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[spook120]

Contemplating the stage 4, cnc head build for my 2017 cvo and was wondering if anyone has any seat of the pants experience with this build. I am concerned with the noted loss of torque exactly where I spend most of my riding rpm range. Will have a non cat exhaust and tts tune. Thanks in advance

[Heatwave]

Just got my stage 4 CVO Limited back this weekend. No chance to ride it yet.

[spook120]

I have until April to figure out what I will do if anything. Thanks for the reply.

[spook120]

Not sure if I should start another thread about this, but I wonder what that 64mm throttle body is going to do to overall mileage if the bike is to be used as a touring platform.  One would hate to drop the mileage to the low 30's like it was on my 120 with a 48mm flatslide Mikuni.  Should be interesting when people start putting some miles on these builds.

[RGlideKid]

For those of us who are ignorant, could help me understand everything that goes into the Stage 4 upgrade, the relative cost of the transformation, and does it void the warranty as I heard somewhere?

[Heatwave]

Stage 4 on a M8 CVO includes larger 117 cylinders, higher compression pistons, larger injectors, larger throttlebody (64mm), high hp cam (515), stronger clutch, CNC ported heads with high perf valve springs. When combined with HDs hiflow exhaust and HD race tuner it will deliver 125hp/117ftlbs according to HD. If the stage 4 is installed in the first 60 days after purchase it is covered under the factory warranty or any additional Extended Service Plan purchased for that bike's VIN. Figure about $3000-3500 (on sale) for parts & labor, not including exhaust or race tuner. http://www.hotbikeweb.com/screamin-eagle-milwaukee-eight-stage-iv-kit

[RGlideKid]

Stage 4 on a M8 CVO includes larger 117 cylinders, higher compression pistons, larger injectors, larger throttlebody (64mm), high hp cam (515), stronger clutch, CNC ported heads with high perf valve springs. When combined with HDs hiflow exhaust and HD race tuner it will deliver 125hp/117ftlbs according to HD. If the stage 4 is installed in the first 60 days after purchase it is covered under the factory warranty or any additional Extended Service Plan purchased for that bike's VIN. Figure about $3000-3500 (on sale) for parts & labor, not including exhaust or race tuner.

Thanks.  I too, will be anxious to hear longer-term reports on what those changes bring to the table!

[cmashark]

Stage 4 on a M8 CVO includes larger 117 cylinders, higher compression pistons, larger injectors, larger throttlebody (64mm), high hp cam (515), stronger clutch, CNC ported heads with high perf valve springs. When combined with HDs hiflow exhaust and HD race tuner it will deliver 125hp/117ftlbs according to HD. If the stage 4 is installed in the first 60 days after purchase it is covered under the factory warranty or any additional Extended Service Plan purchased for that bike's VIN. Figure about $3000-3500 (on sale) for parts & labor, not including exhaust or race tuner.

I was quoted at just over $6K for the stage IV installed with their high flow exhaust and tuner.  The stage III installed with their tuner and Street Cannons was $4200.  Both has the same labor of 10 hours.  Since I am out of the 60 day window, they are only covered for one year.  The rest of the bike retains the 2 year warranty.

[Heatwave]

I was quoted at just over $6K for the stage IV installed with their high flow exhaust and tuner.  The stage III installed with their tuner and Street Cannons was $4200.  Both has the same labor of 10 hours.  Since I am out of the 60 day window, they are only covered for one year.  The rest of the bike retains the 2 year warranty.

Pretty stiff charge at $6,000 for the Stage 4 even including the exhaust. $2600 for all the Stage 4 engine parts at MSRP. Race Tuner $300. Hi-flow HD exhaust $1400. maybe 12 hrs labor. Should still be winter discounts out there through the end of Feb. Personally I think there's better options than the HD hi-flow exhaust at $1400.

[spook120]

At 6K I would be looking for a different vendor.  That is stupid money.  Figure $2500 for the kit, 300 for the tuner, 900 for labor and then what ever exhaust you want would be way less than 6K.  Shop around.  The stage 3 kit is $1600 I think so you still have a ways to go to get to the price they want.

[cmashark]

Pretty stiff charge at $6,000 for the Stage 4 even including the exhaust. $2600 for all the Stage 4 engine parts at MSRP. Race Tuner $300. Hi-flow HD exhaust $1400. maybe 12 hrs labor. Should still be winter discounts out there through the end of Feb. Personally I think there's better options than the HD hi-flow exhaust at $1400.

I'm with ya!  The only things I added, extra, was I wanted adjustable pushrods so I can easily change lifters at will, and better cam bearing.  I also ordered the cam install kits so if needed, they would be available.  Down here, our "non-riding season" is only 2-3 weeks and my military discount only wiped out the taxes....  I don't mind too much, I've been to a lot of funerals and never seen them bury any money!  lol

[FLSTFI Dave]

Stage 4 on a M8 CVO includes larger 117 cylinders, higher compression pistons, larger injectors, larger throttlebody (64mm), high hp cam (515), stronger clutch, CNC ported heads with high perf valve springs. When combined with HDs hiflow exhaust and HD race tuner it will deliver 125hp/117ftlbs according to HD. If the stage 4 is installed in the first 60 days after purchase it is covered under the factory warranty or any additional Extended Service Plan purchased for that bike's VIN. Figure about $3000-3500 (on sale) for parts & labor, not including exhaust or race tuner. http://www.hotbikeweb.com/screamin-eagle-milwaukee-eight-stage-iv-kit

Nice kit if your goal is high HP.  In my opinion it's killing the torque and moving it to the right.  Just what I do not want for a heavy tourrping bike.  I think the stage III 117 kit with the SE8-498 cam is a better choice, more torque and more torque where you normally ride at a lower RPM. 

Some people chase HP, others prefer low end torque where they normally ride.  I fall in the latter. 

[Heatwave]

Nice kit if your goal is high HP.  In my opinion it's killing the torque and moving it to the right.  Just what I do not want for a heavy tourrping bike.  I think the stage III 117 kit with the SE8-498 cam is a better choice, more torque and more torque where you normally ride at a lower RPM. 

Some people chase HP, others prefer low end torque where they normally ride.  I fall in the latter. 

A few thoughts.
- HD's stage 3 vs stage 4 torque profiles are nearly identical. The main difference of the stage 4 vs 3 is the 4's higher flow generating higher hp in higher rpms.
- if you want the best torque profile in a touring bike with an HD cam and you rarely ride above 3000 rpms, then the stock cam is your best bet. Forget about both the stage 3 or 4 kits if you ride below 3000 rpms since their advantage is above 3000 rpms

[Fullsac Performance]

Nice kit if your goal is high HP.  In my opinion it's killing the torque and moving it to the right.  Just what I do not want for a heavy touring bike.  I think the stage III 117 kit with the SE8-498 cam is a better choice, more torque and more torque where you normally ride at a lower RPM. 

Some people chase HP, others prefer low end torque where they normally ride.  I fall in the latter.

A huge amount of time and resources are being spent at TTS right now on their cam development program for the new 8 valve motor. Cole has been sharing dyno charts with me every step of the way. The man is relentless and has made some serious progress. He has two complete SE stage IV kits and has completed flow testing and comparison of the new CNC heads/ 64 TB to the stockers. We'll see shortly how good the SE Stage IV parts are on the dyno. 2500.00 is a deal for all those parts if the heads show good improvements. Just have to toss the the SE cam. Now is a good time for all the power Junkies (me and you) to sit back, hold our breath, and wait. 

Steve@fullsac.com

[spook120]

I am all for waiting, but am faced with the issue of having the modifications covered under warranty if I do it within 60 days of purchase.  I am picking up the bike in the beginning of April and would just as soon have the modifications done, bike tuned and get on with riding.  I  still would be interested in someone who has some actual seat time on a stage 4 modified bike.  I too spend most of my riding time below 3500 RPM with an occasional scoot to 5K just for fun.  I never have a passenger, and use my BMW GSA for my serious long distance trips so I guess I can be a bit more flexible in what kind of modifications I can use on my Street Glide. Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it.

[FLSTFI Dave]

A few thoughts.
- HD's stage 3 vs stage 4 torque profiles are nearly identical. The main difference of the stage 4 vs 3 is the 4's higher flow generating higher hp in higher rpms.
- if you want the best torque profile in a touring bike with an HD cam and you rarely ride above 3000 rpms, then the stock cam is your best bet. Forget about both the stage 3 or 4 kits if you ride below 3000 rpms since their advantage is above 3000 rpms
- Another thought is that with more timing advance and tuning with a Powervision plus a free flowing headpipe (warranty may be an issue), the lower end torque will be much improved in both Stage 3 & 4 kits without giving up the higher rpm hp.

The best torque profile I have seen so far was for the Woods M8-222 cam, I have seen the test's not for sale yet.  With a good head pipe, mufflers, that cam and a tune it was a very good touring torque curve.  Over 110 torque from 2250 RPM to 4500 RPM, with a peak of 121.64.  Over 120 from 2750rpm to 3600rpm.

You pretty much sum up why I don't do HD kits, all I did was use their 117 cylinders on my 13 CVO King.  Hwy cruising is right at 3000 RPM.  Twisty mountain roads is 2500 to 4000 RPM.  My CVO King is 120 torque by 2700rpm, 130 torque by 3200rpm and a peak torque of 140, and does not fall 135 torque until 5300rpm.  Hp peak is only 138.  Never have to down shift to pass, pulls like a train out of the curves on an uphill. 

[Heatwave]

The best torque profile I have seen so far was for the Woods M8-222 cam, I have seen the test's not for sale yet.  With a good head pipe, mufflers, that cam and a tune it was a very good touring torque curve.  Over 110 torque from 2250 RPM to 4500 RPM, with a peak of 121.64.  Over 120 from 2750rpm to 3600rpm.

You pretty much sum up why I don't do HD kits, all I did was use their 117 cylinders on my 13 CVO King.  Hwy cruising is right at 3000 RPM.  Twisty mountain roads is 2500 to 4000 RPM.  My CVO King is 120 torque by 2700rpm, 130 torque by 3200rpm and a peak torque of 140, and does not fall 135 torque until 5300rpm.  Hp peak is only 138.  Never have to down shift to pass, pulls like a train out of the curves on an uphill. 

Unfortunately after HD's consent decree with EPA, if you have any desire to hang on to your warranty its best to keep at least the internal parts as close to HD as possible. If the warranty diesn't matter then there are lots of great aftermarket performance alternatives.

[FLSTFI Dave]

I do understand what your saying about warranty.  My 13 King, purchases in Nov of 2012, I built the motor in Jan of 13 the first time, so warranty was gone.  Had better luck with this bike than the ones I kept factory warranty.

On the 17's they claim if you change the head pipe to no cat aftermarket the warranty is gone.  Some dealers are saying they will still cover it.

[SDCVO]

For whatever it is worth, here is my plan that my dealer and I came up with. My goal from the start with this bike is to keep it under the warranty for the full 7 years since I screwed up the warranty almost immediately on my Roadglide and just got it back from having to get a new 124 motor which as you all know wasn't cheap (though that motor is insanely fun and worth it..).
I like the way the bike runs with the stage 3 but hate the way it sounds even with the CFR slip ons and have come to the conclusion I just can't live with it. I love the tone but they sound plugged up which of course they are. I am going to put on the Fuel Moto header (shipping out Monday) with the CFR mufflers which I think will fix the issue. We are going to try and make it all work with the new SE tuner that we had to do when we did the stage 3. If he can't then we will add the new HD Auto tune when it is available which right now says mid April. I am keeping the stock exhaust (header and mufflers) and if we have an issue that involves a rep checking it out (he is more concerned about the extended warranty company than the motor co.). he said if we have a failure that would involve them coming out and checking the exhaust would be off anyway so we would never even end up installing it, just laying it close to the bike.
Obviously my dealer is being fantastic about helping me out here which I really appreciate it for sure.
we will see but "on paper" this plan should fix my problem I have with the bike-will see...

[CVOSGJoe]

For whatever it is worth, here is my plan that my dealer and I came up with. My goal from the start with this bike is to keep it under the warranty for the full 7 years since I screwed up the warranty almost immediately on my Roadglide and just got it back from having to get a new 124 motor which as you all know wasn't cheap (though that motor is insanely fun and worth it..).
I like the way the bike runs with the stage 3 but hate the way it sounds even with the CFR slip ons and have come to the conclusion I just can't live with it. I love the tone but they sound plugged up which of course they are. I am going to put on the Fuel Moto header (shipping out Monday) with the CFR mufflers which I think will fix the issue. We are going to try and make it all work with the new SE tuner that we had to do when we did the stage 3. If he can't then we will add the new HD Auto tune when it is available which right now says mid April. I am keeping the stock exhaust (header and mufflers) and if we have an issue that involves a rep checking it out (he is more concerned about the extended warranty company than the motor co.). he said if we have a failure that would involve them coming out and checking the exhaust would be off anyway so we would never even end up installing it, just laying it close to the bike.
Obviously my dealer is being fantastic about helping me out here which I really appreciate it for sure.
we will see but "on paper" this plan should fix my problem I have with the bike-will see...

I like your way of thinking here but, I have a feeling your going to find that the EPA tune provided by HD for the free flow exhaust is not going to accommodate the fuel required for your free flowing exhaust.  Your CFR's and FM head pipe are going to let that motor breath much better than the HD free flowing exhaust thus requiring AFR adjustment that the HD tuner will not allow. I could be wrong but I know someone who is trying to use the PRO Street tuner with a header/street cannon set-up and claims its running worse and is contemplating going back to stock.  If your dealer is willing to work with you, why not use the PV-2 and get a great tune for what your attempting.  Bike has a failure, the components like you state are lying next to the bike, and the bike is flashed back to your PRO Street tuner set-up for Stage 3.  MOCO and warranty company can only see the ECM was flashed, and the number of times not what the flash was. 

I know that is my plan.. PV-2 with Target Tune and stage 3.. My FM Header arrives on Thursday. Dyno-jet already sent me both .pvt tunes, with and without Target Tune. I am currently running it without til header is installed.   The beauty of PV-2, you can perform a series of Auto tunes to dial it in just for your bike. HD PRO Street Tuner is a canned EPA map.

[spook120]

So I wonder if the stage 3 HD kit with a de-catted headpipe and slip on mufflers could make 120/120 and still be reliable as an anvil?  Now that would be a bike I could really appreciate.  One other thing, and this is just my .02 I am rather tired of this constant discussion about keeping warranty vs non warranty.  It is your bloody bike, if you want to be sure to keep the warranty then play by the HD rules.  If not then do what ever makes the bike do what you want it to do and be willing to accept the consequences of that decision... Pretty simple huh?  Thanks for the replies. 

[SDCVO]

I like your way of thinking here but, I have a feeling your going to find that the EPA tune provided by HD for the free flow exhaust is not going to accommodate the fuel required for your free flowing exhaust.  Your CFR's and FM head pipe are going to let that motor breath much better than the HD free flowing exhaust thus requiring AFR adjustment that the HD tuner will not allow. I could be wrong but I know someone who is trying to use the PRO Street tuner with a header/street cannon set-up and claims its running worse and is contemplating going back to stock.  If your dealer is willing to work with you, why not use the PV-2 and get a great tune for what your attempting.  Bike has a failure, the components like you state are lying next to the bike, and the bike is flashed back to your PRO Street tuner set-up for Stage 3.  MOCO and warranty company can only see the ECM was flashed, and the number of times not what the flash was. 

I know that is my plan.. PV-2 with Target Tune and stage 3.. My FM Header arrives on Thursday. Dyno-jet already sent me both .pvt tunes, with and without Target Tune. I am currently running it without til header is installed.   The beauty of PV-2, you can perform a series of Auto tunes to dial it in just for your bike. HD PRO Street Tuner is a canned EPA map.

I hear what you are saying and obviously am worried about that but they think they can make it work. If it doesn't then I will go to a after market tuner. I think their issue is if they can make it work with the HD tuner they don't think they are going "as deep" with warranty fraud since whatever at that point failed really wouldn't have anything to do with the exhaust. If they can't make it work then we won't have any choice but to change tuner.

[pete s.]

Dealer called this morning and said my kit was in. Dropped the bike off this afternoon. Should have it back Wednesday !

[spook120]

Great! Maybe with your ride report this thread can get back to the original intent and stop with all the hand wringing about warranty vs non warranty issues. I for one am anxious to hear your first hand opinions. Thanks in advance.

[SDCVO]

Great! Maybe with your ride report this thread can get back to the original intent and stop with all the hand wringing about warranty vs non warranty issues. I for one am anxious to hear your first hand opinions. Thanks in advance.

sorry about that..

[Heatwave]

Warranty is definitely a part of the discussion related to the name of this thread. There are lots of options for increasing the performance of a Milwaukee 8 engine. For those considering using all HD parts (stage 4 for example), one of the motivations is to maintain the factory and the extrnded service coverage. If warranty is a non issue there are certainly better approaches to maximize M8 performance using great aftermarket shops to work the heads, increase compression and improve torque and HP with non-HD cams and exhaust. The primary reason for using Hd's stage 4 components is to maintain the warranty.

[spook120]

Didn't mean to be pissy. Guess I am just anxious for definitive opinions on whether to spend the cash for the various upgrade possibilities or to leave the bike alone as I did my 2015.  But then again I dumped that bike in less than 2000 miles as it did not excited me in the slightest. Again I apologize if I came off as a hard ass but am a bit frustrated with this whole HD warranty crap...even if it is an important consideration in the whole scheme of things.

[SDCVO]

No problem. Here's some real seat time perspective. I bought my 2017 CVO Limited in Oct 2016. Rode it 1500. Upgraded to stage 3. Rode it 500 miles. Uograded to Stage 4. Rode it 75 miles so far.

Assessment:
- stock bike is strongest between 2000-3000 rpms, dead above 3500
- stage 3 is Ok btw 2-3000 rpms, strong above 3500
- stage 4 is ok btw 2-3000 rpms (about the same as stage 3), REALLY strong above 3500 rpms.

I plan to add Fuelmoto headpipe and tune my stage 4 using Powervision. My last bike 2010 CVO Ultra, with improved exhaust and Powervision tuning had tremendous performance improvement particularly in lower rpms. I'm hoping for similar results on this CVO after the tuning and exhaust improvement.

Recommendation: if you do most of your riding between 2-3000 and really don't look to pump adrenaline above 3500, do yourself a favor and save your money. The stock performance is your best bet (85/102) with excellent low end trq. If you plan to only upgrade with HD components, the stage 3 (105/115 stock exhaust) is a far better investment than gong with stage 4 (115/115 with stock exhaust). If you're trying to "walk the HD line" on warranty, then improved tuning and exhaust will maximize stage 4 performance and keep you close to HD components (125/125). If warranty and money is no issue, then go with one of the excellent aftermarket engine builder-tuners and my guess is you can get the bike into the 140/140 range.

Great and accurate summary Heatwave!

[spook120]

Thank you!  Exactly the information I wanted. My dealer is pretty cool as the wrench immediately suggested a Borzilla and tts tune with stage 4 kit...with full warranty. So stage 4 it will be with a decent exhaust and tune.  Now I can get excited about getting my bike in April.  Appreciate your input.

[SemperFi64]

CVO SG 114CI 2017
Stage IV will be installed on March 21, 2017. Big bucks for just afew more CI s (5-Big ones $).   Too top that off the governor per HD will cut u off at 90. or so IM told. Let ya know more at the end of the month

[Heatwave]

CVO SG 114CI 2017
Stage IV will be installed on March 21, 2017. Big bucks for just afew more CI s (5-Big ones $).   Too top that off the governor per HD will cut u off at 90. or so IM told. Let ya know more at the end of the month

There's 2 separate engine limiters. One that limits the top speed of the bike to approximately 107mph and a second limiter that caps the rpms at 5800. If you hit either limiter the engine gets restricted to prevent higher speed or higher rpms.

[pete s.]

Got mine back this afternoon. Put about 65 miles on it tonight. Been taking it easy on it. Feels just as strong as it did before below 3000 easing through the gears so no noticeable torque loss that I can tell. I got the new high flow exhaust system also, sounds better than stock, a little deeper but no where near the D&D system I had on my 15 SGCVO, lol. Plan on having close to 500 on it by end of the weekend and I'll wring it out for Y'all and let you know.

[Rooster]

Mr Spook, I want to warn you the Boarzilla is Hella loud unless you use the quiet baffle and then it will still be louder than most.

[spook120]

Don't I know...had one on my 120 t man street glide. Drove me nuts!  But the again that doesn't take much....

[SemperFi64]

This Saturday took the cvo, SG out for a few miles (385) round trip, to the earth dam by the Black River, even stock the scooter is impressive, the cvo RK I gave up was also a good ride but missed the tunes, and fairing.
21 of the month goes in for Stage IV, and other goodies

[Lever]

Even tho  my  bike isn't a cvo
Here's a pic of my stage 4

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Lever]

Here's a picture of the bike

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Lever]

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Lever]

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[pete s.]

Just got back from Daytona, put 1850 miles on the stage 4. Averaged right at 40 mpg running 70-75. The valve train is noticeably louder than stock, especially in the stop and go heat of traffic down there.  The high flow exhaust system with the 4.5" street cannons has a nice rumble at high way speeds but way too quiet other than that. Now for the good part. This thing is a beast at wide open throttle once it hits about 3700 rpm. Its waiting on you at the 6500 rpm rev limiter to shift it. the 1-2 shift only drops from 6500 to 5000 and its back on the limiter again waiting on you to shift it again!! Its unreal how it pulls from 4000 to 6500 but sadly in 4th at about 4500 its on the speed limiter. Got to figure out how to get that off of there, don't think its possible with the street tuner. With a good tuner and the aftermarket cams coming down the pipeline these M-8's are going to be a handful to ride! Just got to get that exhaust note louder !!!

[Mr D]

Even tho  my  bike isn't a cvo

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

That's a winner!
MKE 8 CVO Roadking 

[Fullsac Performance]

Just got back from Daytona, put 1850 miles on the stage 4. Averaged right at 40 mpg running 70-75. The valve train is noticeably louder than stock, especially in the stop and go heat of traffic down there.  The high flow exhaust system with the 4.5" street cannons has a nice rumble at high way speeds but way too quiet other than that. Now for the good part. This thing is a beast at wide open throttle once it hits about 3700 rpm. Its waiting on you at the 6500 rpm rev limiter to shift it. the 1-2 shift only drops from 6500 to 5000 and its back on the limiter again waiting on you to shift it again!! Its unreal how it pulls from 4000 to 6500 but sadly in 4th at about 4500 its on the speed limiter. Got to figure out how to get that off of there, don't think its possible with the street tuner. With a good tuner and the aftermarket cams coming down the pipeline these M-8's are going to be a handful to ride! Just got to get that exhaust note louder !!!

Just to verify, is that the legal system with the cats in the mufflers? Can't imaging it being too quiet with out cats in there.

Steve@fullsac.com

[Mr D]

Just to verify, is that the legal system with the cats in the mufflers? Can't imaging it being too quiet with out cats in there.

Steve@fullsac.com

Steve, This set up here
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/high-flow-exhaust-system-with-street-cannon-mufflers

Quiet @ idle & cruise.....comes alive under throttle

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, This set up here
http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/high-flow-exhaust-system-with-street-cannon-mufflers

Quiet @ idle & cruise.....comes alive under throttle

1299.00 and requires a separate purchase of SE 4.5 endcaps. I think the aftermarket is going to be OK. 

Any dyno numbers to share?

Steve@fullsac.com

[Mr D]

1299.00 and requires a separate purchase SE 4.5 endcap. I think the aftermarket is going to be OK. 


I would recommend a Full Sac set up 

Any dyno numbers to share?

I've only heard this system....
Nice rumble, fit & finish is good too

[Lever]

That's a winner!
MKE 8 CVO Roadking 

thank you 

[Lever]

Just got back from Daytona, put 1850 miles on the stage 4. Averaged right at 40 mpg running 70-75. The valve train is noticeably louder than stock, especially in the stop and go heat of traffic down there.  The high flow exhaust system with the 4.5" street cannons has a nice rumble at high way speeds but way too quiet other than that. Now for the good part. This thing is a beast at wide open throttle once it hits about 3700 rpm. Its waiting on you at the 6500 rpm rev limiter to shift it. the 1-2 shift only drops from 6500 to 5000 and its back on the limiter again waiting on you to shift it again!! Its unreal how it pulls from 4000 to 6500 but sadly in 4th at about 4500 its on the speed limiter. Got to figure out how to get that off of there, don't think its possible with the street tuner. With a good tuner and the aftermarket cams coming down the pipeline these M-8's are going to be a handful to ride! Just got to get that exhaust note louder !!!

my valve train is very quite...   
i did notice my clutch lever is harder to pull in

[pete s.]

my valve train is very quite...   
i did notice my clutch lever is harder to pull in

I'm almost convinced it has a lifter that won't prime up completely.  Going to take it in and have it checked out.  That's one sweet road king you got there !!!

[pete s.]

1299.00 and requires a separate purchase of SE 4.5 endcaps. I think the aftermarket is going to be OK. 

Any dyno numbers to share?

Steve@fullsac.com

Wish I would have had a pull done while in Daytona, I'm curious to see what it actually puts down compared to the charts they are showing for it. Would your cores fit the street cannons ??

[Mr D]

Dealer called this morning and said my kit was in. Dropped the bike off this afternoon. Should have it back Wednesday !

Which dealer did the tune?

[Fullsac Performance]

Wish I would have had a pull done while in Daytona, I'm curious to see what it actually puts down compared to the charts they are showing for it. Would your cores fit the street cannons ??

I pulled a set of the 4.0 Street Cannons apart recently. They had a 2.0 perf core and were packed solid with a fiberglass
bag of some type. The 2.0 baffle is OK but, consuming all the air space in the muffler with packing kills TQ. No chance the CVO baffles will fit. The packing was hell to get out. While dragging it out, it sheered the internal pins off the emblem on the side. After that fell on the floor I was done playing with them. Won't be working on any more of those! Your 4.5s with cats may be different? You cant really pack material around the cat and have it live. I don't think you have a fragile emblem on the side either. If you take them apart and send me a pic of the baffle, I'll be able to give you answer on making a new one. Removing the cats will increase flow and change your tune. Something to consider.

Steve@fullsac.com

[pete s.]

Which dealer did the tune?

Bleu Bayou Harley Davidson installed the kit and I bought the Harley tuner to go with it. Pretty sure its just Harleys down load. No dyno.

[pete s.]

I pulled a set of the 4.0 Street Cannons apart recently. They had a 2.0 perf core and were packed solid with a fiberglass
bag of some type. The 2.0 baffle is OK but, consuming all the air space in the muffler with packing kills TQ. No chance the CVO baffles will fit. The packing was hell to get out. While dragging it out, it sheered the internal pins off the emblem on the side. After that fell on the floor I was done playing with them. Won't be working on any more of those! Your 4.5s with cats may be different? You cant really pack material around the cat and have it live. I don't think you have a fragile emblem on the side either. If you take them apart and send me a pic of the baffle, I'll be able to give you answer on making a new one. Removing the cats will increase flow and change your tune. Something to consider.

Steve@fullsac.com

Looks like there are 3 rivets holding the baffle in. I may give it a try and pull it out. Thanks for the info!!

[Mr D]

Looks like there are 3 rivets holding the baffle in. I may give it a try and pull it out. Thanks for the info!!

Only speaking of what I've heard, the 4" Street Cannons mounted on a cat free X pipe sounded horrible, IMO... bad tone, rappy sound, just bad

Plus, as Steve (FullSac) mentioned above the cats are in the mufflers in the SE high flow system, if you end up damaging the muffler you're going to hard pressed to find a muffler that will bolt up to the enlarged inlet of the SE headpipe... I'd leave well enough alone, do a little roadtrip, get a great tune from Steve ➡️ https://www.google.com/search?q=gmr+performance&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

My .02

[Fullsac Performance]

Looks like there are 3 rivets holding the baffle in. I may give it a try and pull it out. Thanks for the info!!

If you drill the rivits and pull it apart, I don't think you'll have any issues putting it back together. Its not a booby trap.You will need stainless rivits to re assemble. Typically the cat and baffle will slide out. Or it may be welded in just beyond the rivited part? Might have to do some weld grinding like the CVO mufflers. Tampering with OEM mufflers is fun, I've enjoyed it for years.

Steve@fullsac.com

[J.smith2780]

Contemplating the stage 4, cnc head build for my 2017 cvo and was wondering if anyone has any seat of the pants experience with this build. I am concerned with the noted loss of torque exactly where I spend most of my riding rpm range. Will have a non cat exhaust and tts tune. Thanks in advance

ge IV being a massive disappointment is right. I bought my first Harley 5 months ago. I rode for 7 days before I went back to my dealer and asked them what I can do to make this bike ride. I come fronrideing street bikes GSXR1000  and this new M8 was just gutless.  He told me do the stage 4 you won't be let down.  $3000 dollars later I get the bike back and it has way less power at take off than when I have it to them decent power for about 5 seconds until I hit the rev limiter in every gear.  Super disappointed.  I went back and told them this kit sucks.  The only difference is at about 4000-5500 Rpms, the top endis twice as loud as it was sounds like I got two sewing machines under the tank and the damn bike is running about twice as hot as it was when it was stock they told me I ain't never owned a Harley and welcome to the world of v-twin air cooled engines. So I left thinking maybe he's right.  Well a week later my lady is on the back and she can't take the heat coming up from inbetween the saddle bags and the rear fender she do tried it all.  I bring it back to the dealer they tell me I'm just like all the new Harley guys hearing noises and feeling things. I take the bine home again.  Three days later I take it out to some nice back roads where I can get on it.  First straight away I give it everything it's got and boy is it getting hot. I come into the next straight away and I roll onto the throttle and I lose all power I can't get the bike above 20 mph but I got no place to pull over on the levy rodes.  So I gotta ride it about 1.5mimes to where I can pull over safely.  When I get to that spot and shut her down it is what I think overheating. She is crackling and I can just smell burnt metal or catalytic converter and I can't even get with a foot of the bike without feeling like I'm getting burned.  i check the oil and it's almost dry.  I'm flipping out because I have 600 miles on it and I just destroyed my bike I'm thinking. I get it towed home and immedty go three harts of oil to put in it I call Harley the next day telling them their bike is chit what kind of machine burns up all its oil in 500 miles gives no low oil warning and just lets the rider over heat the bike to 570 degrees an hour after the incident and getting towed home when I hit the cylinders with a laser temp reader.  They said they would come pick it up.  Next day they do and they two hours after it gets their I get a phone call from my Service guy. He says jason you over filled the oil man.  You can't ride around with so much oil when we unscrew the cap it comes out.  I told him he's full of crap. I know how to read a damn dip stick. Well longer story short. My bine experienced the stage 4 sumping issue which caused the overheating and the lack of oil in the oil tank. This was exactly 6 days before Harley issued the official bullitin on the issue.  I told them I wasn't accepting the bine back after hitting 570 degrees and that prob  scorched the rings burned up the catalytic converter and who knows what else.  If it was 570 an hour after the initial over heat and prob 7-800 degrees right after as I was pulling over  which by the way didn't even give me a dash light or a low oil light or anything at all. They assured me the bike was not damaged and it could handle up 900 degrees with no damage. Well a bunch of phone calls to the MoCo and 6 days later my service guy calls me and says dude your never going to believe this but Harley released an official TBO and your bike is one of the bikes. He said the stock oil pump is not powerful enough to push oil through the stage four build. It gets trapped in the crankcase I believe and the bine then can't cool its self down.  Well you could imagine I was very upset because I had been there three times already telling them the bike is way hot and burning mine and my wife's hamstrings and you guys told me in just a newbie to the Harley world.  He actually apologized for blowing me off the last 3 times.  They ended up upgrading the oil pump to a high flow one. Harley also cleared 14 hours I believe it was to do a 4th tear down of the top end and inspect everything to ensure nothing was damaged.  5 days later he called and said nothing wrong with the bike we upgraded the pump and nothing was damaged.  My service guy then said listen why don't you let me send your bike out to a turner and get rid of this garbage SE street tuner and put on TTS master tune.  They offered I buy the tuner they will pay for the labor to the tuner for the inconvenience of bringing my bike three times 1.5 hours each way and then coming back to pick up 4 days later to be told there wasn't a problem and I'm just a newbie. I accepted their offer but  I said won't that ruin my warranty.  He said you don't worry about that your gonna keep the SE street tuner and anything happens we will flash it back to ensure nobody from the MoCo can attempt to void the warranty. 

[J.smith2780]

Not sure if I should start another thread about this, but I wonder what that 64mm throttle body is going to do to overall mileage if the bike is to be used as a touring platform.  One would hate to drop the mileage to the low 30's like it was on my 120 with a 48mm flatslide Mikuni.  Should be interesting when people start putting some miles on these builds.

On the 2017 m8 road glide I went from about 290 to tank and once the stage 4 went on I can get above 205 this is with the 64 TB

[J.smith2780]

Contemplating the stage 4, cnc head build for my 2017 cvo and was wondering if anyone has any seat of the pants experience with this build. I am concerned with the noted loss of torque exactly where I spend most of my riding rpm range. Will have a non cat exhaust and tts tune. Thanks in advance

So I know this has been an extremely long post but I wanted to put my Harley M8 stage 4 horror story out there for others to read. So anyhow I got my bine back fro the tuner and it does run better with better response and smoother ride but it still sucks under about 3200 rpms which is where I want to ride to get the best gas mileage.  I mean it lugs at 2100 rpms in all six gears.  I'm getting only 180 miles to tank if I'm lucky. My Dyno print out reads 117hp and 109tq after the TTS mastertune.  Before the TTS and with the SE street tuner it was 109hp and 101tq.  But it just has no balls at all unless your blazing through your fuel and running around just under the rev limiter.  When my lady is the back it's a Constant shifting game unless again I am riding around the 3500-4000 rpms.  Lot of good info on hear and great builds.  I think I'm gonna try the 447 cam fullsac was taking about.  I did one question though any answers would be great or any input. What are your guys take or opinion on the overheating to in gonna guess 7-800 degrees and Harley saying nothing damaged at all. They did revenge replace the rings. I'm mean how much wear did I put on the motor riding around with the oil pump not pumping the oil correctly for the first 600 miles which is the break in period. So it would seem not good for the motor at all and probrbaly goona cause problems earlier on.  Also any of your guys with he stage 4 kits are your top ends loud like sewing Machines you can hear over the screaming eagle slips ons?

[fastfreddy]

 check this  2017 stage 4 sumping https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=112589.0