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[TN]

Do what Jerry says and document everything.


Best of luck harleytacticalnut


TN

[harleytacticalnut]

Luckily I did get a video of the 2-quarts that drained out. I was able to drop the bike off at the local dealer, showed them the video and they were floored.
Before I arrived at the dealer I called the phone number that was provided to me by help on this forum.
I quickly let them know that I have been watching this from a far on several forums and that I was sold this kit when harley knows they are having major issues with these stage 4 kits as it is a design problem with something.
I explained that I drank their kool-aid, paid for this upgrade with very hard earned cash money, not knowing they were having such major problems and that I am in no way shape or form interested in being a guinea pig going thru parts replacement, or having 3-4 engine swaps.
 I explained I would accept a new engine to get my bike to original factory standards and to refund me for the stage 4 kit and all parts and pieces and labor involved.
I explained the bike is at the dealer right now and if they don't agree then I will leave it there and start working on a class action suit if needed because they are cashing in on these upgrade kits knowing they are installing them in bikes that will then cause severe engine damage either now or down the road when the bikes are out of warranty and then the owner is buying a new $10,000 motor because of Harley's lack of true R&D for these kits.
I guess time will tell now. This is my second 17 CVO streetglide this year and am very upset with how harley keeps letting these kits get installed knowing there is a major problem.
I hope they step up a do what's right and correct the wrong they are doing before it taints the entire brand.

[grc]

The brand has been tainted for a long time, and this is far from the first time they have knowingly sold defective product.  I was hoping new management would change the corporate mindset and start doing the right things, but history has taught me to hope for the best but expect the worst.  They have a very long way to go before they could convince me things have really changed.

Good luck, and I hope they do right by you.

Jerry

[Heatwave]

Luckily I did get a video of the 2-quarts that drained out. I was able to drop the bike off at the local dealer, showed them the video and they were floored.
Before I arrived at the dealer I called the phone number that was provided to me by help on this forum.
I quickly let them know that I have been watching this from a far on several forums and that I was sold this kit when harley knows they are having major issues with these stage 4 kits as it is a design problem with something.
I explained that I drank their kool-aid, paid for this upgrade with very hard earned cash money, not knowing they were having such major problems and that I am in no way shape or form interested in being a guinea pig going thru parts replacement, or having 3-4 engine swaps.
 I explained I would accept a new engine to get my bike to original factory standards and to refund me for the stage 4 kit and all parts and pieces and labor involved.
I explained the bike is at the dealer right now and if they don't agree then I will leave it there and start working on a class action suit if needed because they are cashing in on these upgrade kits knowing they are installing them in bikes that will then cause severe engine damage either now or down the road when the bikes are out of warranty and then the owner is buying a new $10,000 motor because of Harley's lack of true R&D for these kits.
I guess time will tell now. This is my second 17 CVO streetglide this year and am very upset with how harley keeps letting these kits get installed knowing there is a major problem.
I hope they step up a do what's right and correct the wrong they are doing before it taints the entire brand.

Very sad. I was REALLY hoping this sumping issue was limited to a very few bikes of which I drew the unlucky straw that burned through 3 engines. But each day I see more guys posting their sumping engine failures. I'm starting to believe those that haven't had a failure with a stage 3/4 M8 engine are riding on borrowed time. I truly hope I'm wrong but the evidence is building that the design failure could be far more prevalent than anyone fully appreciates yet.

[harleytacticalnut]

Heatwave
I agree 100%. I knew something was happening to my bike but couldn't figure it out. I then ran across your posts.   
Thanks bro
I also believe my bike was doing it from day one as well but I can't prove it.
I did notice something specific yesterday when I was riding.
I installed Dakota digital gauges on my cvo and was watching my oil temp while riding. It was steady from 180-190 degrees most of the time.
 Then all of a sudden I noticed a lot more heat at my feet and legs and watched the engine oil temp rise to 200-210. Once she hit 210 the bike started stumping very noticeably.
Bike was running really hot for some reason and was like dragging a boat anchor.
I really don't believe this is a stage 4 problem. I think it is a different problem and when harley adds a stage 4 kit that will add a little more compression and is letting the engine open up more versus stock causing it to be much more noticeable.
This really sucks cause I got my annual tail of the dragon, Devil's Triangle, moonshiner's hill run next month.

[harleytacticalnut]

Thanks JERRY

[Heatwave]

I just got word that a friend of mine with a '17 CVO SG and Stage 4 kit was just called this evening by his dealer to bring the bike in for an oil pump change. Is this the start of a "quiet" recall by the MoCo on all M8s with stage 3 or 4 kits??

[grc]

I just got word that a friend of mine with a '17 CVO SG and Stage 4 kit was just called this evening by his dealer to bring the bike in for an oil pump change. Is this the start of a "quiet" recall by the MoCo on all M8s with stage 3 or 4 kits??

It would be like H-D to try to keep it on the QT.  Did this friend previously complain to this dealer, or did he get this call strictly out of the blue?

The auto industry has had it's "secret" warranties and programs and been nailed by the government and the legal profession in the past.  I hope Harley doesn't think it can get away with a selective and secret program on this issue.  These days it's harder to keep such things secret, thanks to the internet and forums like this one.

Jerry

[harleytacticalnut]

IDK because my dealer claims he called them a week or so ago and they told him if he can't duplicate the problem then they couldn't authorize any work period.
Someone was playing hardball with me and he claimed it was Harley today when I brought the bike to him with the video.
None the less I am not interested in a part replacement when my engine has run several times that low on oil. They will be fighting an uphill battle trying to part and piece these together for a temporary fix until they can get the bikes out of warranty with only one more riding season after this one.
I for one will not sit idle much longer.
I am very anxious to see how they respond.
The customer service rep wasn't the nicest when I explained to her the major problems.

[Heatwave]

It would be like H-D to try to keep it on the QT.  Did this friend previously complain to this dealer, or did he get this call strictly out of the blue?

The auto industry has had it's "secret" warranties and programs and been nailed by the government and the legal profession in the past.  I hope Harley doesn't think it can get away with a selective and secret program on this issue.  These days it's harder to keep such things secret, thanks to the internet and forums like this one.

Jerry

No, he never exoressed any issues with the bike but he's a very infrequent rider. Its a smart move to start getting these M8s with Stage 3/4 into the shop for an oil pump change before the engine loses a lifter or top end from excess heat caused by sumping.

[mark]

We're back to the oil pump change-out "solution"...but the part number is the same?  Is the MoCo just swapping an original oil pump for another original pump?  If so, it would appear they're limping the M-8 along for two years to escape the warranty period.  Hopefully I'm wrong, but... 

[sadunbar]

We're back to the oil pump change-out "solution"...but the part number is the same?  Is the MoCo just swapping an original oil pump for another original pump?  If so, it would appear they're limping the M-8 along for two years to escape the warranty period.  Hopefully I'm wrong, but...

Past history would indicate you are not wrong...   

[grc]

In theory, they did issue different part numbers according to the service bulletin M-1450 that was floating around.  Read that bulletin and then I'd love someone to explain to me why no other engine, from Harley or anyone else I know of, requires a different oil pump for slightly larger displacement versions of the same engine.  The only valid reason I know of for having two different part numbers is for the difference between the water cooled engines and the oil cooled engines. This has all the earmarks of another Harley fiasco, brought to you by the "no engineering talent and don't want to spend the money to fix the REAL problem" MoCo.

Jerry

[mark]

Been following this thread and I'm confused by the bulletin posted by Jerry.  It seems there are four parts numbers for oil pumps.  Two original pumps and two new pumps for stage 3 and 4 builds.  Is that right? 

[grc]

Been following this thread and I'm confused by the bulletin posted by Jerry.  It seems there are four parts numbers for oil pumps.  Two original pumps and two new pumps for stage 3 and 4 builds.  Is that right?

So far that's right, but considering the fact they've had failures with the "updated" part numbers I guess we will be seeing a couple more in the near future.  Total BS.

The reason for having two different versions (not four or six) is due to differences in the designs for water cooled models versus oil cooled models.  That I can understand.  But having additional part numbers for modified pumps to supposedly fix a sumping problem on slightly larger displacement versions of the same engines is ridiculous.  That has never been the case in previous years, with the same pumps working just fine in everything from a stock TC88/TC96 to a CVO110 and aftermarket 124's.  There is obviously a problem, but I'm convinced H-D hasn't got a clue what is really causing it (or they do and don't want to pay to fix it properly).

JMHO - Jerry