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[SPIDERMAN]

I would imagine given the demographics of H-D riders in general, and more to the point, CVO owners that a lot of you find yourself in my position. My daughters are adults and now I'm feeling to some degree;  Now what ?  Yes, this insane addiction I have to my H-D's is filling the void but for some time I've been pondering what my goal(s) are or should be for the remainder of my life. This site often offers a better glimpse of life than any other form of information dissemination available to me. Given the cross section of society represented within the membership one can glean some valuable life lessons as well as all of the usefull information we share about CVO's and Harley-Davidson motorcycles in general. Not that he is the only example, but I single out JR as someone who has opened my eyes to being a better person. It's one thing to say you're a Christian as many do, it's another thing to actually be one. And by that I mean actually practice the things Christianity teaches us in loving our fellow man and doing unto others and so forth. So lately my goal is simply to become a better man. To be straightforward and honest in everything I do and to put into practice the things I expound upon in some of my musings on this site. I do not know where this is going to lead, only that it is the path I have chosen for myself for now and the future. It is a path without a roadmap, for much as I respect JR, I do not consider myself a Christian. I have a deep faith in GOD and a belief in the natural order of things. But I do not believe in one true religion as being the path to heaven. There is much good in the teachings of Christ and lessons for us all, but there is also good in the teachings of some of the other of the world's great religions. I truly hope that in posting this, I do not upset anyone. It is certainly not my intent. The greatness of America is that it derives it's strength from it's diversity, not from it's sameness. Don't know if any of this touches a cord with anyone else, but it's something that's been coming together in my mind since I was in the ICU after my knee surgery. While it might not seem it since I'm known for running off on these kind of posts, some of what I've stated here has taken me awhile to be willing to admit openly. But in deciding to be a better man, I also have to be willing to state who and what I am.

B B

[RedDevil]

Well said Spiderman.  There are many of us like that.  I believe in God, but yet do not practice any particular sect.  I don't feel that to honor God, one must do it inside of a building with other people, but rather inside of your heart and soul.  I try to respect everyone's feelings, beliefs, and opinions, for everyone is different and everyone has a right to say and feel the way they do.  My dad always believed in the golden rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and I maintain that belief.  The only two people that you have to prove that you're a better person is you and God.  For in the end that's what matters.
Cheers [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif],
Red

[SPIDERMAN]

My apologies for the redundancy between this thread and the " Sunday Sermon " thread. The difference in my mind was that this thread is sort of agnostic and the Sunday Sermon thread was started by AJ to be a place for folks to post some religious thoughts and offer up stories or advice that are based in their beliefs. JR and I are close in a lot of ways on faith, but we are not the same. I felt that this thread might be an outlet for others who have a deep faith they live their lives by and yet do not call themselves any particlular thing. My intent is to try to reach out to folks who are not comfortable with wearing their faith on their sleeves so that those that do can see and understand the different ways people express their faith. Also, faith should not just be a Christian thing. Normal demographics would dictate that not everyone on this site is a Christian. I would suspect we have a few people from a variety of the world's great religions represented in the 3200 or so members we have. I was hoping to perhaps draw some of the into the great conversation that this website has become.

B B

[JR]

It is a path without a roadmap, for much as I respect JR, I do not consider myself a Christian. I have a deep faith in GOD and a belief in the natural order of things. But I do not believe in one true religion as being the path to heaven. There is much good in the teachings of Christ and lessons for us all, but there is also good in the teachings of some of the other of the world's great religions.

That's a good thing Big Buddy because if you were a Christian then you wouldn't be able to make the other statement about being the path to Heaven. A Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ and Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No One comes to the Father except through me."

Just because you believe in God doesn't mean your going to Heaven. In James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that --and shudder!" There will be eternity for Satan and all his demons and it won't be in Heaven.

I use to assume when someone said they were a Christian that they knew God's plan of Salvation until I was prompted to ask what it was to be "Saved". It was astonishing to find out many can't tell you. Many don't even know what the the Gospel of Jesus Christ is yet they think they are going to Heaven. It just shows the dis justice of our Christian Churches today!

For me it was about finding the Truth. It didn't happen overnight. For me it was a 4 year journey struggling with my own beliefs and what God's word says. During this journey I was trying to clean up my life on my own. As I learned about this God of the bible I realized this God of Love is also a Just God. There was a penalty, judgement for our sin. Heaven and Hell are real places for eternity. Sin was separating me from God and Heaven. Jesus is God's sacrificial lamb for sin. John 3:16, there was a time you would just about always see someone holding this sign up with this verse on it at a football game as the ball was going thru the uprights. "For God so Loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 

People usually stop there but the the following verses explain it better. John 3:17 "God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only son. 19) This is the verdict; Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20) Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come to into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21) But whoever lives by the Truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

It is so important to know which God you are trusting in for all eternity. Is it a God you created? "My God wouldn't send anyone to Hell, He is a God of love." Or is he a God without Christ? "I don't believe Jesus was the son of God...he was just a good prophet. Or is it the God of the bible who prophesied in the Old testament about the coming of Jesus, Savior of the world.

If you feel what you believe is the truth, God Bless You! That is between you and your God. Which gate will you enter? Matthew 7:13, " Enter though the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." I would rather speak boldly of the truth of God's word that may offend some. Then keep my mouth shut and allow them to enter the wrong gate!

God's Sweet Love to All!

                                                                  JR  

[Bagger]

I'm a Catholic, but I don't practice the faith regularly.  Christmas, Easter, and whenever my Dad visits are the only times I go to church.  I do believe in God, and I also believe Jesus Christ died for our sins................but outside of this post, I don't mention it.  I'm not a bad person, and I think it would be vain to call myself a good person.  I try, and I'm not often successful, to live my life by the Golden Rule.  Sometimes people just piss me off, and when that happens, I don't have anything to do with them.  Not very "Golden Rule" is it?  I do try to do the right thing.  I try to be respectful, and I always give 100% to everything I do.  I believe God watches over me and takes great care of me.  I believe God does the same for my family.  How busy I am is no excuse for my failure to pay enough attention to God.  Each night before I go to bed, I do reflect on the day, I pray, I thank God for each of my blessings, and I ask God to watch over me and my family.  Each morning when I wake up and look at the man in the mirror, once again I pray that God will take care of me and my family as we go our ways during the day.  For some reason, I don't think that is enough.

[hard10]

My apologies for the redundancy between this thread and the " Sunday Sermon " thread. The difference in my mind was that this thread is sort of agnostic and the Sunday Sermon thread was started by AJ to be a place for folks to post some religious thoughts and offer up stories or advice that are based in their beliefs. ...



B B

B the Sunday Sermon thread was meant to do just this, get people talking. I think we all need a little motivational inspiration and devotion. There is a lot to be learned from sharing and if we can do it here and open up a dialogue my goal is accomplished. There is a lot to learn. Some here are old enough to be my father; some are young enough to be my brother or sister. I seek wisdom. Something that others may teach me.

With that said, I thank everyone for their input. AJ

[SPIDERMAN]

    Is it fair to say that Christians believe that all who practice a faith other than Christianity are condemmed to hell ? I find that insufferably arrogant and impossibly ignorant. Who are we as mortal beings to determine which of God's messengers was right or wrong. I believe that God in his infinite wisdom sent messengers to all of his people, each in their own kind and way. I do not feel any one religion is right or wrong. Enigma or riddle ?  It is simply not for us to know in this life. I commend any person of faith. I appluad those who live by their faith and spread the good words and deeds of their faith. But I do not believe that I am born of sin as Christianity would have me believe among other things. I do believe in the power of prayer. For God hears our prayers irregardless of whom we would pray to so long as we have faith in that which we cannot explain. I am sorry if this post offends, because I do not intend to do so, but I feel the world has suffered long enough from all of the wars that religion has begotten.

B B

[SEULTRA]

JR
    Is it fair to say that Christians believe that all who practice a faith other than Christianity are condemmed to hell ? I find that insufferably arrogant and impossibly ignorant. Who are we as mortal beings to determine which of God's messengers was right or wrong. I believe that God in his infinite wisdom sent messengers to all of his people, each in their own kind and way. I do not feel you are wrong, I simply do not believe you are right. Enigma or riddle ?  It is simply not for us to know in this life. I commend you for your faith. I appluad the way you live your life in support of your faith and the open, honest and decent way you spread the message of your faith. But I do not believe that I am born of sin as Christianity would have me believe among other things. I do believe in the power of prayer. For God hears our prayers irregardless of whom we would pray to so long as we have faith in that which we cannot explain. I am sorry if this post offends, because I do not intend to do so, but I feel the world has suffered long enough from those who would kill for their beliefs.

B B

Interesting post BB ... what then would you say to someone who does not believe in a supreme being yet believes that we should treat each other decently and with respect and not disrespect others because they have beliefs contrary to their own? That's me.
I believe that religious intolerance or belief that there is only "one true faith" is narrow minded and small. I believe that it is important to have strong personal values and to be true to your beliefs. I believe also that it is wrong to impose those values on others or believe that others are lesser people because they don't share your values.
All this is, of course, just my opinion and is not meant to offend others... just offer another point of view.

[SPIDERMAN]

I went back and edited my post because I realized that I was addressing the issue and not JR in particular, so I apologize for the difference in my post as now on the site and what is quoted above. Beyond that, I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone. I am hoping to engender a debate on the value of tolerance. Because I don't believe in certain tenets of Christianity doesn't mean I don't have a deep respect for that religion. What I am trying to say is that I have great respect for all of the world's religions. But it seems that there will always be zealots who interpret their particular religion in such a way as to allow them to impose their will on others. Maybe I am truly naive, but I felt that if we on this site could agree to disagree then perhaps we could carry that forward to those we interact with outside of this site.

B B

[HUBBARD]

Man, the stories I could tell.  But I won't in a public forum.  This is what I know and believe.  There is a God, and there is a devil.  If you believe in one, you better believe in the other.  When I served the latter, he didn't worry about me.  He knew he had me, and he knew I was his deciple.  When through my Dear Mother's prayers, God put the idea in my head I needed to turn from my wicked ways, I tried to do just that.  Satan turned up the wick then, and it was a terrible battle.  I won, but not by myself.  Now, I have a choice to be a winner or a loser.  I could be either one, tomorrow.  But not today.  Today I chose to be a winner.  Now, don't you think Satan ain't jumpin' up and down right now, right here, throwin' a fit, 'cause I've whooped his a$$ today.  He wants me back, and he'll never stop tryin' to get me back.  If I do what's right, and try to lend a helping hand to my fellow man, as was done to me, seek His advice, and thank Him for my Blessings, I believe the Lion will never walk, nor will the Eagle's eye see, the path I'm on.  That don't make me an angel, 'cause I ain't.  I try to do the right thing, and not do things that cause guilt, but I haven't mastered that yet.  Probably never will.  All I can do, is try.  Later--HUBBARD      

[SPIDERMAN]

Man, the stories I could tell.  But I won't in a public forum.  This is what I know and believe.  There is a God, and there is a devil.  If you believe in one, you better believe in the other.  When I served the latter, he didn't worry about me.  He knew he had me, and he knew I was his deciple.  When through my Dear Mother's prayers, God put the idea in my head I needed to turn from my wicked ways, I tried to do just that.  Satan turned up the wick then, and it was a terrible battle.  I won, but not by myself.  Now, I have a choice to be a winner or a loser.  I could be either one, tomorrow.  But not today.  Today I chose to be a winner.  Now, don't you think Satan ain't jumpin' up and down right now, right here, throwin' a fit, 'cause I've whooped his a$$ today.  He wants me back, and he'll never stop tryin' to get me back.  If I do what's right, and try to lend a helping hand to my fellow man, as was done to me, seek His advice, and thank Him for my Blessings, I believe the Lion will never walk, nor will the Eagle's eye see, the path I'm on.  That don't make me an angel, 'cause I ain't.  I try to do the right thing, and not do things that cause guilt, but I haven't mastered that yet.  Probably never will.  All I can do, is try.  Later--HUBBARD      

Hubbard,
             Never thought I'd quote you let alone praise you, but dude the post above is so righteous, I'd be a jerk not to give credit where credit is due.

 Right on brother Hubbard, right on

B B

[JR]

    Is it fair to say that Christians believe that all who practice a faith other than Christianity are condemned to hell ? I find that insufferably arrogant and impossibly ignorant. Who are we as mortal beings to determine which of God's messengers was right or wrong. I believe that God in his infinite wisdom sent messengers to all of his people, each in their own kind and way. I do not feel any one religion is right or wrong. Enigma or riddle ?  It is simply not for us to know in this life. I commend any person of faith. I applaud those who live by their faith and spread the good words and deeds of their faith. But I do not believe that I am born of sin as Christianity would have me believe among other things. I do believe in the power of prayer. For God hears our prayers irregardless of whom we would pray to so long as we have faith in that which we cannot explain. I am sorry if this post offends, because I do not intend to do so, but I feel the world has suffered long enough from all of the wars that religion has begotten.

B B

Big Buddy I want to start by saying it is not my intention to impose my beliefs on anybody! This is an open forum in which I was explaining the Christian faith. I was trying to explain why I feel Jesus is the only way to heaven. It was not based on my own authority or beliefs, instead I used scripture from Gods Word, the bible. To read and study the bible it was clear for me to see which of God's messengers to believe in. It was in Love that I shared. God knows I am ignorant but it was not my intention to be arrogant. I simply don't want anyone to find out when it's too late that they were trusting in their own authority or beliefs to get to heaven. Don't believe the bible is God's word or don't even believe in a God? That is your prerogative. If your right and I'm wrong, what have I to lose? Nothing! If I'm right and your wrong, you have all eternity in heaven to lose. We live in a great country where we can share our beliefs and opinions freely. I feel as though we are family here and I love everyone very much. It is especially why I share what I have. God's Love and peace to everyone.

                                                               JR

[SBB]

Guys

The title of this thread is,

What to do with your life?

Not to get into all the other debates, but if JR, Spiderman, or Hubbard called and said they needed my help,.,.,.,

I would know what to do with my life at that moment.
I would be there for them!


Thus endeth Silver-Blacks lesson!

[HogBreath]

BB, I’ve got to take my hat off to you for having the courage and conviction to start this thread. This thread says a lot about your character. It makes me think. Why do we all spend as much time on this site as we do? Is it only this “insane addiction to our Harley’s” you spoke of? While that is what initially drew me to CVOHARLEY, what keeps me coming back is the potential friendships of people with similar “insane addictions”. So far I’ve only met a couple of local members of this site. Instantly we shared a common bond. While I’ve rode many miles alone, I find it more enjoyable to ride with good friends. The more the merrier. Generally, the members on this site are in the same place in life you speak of. Our children are now adults. We’ve got more time on our hands than 25 year olds starting our careers & families. We generally have the financial resources for CVO Harleys. I hope to meet & ride with all of this site’s members at some time.

I have to agree with you about JR and his character. I’ve never met the man, but I’m convinced he’s exactly as he seems to be on this site. I feel the same way about most all of this site’s members. I recently bought some chrome from a site member. He didn’t wait to receive my check before he shipped the parts. I didn’t wait to receive the parts before I sent the check.. How many other message boards would you feel comfortable in doing that? I’ve only been a member of this site for a few months, but, there are dozens of people I’d feel comfortable calling if I needed help while riding in their area. I’d venture to guess all of them would come to my assistance. I know I would come to theirs, regardless of how well I knew them.

Lastly, I’d like to comment on your statement: “I do not consider myself a Christian”.

I’ve tried to respond to this thread w/o referring to my religious beliefs, but, I’m finding it almost impossible to do. I believe there’s a presence inside of me giving me the desire to “Do the right thing”, to “Live the right way” & as you say “BE a Better Man”. That presence is different things to different people. I know what it is to me. I’d venture to guess it’s the same to you & JR. The times I’m successful at “Doing the right thing” or “Being a better Man”, I sure didn’t do it alone, so don’t give me the credit.

Finally..by your desire to be a better man are you not a Christian?

Let’s Ride brothers and all continue to “Do the Right Thing”.

HB

[Midnight Rider]

B B...Even the Christians of the world cannot agree about which form is the "right" form, and will lead a soul to Heaven.  I live in an area of the country where Southern Baptists control many aspects of government and public life, and shun those who do not subscribe to their specific way of thinking.  I work with them every day.  Many of them will stick one in you and break it off if given the chance, and think it's all OK if they go to church that Sunday, then come in Monday and do the same thing again.  Christianity, as a Philosophy of Life, is one of many great ways to live life by.  There are certainly others equally viable, and for any one group to consider theirs as the only "true" one is more than arrogant, it's ludicrous.

I hope nobody thinks the worse of me for this, but Religion is the invention of man in a vain attempt to define the meaning of his own existence.  Predominant thought believes we are the only animals on the planet who are conscious of our own ultimate death (I personally think that is arrogant as well).  Because we have an opposable thumb (and a bit more frontal cortex than 90% of other animals) and have figured out ways to communicate with each other, we are able to discuss and write about our fear of death.  We tell stories (myths) about things in feeble attempts to justify our beliefs, values, and fears.  Some have a basis in fact, some do not.  Most are exaggerated, some are mere fabrication.  Some are good stories, and should be taken to heart and moral lessons withdrawn.  Few should be taken literally.

I do not need a structure for what I know in my heart to be the right way to treat both other beings and the planet.  I have seen human beings do horrible things both to each other and other living things.  Some people find comfort within the structure of Religious Doctrine (or Dogma, depending), and for them, particularly if it gives them a reason to be better humans while on this earth, it is a good path to choose.  I know the right way to be without the necessity of that structure.  Not that I haven't failed at times in my life, but I can honestly look at myself in the mirror every morning and know that I have treated people as well as they will allow me to treat them.  I remove myself from the others.  I think that most everyone has goodness in them, they just forget where it is, and how to find it sometimes, and Religion can help them. Some people do not have any good in them.  They don't need to be here.

I think we get one chance, and this is it.  Do the right thing.  Touch people kindly in whatever way you are able.  Leave something good here for the children and all the other living things we share space with.  People will remember you if you do these things.  The memories are what matters...make them good ones.