Topic: Back Surgery (Read 7975 times)

cahdbiker · « **on:** May 10, 2015, 09:14:29 AM »

Hi Guys, looking for a little advice. In 2012 I fell off a ladder carrying a roll of roofing. Smashed my already worn vertebrae. After the pain pill route for about a year I went in for surgery June of 2013. They used microsurgery to separate a couple of pinched nerves and put a small bracket to separate the vertebrae that were previously pinching the nerves. The cushioning substance between vertebrae was worn out. Stayed off bikes for at least 6 months to let it heal. Dr. said no guarantees, but I would have about 90% less pain. I felt great for about a year and a half. It started acting up again last November,( 2014) and seems to be getting worse.( Weird thing is sometimes I have a painfree day, then other times I get maybe two hours on my feet and then it starts getting sore) I guess my question is this: has anyone done the laser surgery or have any other recommendations. I have heard about something called spinal decompression also. I plan on going back to back neurosurgeon when summer is over, get some X Rays and see if anything moved in there, because at my last appt.( May of 14) the surgeon said the X Rays showed that everything was where it was suppose to be. The pain is not unbearable. My back is stiff in the mornings and then as the day progresses sometimes it will loosen up. I am very active for a 62 year old. Still go body surfing, naturally I ride my 09 SEUC when I get the chance. Any advice based on personal experience would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. CAHDBIKER

OBB · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2015, 09:39:20 AM »

Weird timing. I was just having a conversation with my chiropractor the other day about spinal decompression. He explained it to me as (for lack of better translation to you) is kinda like a stretching table. Strap across the chest and one across the waist area. Table then gets slowly moved apart to relieve the pressure. The table he has is not fully equipped but he can use it in a similar manner. Felt like it made a difference over normal visits.

I've recently been seeing commercials for the laser surgery from a Dr up in the Cleveland area. I'm about to go to a back surgeon for xrays and to see what his take is on my back. If he says it's beyond chiropractic care, I'll then go to see a laser surgeon for a second opinion.

cahdbiker · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2015, 09:42:37 AM »

OBB, thanks for your input. CAHDBIKER

Quote from: OBB on May 10, 2015, 09:39:20 AM

Weird timing. I was just having a conversation with my chiropractor the other day about spinal decompression. He explained it to me as (for lack of better translation to you) is kinda like a stretching table. Strap across the chest and one across the waist area. Table then gets slowly moved apart to relieve the pressure. The table he has is not fully equipped but he can use it in a similar manner. Felt like it made a difference over normal visits.

I've recently been seeing commercials for the laser surgery from a Dr up in the Cleveland area. I'm about to go to a back surgeon for xrays and to see what his take is on my back. If he says it's beyond chiropractic care, I'll then go to see a laser surgeon for a second opinion.

OBB · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2015, 10:05:43 AM »

Just a quick Youtube search on the tables.

OBB · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2015, 10:09:52 AM »

And of course, the first chiropractor...

JCZ · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2015, 10:49:40 AM »

I've posted a lot of my back issues on this forum since I've been on this forum. I had the discectomy...where they shave the two discs. Did the pain pills (Norco) for years but eventually that wasn't helping anymore. Thought I had to give up riding and sold my 10 SESG.

Last year I started going to a Pain Clinic. I didn't think they'd be able to do anything with my back.....I've been going to chriopracters for years (the only thing that would relieve the pain but usually only lasted for a few days to a week or so), neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, MDs, etc. etc. I've had CT, MRI and x-rays for years. For me, it was combination of work related injury, life style (just not taking care of my back at all.....thinking I'm invincable), spinal arthritis and degenerative disc disease. What's a pain clinic going to be able to do for my back problems?

But my left knee started giving me huge problems and it came on almost immediatly and got much worse very quick. I was so sure it was bone on bone just grinding (that's what it felt like). X-rays showed that the bones were not touching and at their closest point (when bending my knee) they still weren't touching. I wasn't a candidate for knee replacement. The doc suggested a steroidal injection on my knee.

Three very long needles that are shot into the joint using xray to guide him, shooting the steroid and cortisone into the knee. He explained that it's temporary relief lasting only a week or two for most and up to two or three months for some. The pain in my knee was so great that I was willing to try anything. That was about eight months ago and I'm still pain free in my knee. He has told me that he does those nearly every week and he's never had a patient that it's lasted this long.

We then focused on my back issues......new CT scan, new xrays and I pushed......let's try it doc. It's been a couple of months and so far, the pain in that area of my back is still gone. However, the pain in my lower back seems to have increased a bit. He thinks it's because the pain in my mid back is gone that I'm just focusing more on my lower back. It's not excruciating pain like my mid back was.....more of a nuscience type pain. I'm still able to function and live with it so for now I'll maintain status quo and see how long the injections last in my mid back.

If it lasts like my knee has then in a few months I'll ask for the same in my lower back. Every time I go in he tells me "you know it's temproray....it is going to wear off at some point". I just keep praying for one more day of being free of that intense pain.

Chains · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2015, 11:03:59 AM »

Used to go to a Doctor of Osteopathy in Dayton Ohio. He would explain it like imagine you were a car hitting potholes all over town and then the front end started pulling to one side or the other. You would realign it and hopefully steer around the potholes from now own. He explained your body reacts the same way after years of abuse things get out of line so he as a Dr. realigns them. My wife sees him hen she is back in Ohio for her back and is good to go till she overdoes it. My personal experience was with tennis elbow so bad I could not use my left arm to lift anything. Took two treatments, that was back in 1996 never had another issue with it since.

He learnedhow to treat pain in the body when his daughter was born with a disability and had enormous pain throughout her entire body. Went to China to learn the art of manipulating the body back in line primarily for her benefit. When when passed away he carried on in his practice. I'm a big believer in his style of treatments.

I would definitely opt for the non surgical route first.

Good luck.

cahdbiker · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:21:06 PM »

Hi Guys, thanks for the input. I will definitely discuss spinal decompression with my regular Dr. before I return to my neurosurgeon. Thanks again. CAHDBIKER

Para Bellum · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2015, 02:00:14 AM »

As I understand it, a Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.) is kinda like a combination of a chiropractor (D.C.) and a medical doctor (M.D.) (my words, not something I've ever heard one of them use); this is based on talking with all three types about their education. The Osteo part means bone, and pathy means damage or disease.

The D.O. is able to do all the same procedures that an M.D. can, but IMO they are better able to deal with conditions caused by bone problems such as misalignment, erosion, or injury. D.O.s are able to specialize in the same fields as M.D.s, such as orthopedics or internal medicine.

The one problem with finding a D.O. is that there are far fewer of them than MDs, but if you look, they are around. Oh, and with the normal professional competition, you often won't hear about one type from another type.

sadunbar · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2015, 08:44:13 AM »

Quote from: JCZ on May 10, 2015, 10:49:40 AM

I've posted a lot of my back issues on this forum since I've been on this forum. I had the discectomy...where they shave the two discs. Did the pain pills (Norco) for years but eventually that wasn't helping anymore. Thought I had to give up riding and sold my 10 SESG.

Last year I started going to a Pain Clinic. I didn't think they'd be able to do anything with my back.....I've been going to chriopracters for years (the only thing that would relieve the pain but usually only lasted for a few days to a week or so), neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, MDs, etc. etc. I've had CT, MRI and x-rays for years. For me, it was combination of work related injury, life style (just not taking care of my back at all.....thinking I'm invincable), spinal arthritis and degenerative disc disease. What's a pain clinic going to be able to do for my back problems?

But my left knee started giving me huge problems and it came on almost immediatly and got much worse very quick. I was so sure it was bone on bone just grinding (that's what it felt like). X-rays showed that the bones were not touching and at their closest point (when bending my knee) they still weren't touching. I wasn't a candidate for knee replacement. The doc suggested a steroidal injection on my knee.

Three very long needles that are shot into the joint using xray to guide him, shooting the steroid and cortisone into the knee. He explained that it's temporary relief lasting only a week or two for most and up to two or three months for some. The pain in my knee was so great that I was willing to try anything. That was about eight months ago and I'm still pain free in my knee. He has told me that he does those nearly every week and he's never had a patient that it's lasted this long.

We then focused on my back issues......new CT scan, new xrays and I pushed......let's try it doc. It's been a couple of months and so far, the pain in that area of my back is still gone. However, the pain in my lower back seems to have increased a bit. He thinks it's because the pain in my mid back is gone that I'm just focusing more on my lower back. It's not excruciating pain like my mid back was.....more of a nuscience type pain. I'm still able to function and live with it so for now I'll maintain status quo and see how long the injections last in my mid back.

If it lasts like my knee has then in a few months I'll ask for the same in my lower back. Every time I go in he tells me "you know it's temproray....it is going to wear off at some point". I just keep praying for one more day of being free of that intense pain.

I suffered from lower back pain for years. Pain that would start in my lower back and end up going down my legs to my feet. I just put up with it when I was younger. As I got older, it got bad enough that I went to a chiropractor for close to a year. There was really no chiropractic improvement that would last more than a day or two. Eventually the pain got to the point it was effecting my lifestyle. Things I wanted to do, I could no longer do. Oddly enough, riding was not a problem. The location of my backrest was in the perfect spot for me and provided excellent support. I could ride more miles than I could drive a car, mainly do to my seating position. The chiropractor eventually recommended a pain doctor. This guy is like magic for me. He did a comprehensive evaluation of the source of the pain. MRI, cat scan, x-rays...diagnosed the source of my pain as my sacroiliac joints. Using ultrasound for exact placement of very long needles, he gave me shots in exactly the right location of these joints. It was truly like magic. I walked out of his office completely pain free. He told me the shots typically last 6 months. Mine lasted a year. A second round of shots lasted about 15 months. I'm currently on my third round of shots and it's been about 18 months and I've had no sign that I am nearing my next round.

JCZ · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2015, 11:15:03 AM »

That gives me hope...even if I have to go back and get the injections again.

How come it took so many years of pain before a doc suggested this? I don't know.....I'm just thankful it's working.

sadunbar · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2015, 12:47:20 PM »

Quote from: JCZ on May 17, 2015, 11:15:03 AM

That gives me hope...even if I have to go back and get the injections again.

How come it took so many years of pain before a doc suggested this? I don't know.....I'm just thankful it's working.

Me too!

lowflight · « **Reply #12 on:** May 18, 2015, 09:11:37 PM »

I have numerous spine problems for various reasons. I have done the shot thing in both the neck and the lower back with mixed results. Chiropractors would look at my X-Rays and say thanks for stopping by, but you’re too much of a liability, good luck. Had a fusion on C-3/4 in my upper neck and have been putting off C -5/6 for a number of years. September 29th of last year I had a Laminectomy on L3, L4 and L5. Broke my back while boating about 10 years ago as well so have had my fair share of spine issues.

I put off my surgery on my back for years because the host of Neurosurgeons I had seen had told me that they needed to take me apart from the mid-point on down, fuse everything, put in steel rods and my recovery would be long, hard and questionable. I received these answers from local docs as well as the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. I was having great difficulty walking after getting home from last years Western GTG. Went the shot route and then found a local Neurosurgeon that flat out told me I really needed the Laminectomy. I will never be pain free, but I can walk and ride with some care. I would do that surgery again in a heartbeat.

The point to my long winded post is see more than a Doc or two, ask around and see what that Doc’s reputation is. Find one that you like and that you trust. I always thought that having a Neurosurgeon was the person I wanted working on my spine, simply because if they can cut on the Brain they should be able to work on my spine without cutting the spinal cord. I looked briefly at the Laser thing, but I wasn’t a candidate, so don’t know too much about it. The less you have to be cut on the better, watch taking those pain meds as they jump up and bite you flat in the ass.

03Lightningrocks · « **Reply #13 on:** May 18, 2015, 11:42:14 PM »

Watch out for the pain pills. I went through 18 months of pills before finally getting aproved for surgery. Did the steroid injections... you name it. After the surgery, to basically weld three discs together and get them off my nerves in my neck, the pain pppersisted and 7 years later was addicted to Oxycontin. I spen a month last year in rehab. I was physically and mentally addicted. Nobody bothered to tell me that my body had developed a "need" for those drugs. I have never been so sick in all my life. Never again will any doctor get me to take any opiate pain reliever.

brassspike · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2015, 10:00:37 AM »

Quote from: sadunbar on May 17, 2015, 08:44:13 AM

I suffered from lower back pain for years. Pain that would start in my lower back and end up going down my legs to my feet. I just put up with it when I was younger. As I got older, it got bad enough that I went to a chiropractor for close to a year. There was really no chiropractic improvement that would last more than a day or two. Eventually the pain got to the point it was effecting my lifestyle. Things I wanted to do, I could no longer do. Oddly enough, riding was not a problem. The location of my backrest was in the perfect spot for me and provided excellent support. I could ride more miles than I could drive a car, mainly do to my seating position. The chiropractor eventually recommended a pain doctor. This guy is like magic for me. He did a comprehensive evaluation of the source of the pain. MRI, cat scan, x-rays...diagnosed the source of my pain as my sacroiliac joints. Using ultrasound for exact placement of very long needles, he gave me shots in exactly the right location of these joints. It was truly like magic. I walked out of his office completely pain free. He told me the shots typically last 6 months. Mine lasted a year. A second round of shots lasted about 15 months. I'm currently on my third round of shots and it's been about 18 months and I've had no sign that I am nearing my next round.

Similar experience here. The first neurosurgeon saw my Harley T shirt and commented that I would never ride again. That was not an option! Second opinion neurosurgeon thought exercise and the same shots would work. Same opinion from my GP, who had the surgery himself. GP was not happy with his own outcome from surgery. Anyway, I had one shot and was immediately pain free. Although I have had reoccurrences of varying degrees, this is currently working for me along with deep tissue massage once a month. I think the regular exercise is the thing that keeps me moving.
I would suggest the steroid shots to the back as a good start. Good luck...and I really mean that!

cahdbiker · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:02:07 AM »

Thanks guys, glad I rechecked my post. I am going to talk to my Chiropractor and GP regarding the Pain Doctor and shot routine. I have Anthem Blue Cross I doubt they will cover it, but I will try and coax them.( It took them 6 months to get me a refund, which I was promised for a shingles vaccine shot) Just so I am clear the Pain Clinic figures out exactly where the source of pain is coming from then they inject a steroid and cortison shots? I would go for that since my back is starting to get worse. It was fine for about a year or so after my surgery, but I don't want to go thru that again. Thanks again for all the input and advice.CAHDBIKER

Quote from: sadunbar on May 17, 2015, 12:47:20 PM

Me too!

sadunbar · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:21:16 AM »

Quote from: cahdbiker on May 27, 2015, 09:02:07 AM

Thanks guys, glad I rechecked my post. I am going to talk to my Chiropractor and GP regarding the Pain Doctor and shot routine. I have Anthem Blue Cross I doubt they will cover it, but I will try and coax them.( It took them 6 months to get me a refund, which I was promised for a shingles vaccine shot) Just so I am clear the Pain Clinic figures out exactly where the source of pain is coming from then they inject a steroid and cortison shots? I would go for that since my back is starting to get worse. It was fine for about a year or so after my surgery, but I don't want to go thru that again. Thanks again for all the input and advice.CAHDBIKER

I don't know if all pain doctors work the same way, but that's how it worked for me...

JCZ · « **Reply #17 on:** May 27, 2015, 10:28:40 AM »

Quote from: sadunbar on May 27, 2015, 09:21:16 AM

I don't know if all pain doctors work the same way, but that's how it worked for me...

And for me.

I've got the medical term for what they did, at home. If you're interested shoot me a PM and I'll look for the paperwork tonight.

Phantom309 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2015, 10:45:26 AM »

Have you ever tried this? That jump/kick and "I'm over 72 and I feel greeeeat" makes me bust a gut every time!

All joking aside I can't personally tell you if it really works or not, but anything is worth a try versus surgery. I'm fortunate that I don't have any pains or pill addictions, but I have a few buddies with back pain/troubles .... 2 of them addicted to pain meds and truck drivers such as myself, both scared of surgery ... The 3rd a bodyman his whole life, also scared of surgery but not addicted to pills and cringes just talking about needles. Long story short, he tried one of these and said it helped, not a cure-all, but did help. Avoid the pain meds if you can stand it, watching the 2 addicted to them is ugly to watch.

JCZ · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2015, 10:53:33 AM »

Interesting. After my pain doc did the injections he suggested that I get one of these inversion tables....."get a good one" but no brand recommended. He did tell me that they're not going to help everybody but for those with degenerative disc disease, arthritis of the spine, etc. that the decompression by inversion could help.

I actually did a google search for inversion table reviews to find out which tables are highly recommended and which are not recommended....waste of money.

Phantom309 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2015, 11:01:33 AM »

Well JC, you know what they say about reviews and the internet. Just like every bike is different in a way, so is back pain/troubles. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that problem personally, but it did help one of my buddies that tried it. If it has a money-back guarantee, what could it hurt to try? You just never know unless you're beyond an inversion table.

Para Bellum · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2015, 03:15:06 AM »

Quote from: cahdbiker on May 27, 2015, 09:02:07 AM

Thanks guys, glad I rechecked my post. I am going to talk to my Chiropractor and GP regarding the Pain Doctor and shot routine. I have Anthem Blue Cross I doubt they will cover it, but I will try and coax them.( It took them 6 months to get me a refund, which I was promised for a shingles vaccine shot) Just so I am clear the Pain Clinic figures out exactly where the source of pain is coming from then they inject a steroid and cortison shots? I would go for that since my back is starting to get worse. It was fine for about a year or so after my surgery, but I don't want to go thru that again. Thanks again for all the input and advice.CAHDBIKER

You might be surprised--the cortisone shots cost a few hundred dollars, vs tens of thousands for surgery; also, treatment is supposed to start with the simplest and cheapest procedures (most conservative, such as shots and physical therapy). If those work, fine; if not, move on to more complex and risky procedures. Back surgery is complex, risky, expensive, and works less than 50% of the time.

BTW: Cortisone is a type of steroid (a cortico-steroid, which is different from body-building steroids). Also: depending on the location, cause of problem, and other factors, the doc may be able to use lidocaine (a numbing agent) before or during the injection of cortisone to make it more comfortable. Ask 'em if they can.

cahdbiker · « **Reply #22 on:** June 05, 2015, 05:38:51 PM »

Hi Everybody, thanks for all the help on this back issue of mine. I went to my Doctor and he has given me muscle relaxers (three times a day) and a cortisone pill to take once a day. I could feel the difference with 24 hours. I would say about a 40-50% improvement. I am suppose to call him in two weeks for a follow up. I think I will end up getting the shots eventually because yesterday afternoon I was feeling almost perfect , then of course came the Thursday night billiards match with my friend and I stretched a muscle dropping the six ball in the corner pocket so my back is a little tight on the left side and is just now seems to be loosening up again. Thanks again for all the help. It came in handy when talking to my Doctor. CAHDBIKER

Quote from: DoubleCoppers on May 29, 2015, 03:15:06 AM

You might be surprised--the cortisone shots cost a few hundred dollars, vs tens of thousands for surgery; also, treatment is supposed to start with the simplest and cheapest procedures (most conservative, such as shots and physical therapy). If those work, fine; if not, move on to more complex and risky procedures. Back surgery is complex, risky, expensive, and works less than 50% of the time.

BTW: Cortisone is a type of steroid (a cortico-steroid, which is different from body-building steroids). Also: depending on the location, cause of problem, and other factors, the doc may be able to use lidocaine (a numbing agent) before or during the injection of cortisone to make it more comfortable. Ask 'em if they can.

mark · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2015, 06:03:40 PM »

My only comment would be to go to a reputable pain mgmt clinic and not one of the pill mills that popped up in a strip shopping center. Those are nothing but narcotics shops posing as medical offices.

CVODON · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2015, 09:33:02 PM »

I have had back surgery twice, 87 for ruptured disc and 99 for total failure between L5 & 6. Both times I put it off until I was unable to walk and or urinate. Both times I was up and walking with hours of the surgery. Not sure why I waited so long either time. In 87 I went back to work 7 days later and did good, In 99 (twelve years older) I was off for 6 weeks. IMHO if I had to do it over I would have surgery again, only quicker. My life was crap for months before the surgery, I tried injections, inversion, therapy and pain med's. Surgery was the only thing that worked.

Author Topic: Back Surgery (Read 7975 times)

mark