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[Threephase]

So I go to my dealer today to get a new battery for my bike. Considering the new lithium ion version. Compact and lightweight.

Decided to buy it. Was told I have to buy a specific battery charger/tender for it since it is a lithium ion battery.

Sooooooo, I then asked, “how does the bikes charging system know it is charging a lithium battery?”

Valid question or am I missing something?

[Dennis97]

I'll bet the person you asked had a deer in the headlights look. That is a very good question to ask. I don't think I would put one in unless they can explain how it could charge properly in the bike. Lithium is charged differently.

[CVO Couple]

Might have something to to with being left on a charger versus riding the motorcycle for  several hours and a tender being on for days/weeks. Fully charged voltage is slightly different I believe.


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[RivRaptor]

Regular battery maintainers keep your battery topped off by hitting the battery with multi-hit pulses @ around 700ma (less than 1 amp) current, this is fine for a regular lead acid or gel battery but can cause a lithium battery to over heat and possibly explode.  Lithium batteries need a constant (steady) 2amp charge to top off or maintain.  Your charging system on your bike is a constant type charging system.

[Para Bellum]

Regular battery maintainers keep your battery topped off by hitting the battery with multi-hit pulses @ around 700ma (less than 1 amp) current, this is fine for a regular lead acid or gel battery but can cause a lithium battery to over heat and possibly explode.  Lithium batteries need a constant (steady) 2amp charge to top off or maintain.  Your charging system on your bike is a constant type charging system.

Riv, can you give me a link to that info?  It just doesn't feel correct, since a steady 2 amp current delivers *at least* 3 times as much energy (and heat) as does a 0.7 amp *pulsed* current.  Thanks.

[Twolanerider]

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

And many others.  Li-ion charging requirements/differences and the potential dangers attendant to doing it wrong isn't magic nor new anymore. It's as dangerous as telling Gary he looks good on the orange Honda. 

[Threephase]

This paragraph in the article makes sense. I can accept this explanation.


“ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge. When fully charged, the charge current must be cut off. A continuous trickle charge would cause plating of metallic lithium and compromise safety. To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the peak cut-off as short as possible. “

[Madmanmike]

I have only read about this, I don't have one, but I read that the LiOn batteries hold their charge so well, trickle charging is really unnecessary.

[CVO Couple]

True. But most modern vehicles have a small draw on them all the time. If not run to recharge regularly should have a battery maintainer.


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[Eqcons]

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

And many others.  Li-ion charging requirements/differences and the potential dangers attendant to doing it wrong isn't magic nor new anymore. It's as dangerous as telling Gary he looks good on the orange Honda. 

The Harley ones are not LiIon though, Don.  They are LiFePO4 - isn't that different from LiIon? (I dunno!)

[2k]

Google says:

The lithium-iron (LiFePo4) battery has a slight edge over the Li-ion (LiCoO2) battery for safety. This is important because a battery should not get overheated or catch fire in case of overcharging. The lithium-iron battery has superior chemical and thermal stability.

[RivRaptor]

Riv, can you give me a link to that info?  It just doesn't feel correct, since a steady 2 amp current delivers *at least* 3 times as much energy (and heat) as does a 0.7 amp *pulsed* current.  Thanks.

We can get really deep when discussing this subject.  Trying to keep it simple,  what I am referring to a 700ma pulse rate (Pulsed rate is also know also as a float or trickle charge after top off, which you never want to do for storage to a lithium battery.  Lithium's also do not need to be topped off for long term storage as they do not lose much voltage over time.  (there are other reasons)  There are also other specific things to take into consideration when charging lithium 's (too much voltage, cell balance, and how the voltage is applied and when)  A local shop selling early lithium's (of which I purchase a few) stop selling them because of a couple of reported fires.  Turns out if you had a faulty voltage regulator that happen to charge over 14.5 - 15 volts it could cause a fire.  The shop still won't sell them even though the new batteries have protections built in, but that doesn't make them bullet proof. I removed them from my older Ducati's due to this (Ducati's in my experience have flakey charging systems)  In my other post was just trying to explain the difference between the two chargers I have for my bikes (I also have much more specialize chargers for my RC stuff) and probably could have done a better job.  Basically don't trickle charge a lithium battery and after a steady short charge on a lithium, disconnect the charger.

[porthole]

The Harley ones are not LiIon though, Don.  They are LiFePO4 - isn't that different from LiIon? (I dunno!)

LiFEPO4 (lithium iron phosphate) are different, and much safer then the lithium ion batteries famous for self destructing.

Do the Harley replacement batteries have built in battery maintenance systems aka BMS?

LiFEPO4 batteries do require a different charge profile and do not use the desulfation mode some chargers automatically apply.

There are also charge limitations for temperature extremes.
The technology is neat and is really suitable in deep cycle applications.

I have six 100 ah LiFEPO4's in our RV.
I increased my storage capacity by a factor of 6 at half the weight and only increasing the footprint by two batteries.

[skratch]

I have only read about this, I don't have one, but I read that the LiOn batteries hold their charge so well, trickle charging is really unnecessary.

if you disconnect it from all draw, it will last a long time.  but, with a parasitic draw on it (think security, radio memory, etc) it will not last near as long as an agm battery before needing to be recharged.

[Para Bellum]

This paragraph in the article makes sense. I can accept this explanation.

Thanks, that does make sense.

In my other post was just trying to explain the difference between the two chargers I have for my bikes (I also have much more specialize chargers for my RC stuff)...
  Basically don't trickle charge a lithium battery and after a steady short charge on a lithium, disconnect the charger.

Thanks, I get it now.  Sure are a lot of ins and outs to the new batteries!  Helps to have this good thread so we can all get up to speed on them.