they very well know it.  Face it, most of us know that our bikes are not the best built machines sold by a long stretch, yet we pay top dollar for them while already knowing that we are going to make all kinds of changes to them.  Apparently, we don't even like the bikes as they are sold.  We need to make numerous changes to them and still aren't satisfied and we continue to look for new ways to change them.  My friend, if that isn't marketing genius, I don't know what it is.  If anything, it might take the person thinking about popping for the Indian and delay their purchase and give them some time to think about what they are doing, while they wait to see the new Harleys.  I'm just as anxious to see the new Harley lineup as everybody else is.  Yes, they have their hook in me too.  But the anticipation doesn't fade, it grows as we get nearer the release.  I for one will be disappointed if we don't see at least one water-cooled model this year (excluding the Vrod of course).  We all know it's coming one of these years, and I would like to see a finished product to see what they actually come up with.  Then I can go back to waiting to see if they have a lot of bugs to work out and decide how long to wait to own one.





Wow. Lots of assumptions here. My intent was not to make it an "argument"

[ultrarider123]

I've been pondering on this water cooled motor deal for 2014 or later.  The vRod was designed (with MUCH help from Porsche) specifically as a water cooled engine and it's a great motor (again, thanks to the Germans).  The rumors are a'flyin' on what the next water cooler will be but here are my thoughts.  If the MoCo retrofits the twin cam as a H2O cooled and doesn't design an all new engine strickly as a water cooler (as the vrod) there will be major problems.  It took a few years to get the Evo "perfected" and except for the years they went away from Timken bearings, they were great motors and lived from 1984 to 2000.  The twin cam is a very good motor but there are still issues with it after 14 years.  The vRod motor has actually been a very good motor from the start but it was always a water cooled motor design.  Retrofiting an air cooled motor can be done but it's a challenge and knowing the MoCo, I wouldn't touch one for the first 5 years, maybe longer.
Fuel injection was a given and with the EPA regs, water cooling is coming for our HD's.  I'm hoping that they learn from the past (I know what your thinking here....just as I'm typing, I'm laughing out loud) and go with either a revamping/upgrading of the vRod motor OR a whole new water cooled motor design.....

[PierceEye]

I've been pondering on this water cooled motor deal for 2014 or later.  The vRod was designed (with MUCH help from Porsche) specifically as a water cooled engine and it's a great motor (again, thanks to the Germans).  The rumors are a'flyin' on what the next water cooler will be but here are my thoughts.  If the MoCo retrofits the twin cam as a H2O cooled and doesn't design an all new engine strickly as a water cooler (as the vrod) there will be major problems.  It took a few years to get the Evo "perfected" and except for the years they went away from Timken bearings, they were great motors and lived from 1984 to 2000.  The twin cam is a very good motor but there are still issues with it after 14 years.  The vRod motor has actually been a very good motor from the start but it was always a water cooled motor design.  Retrofiting an air cooled motor can be done but it's a challenge and knowing the MoCo, I wouldn't touch one for the first 5 years, maybe longer.
Fuel injection was a given and with the EPA regs, water cooling is coming for our HD's.  I'm hoping that they learn from the past (I know what your thinking here....just as I'm typing, I'm laughing out loud) and go with either a revamping/upgrading of the vRod motor OR a whole new water cooled motor design.....

For me it would have to be the same design as our air cooled or it will not have the same sound and the torque we love
....JMO

[North Georgia Hawg]

Water-cooled heads would do quite a bit to lessen the overall heat. Not as much as a true liquid-cooled modern engine like the one in the V-Rod... But they would enable the MoCo to get a few more years out of the (cough) "real" Harley pushrod V-Twin.

Now, if they came out with a BAGGER with a V-Rod engine, that might be a real game-changer for me. I would love to have a truly modern, quad overhead cam, liquid-cooled Touring engine that makes 125 HP out of the box with no heat issues. The different exhaust note would not bother me a bit.

Ken

[PierceEye]

Water-cooled heads would do quite a bit to lessen the overall heat. Not as much as a true liquid-cooled modern engine like the one in the V-Rod... But they would enable the MoCo to get a few more years out of the (cough) "real" Harley pushrod V-Twin.

Now, if they came out with a BAGGER with a V-Rod engine, that might be a real game-changer for me. I would love to have a truly modern, quad overhead cam, liquid-cooled Touring engine that makes 125 HP out of the box with no heat issues. The different exhaust note would not bother me a bit.

Ken

Here you go :-)   http://www.hotbikes.insitetrading.com/index.html

[Eccool]

Maybe.....in your world but not oin a lot of other locations.

Don't get me wrong I like both V-Rods and Twinkies because they are well engineered and offer different experiences.

There is a post in the Harley Tech Talk forum in the V-Rod section.  It is titled "V-Rod Market".  A salesman that works at a Harley dealership asks what can he do to sell more of them because they can't give them away.  How well engineered they may or may not be has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they bombed in the market place.  I'm not sure a water cooled tourer would do substantially better.

[1abastarsmda]

"Wow. Lots of assumptions here. My intent was not to make it an "argument""

I was not meaning to use the term "argument" in the sense of debating back and forth with another.  Rather, I was speaking in terms of "argument" in the sense of that you were stating your case that this was a huge marketing mistake for Harley.  No personal attack intended.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.  My point was that the existence of this thread itself shows that we all are still on the edge of our seats to see what's coming, and they could wait until next year to release the new models and we would all keep our interest active.  I realize that sometimes I should just keep my hands in my pockets and forget that I know how to type, but sometimes I just can't resist stirring the pot a bit.

[Twolanerider]

Water-cooled heads would do quite a bit to lessen the overall heat. Not as much as a true liquid-cooled modern engine like the one in the V-Rod... But they would enable the MoCo to get a few more years out of the (cough) "real" Harley pushrod V-Twin.

Now, if they came out with a BAGGER with a V-Rod engine, that might be a real game-changer for me. I would love to have a truly modern, quad overhead cam, liquid-cooled Touring engine that makes 125 HP out of the box with no heat issues. The different exhaust note would not bother me a bit.

Ken

Water cooling in a bike like a Harley bagger might indeed get heat out of the engine.  But I don't expect it to make the riding experience at all better.  In fact I expect the riders to absorb a penalty for the gain acquired by the engine.

No one thinks that Harley is going to clad the engine with body panels.  That being so the only place a pair of small radiators can go on a Electra Glide or a Road Glide is the lowers.  And we reside behind those lowers.  So where is the heat from the radiator going to radiate?  Right back to us in the saddle...

That lack of alternative radiator location is why I fully expect water cooled heads only. Sealed water jackets that don't go lower.  At least for awhile.  That why bikes that can't or won't ever get lowers can stay with the same engine.  Dynas and Softails will get the air cooled heads and their service lives will continue until something actually new actually has to be done.

[donald p]

More likely we could see OIL cooled heads on the new harley's.

[LC110]

More likely we could see OIL cooled heads on the new harley's.

Ssshh, Your not suppose to tell anyone.