www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: Twolanerider on April 06, 2011, 07:39:53 PM
-
The 05 just got hinky. While I've swapped gear sets several times I've never rebuilt one. So for anyone with more experience than mine what's your best guess for the weirdness the red bike just perpetrated. It:
Never made any unusual noises. Or at least no unusual noise I could hear in a half helmet on a windy day. No odd noises in neutral on the shop floor.
While on the highway riding to find food. Cruise on going 70 in 5th. Engine slightly revs, cruise control kicks off and the engine is idling.
Obviously quickly pull in the clutch. But releasing clutch still has engine freewheeling. Application of throttle isn't felt at all in the drive train.
Coast to the side of the road. Wish I'd thought to try it in lower gears as was downshifting and coasting to a stop. But I'd already decided I'd broke a belt.
Belt wasn't broke. Working through the gears with the engine off feels normal but the neutral light never illuminates.
Put it in neutral and roll the bike back about six feet. Then try putting it in any gear to see if will still roll. It won't.
But after rolling the bike in neutral and attempting to roll it in first the neutral light is working again. Start the bike up and it'll pull itself in first.
Thinking that the lack of scary noises and a bike that'll move at all is better than waiting for roadside assistance and a trailer home I give it a try. Bike pulls away normally. Worked through all the gears upshifting and downshifting. All feels and sounds normal. Bike made it the 20 miles home without issue.
So what happens to make a bike suddenly free wheel in 5th gear, never make an ill sound and then take off and work fine?
Ok, while you all contemplate that I'm going to take the Road Glide and go find tacos. There's more than one way find food.
-
I'd start with dropping the the gear oil and checking the magnet for .......... Maybe the transmission gremlins found you. Good luck Don!
-
Sounds like it just popped out of 5th.
-
But more importantly---did you get the tacos?
-
If you have a heal shifter the first idea would be sounds like your foot may have gotten to close to the shifter and nudged it a little bit and helped it pop out of gear under load into a false neutral.
-
I'd start with dropping the the gear oil and checking the magnet for .......... Maybe the transmission gremlins found you. Good luck Don!
Did you see this one while you were on the road, if so it may be the cause
-
Ive had mine slip between gears before kinda faked me out but no problem kept going. A lot of guys have had the clutch basket splines strip out but then it no go period :bananarock:
-
Ive had mine slip between gears before kinda faked me out but no problem kept going. A lot of guys have had the clutch basket splines strip out but then it no go period :bananarock:
Thanks for the insights guys.
That's what it felt like Van; as if it went to neutral. But I've never had a false neutral on a Harley gear box between the upper gears. Also never had one when I wasn't shifting and just didn't get it home. Wish I was more familiar with these little gear boxes. Muncies and Saginaws are easy. These things I don't know at all well.
Am hoping it's as simple as the thing just decided to hop out of gear. But am still going to look things over a bit before trusting it completely.
No heal shifter so didn't bump anything either. And if it did just hop out on its own I'm still at a loss to explain what was off to keep the neutral light from working until everything had rolled a few feet manually with the engine off.
-
But more importantly---did you get the tacos?
Absolutely. Road Glide to the rescue. At a little stand about an hour away on Grand Lake. Most excellent.
-
Perhaps the red bike is jealous of that green bike sitting on your lift... ::) :cucumber:
-
Perhaps the red bike is jealous of that green bike sitting on your lift... ::) :cucumber:
You know it man. Green with envy :mango: !
-
Thanks for the insights guys.
That's what it felt like Van; as if it went to neutral. But I've never had a false neutral on a Harley gear box between the upper gears. Also never had one when I wasn't shifting and just didn't get it home. Wish I was more familiar with these little gear boxes. Muncies and Saginaws are easy. These things I don't know at all well.
Am hoping it's as simple as the thing just decided to hop out of gear. But am still going to look things over a bit before trusting it completely.
No heal shifter so didn't bump anything either. And if it did just hop out on its own I'm still at a loss to explain what was off to keep the neutral light from working until everything had rolled a few feet manually with the engine off.
Ain't that the truth!
The SEEG has a stock Harley tranny?
What clutch is in it?
I think I'd drain the primary and drain the tranny fluid...check for nasties..
Pull the clutch and check the splines...
Pull the tranny guts (pretend the case is leaking - it will all come back to you...) and look for suspicious things...
Sounds like it was between gears....but in the higher gears, I didn't think that was possible.
Check the splines on your shifter linkage...
If you find nothing, I'd suggest you trade Brian even up for his SEEG... :)
-
Ain't that the truth!
The SEEG has a stock Harley tranny?
What clutch is in it?
I think I'd drain the primary and drain the tranny fluid...check for nasties..
Pull the clutch and check the splines...
Pull the tranny guts (pretend the case is leaking - it will all come back to you...) and look for suspicious things...
Sounds like it was between gears....but in the higher gears, I didn't think that was possible.
Check the splines on your shifter linkage...
If you find nothing, I'd suggest you trade Brian even up for his SEEG... :)
No Scott, it's not the stock tranny. It's got the SE 6 speed cassette. Clutch is the Barnett "Scorpion" in the OE basket.
I didn't think they could go between gears in the higher gears either. But from what some of the guys have said above maybe so? Just got through studying an exploded diagram in both the parts manual and a service manual. While the service manual of course doesn't specifically address the issue studying the exploded diagram I still don't think it should be able to go between gears in the upper gears. But it ain't a Muncie or a Saginaw. So I'm also not saying based only on a review of the exploded diagram.
Got Travis's new bike on the lift right now waiting on that 2011 ECM to come back from Revolution Performance. Then we're doing a bit more to it. Once his is out of the way I'll open this one up. Look in the primary and probably pull the gear cassette just to be able to visualize it all. It's worth a Saturday afternoon before spring and summer not to have it on my mind. It's also easy to be relatively unbothered by it with the other bike on the floor next to it :2vrolijk_21: .
-
But I've never had a false neutral on a Harley gear box between the upper gears.
I have and on more then one occasion.
Given your past history with that gearbox - didn't that give you a bit of a scare?
-
I have and on more then one occasion.
Given your past history with that gearbox - didn't that give you a bit of a scare?
Darn right. First thought really was that I'd broke a belt. That's exactly the way it acted. But by the time I got to the shoulder and shut it down everything else had gone through my mind about 16 times though :huepfenlol2: .
So your stock gear box popped between gears from the upper gears? Looking at this darned exploded view I can't quite get my head around them doing that. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating riding. So if you and Van and others have had it happen it obviously can. Being a big fan of simple solutions that would obviously not break my heart either. But I'm still liable to take a Saturday afternoon and open things up before the Eureka Springs to New Orleans to Ribfest trip just to feel better about it.
-
Well with your previous "experience" I would think a look inside sure wouldn't hurt, ease any ill thoughts.
Just be careful pushing that big bearing out, not that I have any special "experience" with that :oops:
-
Well with your previous "experience" I would think a look inside sure wouldn't hurt, ease any ill thoughts.
Just be careful pushing that big bearing out, not that I have any special "experience" with that :oops:
Amen to that. One of the brethren here borrowed the tranny tools late winter and that crossed my mind again. Really can't see an open tranny case without it being a quick thought. That was ugly with a capital U.
My own anal nature on service of primary systems will make me take a look at this tranny. But it's good to get trustworthy report from the likes of you and Van that these gear boxes can do that as I didn't think they could hop between gears up there. Appreciate you guys' input.
-
It is said that there are a few people from NC that are well known for stirring the pot......me not being one of them......
first.... since you changed pipes, cams, breather, cc's.....etc....you just had to mess with STOCK didn't you :coolblue: you had to change to a 6 speed to keep up with that powerful motor :coolblue:
second....you installed that trailer hitch which put unnecessary strain on your drive train causing premature gear case failure...........good thing you are not still in warranty because the MOCO would not cover this failure :oops:
third....if you had left it stock......well never mind.....you don't listen to those NC boys anyway :2vrolijk_21:
look at the shifter drum and forks which when worn a little will induce what you are describing
-
Gotta be the redline. :o
-
Gotta be the redline. :o
One to many Shockproof's?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
SBB
-
It is said that there are a few people from NC that are well known for stirring the pot......me not being one of them......
first.... since you changed pipes, cams, breather, cc's.....etc....you just had to mess with STOCK didn't you :coolblue: you had to change to a 6 speed to keep up with that powerful motor :coolblue:
second....you installed that trailer hitch which put unnecessary strain on your drive train causing premature gear case failure...........good thing you are not still in warranty because the MOCO would not cover this failure :oops:
third....if you had left it stock......well never mind.....you don't listen to those NC boys anyway :2vrolijk_21:
look at the shifter drum and forks which when worn a little will induce what you are describing
Uh..... It is stock... (stock enough)
-
Don,
I've had it happen to my cherry and I've seen it on several other bikes as well. Each time it's been the splines on the clutch basket have sheared off. The clutch basket spins but the transmission primary shaft just sits there. Jim's fix has been to change to the Pro Clutch which replaces the HD basket set up.
-
Don,
I've had it happen to my cherry and I've seen it on several other bikes as well. Each time it's been the splines on the clutch basket have sheared off. The clutch basket spins but the transmission primary shaft just sits there. Jim's fix has been to change to the Pro Clutch which replaces the HD basket set up.
Thanks Ernie. I've had splines go on a clutch basket before also. And have fixed a couple other bikes after it has happened. If this one hadn't rode home 20 miles like nothing had happened that was thought #2 after the assumption of a broken belt. The basket will still get a close look when I check things out.
-
Thanks Ernie. I've had splines go on a clutch basket before also. And have fixed a couple other bikes after it has happened. If this one hadn't rode home 20 miles like nothing had happened that was thought #2 after the assumption of a broken belt. The basket will still get a close look when I check things out.
I guess I should have read your post more closely. Didn't see the 20 mile ride afterward.
-
It'll be nice to know what you find out Don. You don't need this much "experience". I just think your girls get jealous and want some time on the lift.
-
first.... since you changed pipes, cams, breather, cc's.....etc....you just had to mess with STOCK didn't you :coolblue: you had to change to a 6 speed to keep up with that powerful motor :coolblue:
second....you installed that trailer hitch which put unnecessary strain on your drive train causing premature gear case failure...........good thing you are not still in warranty because the MOCO would not cover this failure :oops:
third....if you had left it stock......well never mind.....you don't listen to those NC boys anyway :2vrolijk_21:
Where this is coming from makes it even funnier :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
-
I guess I should have read your post more closely. Didn't see the 20 mile ride afterward.
There's never a bad idea when considering options. I, of course, never actually ride more than 45 mph and accelerate only slowly. So clutch baskets should never be a problem on my bikes.... ::)
-
Absolutely. Road Glide to the rescue. At a little stand about an hour away on Grand Lake. Most excellent.
Have I had those before? :nixweiss: ;) :huepfenlol2:
-
Have I had those before? :nixweiss: ;) :huepfenlol2:
No way. Yours were definitely not lake side taco stand tacos. Yours come from a fine local establishment called Taco Gringos :bananarock: .
-
There's never a bad idea when considering options. I, of course, never actually ride more than 45 mph and accelerate only slowly. So clutch baskets should never be a problem on my bikes.... ::)
never actually ride more than 45 mph
Air filter should be fine also!
Unless you run into a Taco cloud.
;)
SBB