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[harleytacticalnut]

I don't know what harley is up to, but I bet everyone will be enlightened when they have sold most of the MY17 CVO bikes. And the focus will then be on the MY18.
Great diversion tactic.
They can't afford a major recall on the engines or kits and then put pressure on the remaining inventory of MY17 CVO still on the dealers floor. Especially since this is imploding on the new release of the MY18.
They then add the troublesome design to the MY18 bike but then removes the liquid cooling side of the engine which they were touting to be the next best thing.
There sure seems to be a lot of very deceptive meetings behind closed doors to keep this all hush , hush from the consumers it seems to me.
They could be facing a devastating economic impact from this if they continue to have this kind of business model moving forward.
I have contacted Harley 4 times and still no great response from them or the dealer as of yet and my bike is still there.
Consumers affairs was supposed to contact the dealer and send a rep out but I have heard nothing yet.
Bro I am beginning to lose it now.
I am trying to maintain my patience because my local dealer has lost the service manager who was supposed to verify from HD any issues with stage 4 before we proceeded- obviously he didn't,  sales manager, general manager, finance manager all within the last few weeks and I am stuck with a POS right now with no one to get a definitive answer from on this.
Shady paperwork trails, I put 12k straight up on my bike in accessories to blacken it out from front to back as well as the stage 4 kit. And I am left with a bike that I have ridden 12-15 times since owning it on 6/3/2017 and it has sumped 6 of those times.
And now I have a very shifty situation with my local installing dealer.
I am going to call them Monday again for the 5th time and give them an ultimatum that if I do not hear from someone from corporate by this coming Wednesday I will be contacting some good ole boys to but some heat on them to get my answers that I am looking for.
I guess time will tell.
The worst thing is the weather is finally beautiful here in VA and I and not riding.
SUCKS BRO

[BigLew55]

For the record, the 2018 FLHTKSE, FLHTK, FLHTKL, and the tri-glide are still Twin-Cooled using water-based coolant.

The FLHXSE switched from Twin-Cooled to using oil in the heads to augment the air cooling, probably to accommodate those who prefer to ride without the lowers.

[harleytacticalnut]

Seems to me they shouldn't be installing a new 117" engine on new bikes when they can't be honest and upfront about the problem with the 114" with stage 4 upgrade they sold us.
To me they should either replace every 114" with a stage 4 kit already installed that is sumping to the new 117" factory engine at no cost. Period.
Or replace the existing troublesome motor with a factory fresh 114" to get our bikes back to the factory engine and refund us our investment of the stage 4 kit as well as the labor we paid to install it.
This is all Harley's fault because they didn't do enough R& D on their stage 4 kit knowing that this kit is an upper rpm engine mod anyway and that most guys doing this upgrade doesn't just putt around town. We ride them.
Had they actually tested these engines with the stage 4 kit on the bikes and ridden them as they were designed to be ridden then they would have easily caught this problem.
Our maybe they did and it was so far past production dates that they went ahead with and rolled with it. 
Or I believe the would gamble with the fact that there are very low odds that a lawsuit or class action would be formed, small people vs corporate giant

[fastfreddy]

dosent  the stage 4 kit come with heads, and the crank case breaths thru the heads? may be its an issue with the heads? you get those big pistons moving and the scavenge side of the oil pump cant over come crank case pressure/vacume    any body

[spook120]

I guess I am not much of a cloak and dagger type.  The engineers screwed the pooch and didn't do their homework. Now they are scrambling to make it right the way huge conglomerates do... slowly and as cheaply as possible.  Take a look at BMW...my 2017 GSA is under a rather hushed recall as the front forks might come loose from the triple tree.  If that happens at 85MPH you go boom rather harshly. But BMW, like HD are doing what they can to fix it albeit in a rather half a** way...  And if you look on the BMW forums the attitude and accusations are the same...just a different brand.  I would hate to think that HD or BMW are doing what the tobacco company or asbestos folks did, but hey what do I know. The bottom line on this whole mess is that we as consumers have the final vote.  Sell the bloody thing and move on if you have no faith in HD as a product or company.  You have that choice.  Expecting HD to do the buy back or engine replacement is not going to happen unless the government is going to tell them they have to.  Simple as that...and with them being cozy with the current administration that most likely will not happen. Where is Ralph Nader when you need him!  Done with my mini rant. Flame away and ride safe.

[OBB]

I don't know what harley is up to, but I bet everyone will be enlightened when they have sold most of the MY17 CVO bikes. And the focus will then be on the MY18.
Great diversion tactic.
They can't afford a major recall on the engines or kits and then put pressure on the remaining inventory of MY17 CVO still on the dealers floor. Especially since this is imploding on the new release of the MY18.
They then add the troublesome design to the MY18 bike but then removes the liquid cooling side of the engine which they were touting to be the next best thing.
There sure seems to be a lot of very deceptive meetings behind closed doors to keep this all hush , hush from the consumers it seems to me.
They could be facing a devastating economic impact from this if they continue to have this kind of business model moving forward.
I have contacted Harley 4 times and still no great response from them or the dealer as of yet and my bike is still there.
Consumers affairs was supposed to contact the dealer and send a rep out but I have heard nothing yet.
Bro I am beginning to lose it now.
I am trying to maintain my patience because my local dealer has lost the service manager who was supposed to verify from HD any issues with stage 4 before we proceeded- obviously he didn't,  sales manager, general manager, finance manager all within the last few weeks and I am stuck with a POS right now with no one to get a definitive answer from on this.
Shady paperwork trails, I put 12k straight up on my bike in accessories to blacken it out from front to back as well as the stage 4 kit. And I am left with a bike that I have ridden 12-15 times since owning it on 6/3/2017 and it has sumped 6 of those times.
And now I have a very shifty situation with my local installing dealer.
I am going to call them Monday again for the 5th time and give them an ultimatum that if I do not hear from someone from corporate by this coming Wednesday I will be contacting some good ole boys to but some heat on them to get my answers that I am looking for.
I guess time will tell.
The worst thing is the weather is finally beautiful here in VA and I and not riding.
SUCKS BRO

You're not using the same dealer as Norseman in Va are you? Sounds like the same runaround he's been getting.

[Heatwave]

Quick update. Took my 2017 CVO Limited with its 3rd engine out for a good long ride today. It now has several hundred miles and I figured it was time to see if this latest engine has any sumping issues. Its still in stock 114 form. I believe HD has definitely figured something out in producing these latest M8 engines. The engine is FAR more powerful than the previous 2. There was nothing I could do on the highway or in the twisties to induce a sumping situation causing power loss. The bike handled the heat extremely well and even though the EITMS kicked on occasionally, there was never any power loss. None. In fact I'd say the engine is feeling stronger as it breaks in.

Of course I'm still in stock mode but even in stock mode this engine feels more powerful than the previous stock 114 engines and far more powerful than the stage 4 after it started sumping. Very pleased and this is the way this engine should have felt from the day I took delivery.

Hopefully this bodes well for the stage 4 upgrade being done this week. Dealer rep is supposedly hand delivering an upgraded oil pump to go with the stage 4 kit install. I certainly hope that the HD engineers have made some serious progress in redesigning their oil pump. Based on this latest new engine, I'm feeling optimistic. Hopefully they don't let me down. This really is a wonderful motorcycle and I hope it can now reach the potential that the HD engineers intended and that I paid for.

[Twolanerider]

Quick update. Took my 2017 CVO Limited with its 3rd engine out for a good long ride today. It now has several hundred miles and I figured it was time to see if this latest engine has any sumping issues. Its still in stock 114 form. I believe HD has definitely figured something out in producing these latest M8 engines. The engine is FAR more powerful than the previous 2. There was nothing I could do on the highway or in the twisties to induce a sumping situation causing power loss. The bike handled the heat extremely well and even though the EITMS kicked on occasionally, there was never any power loss. None. In fact I'd say the engine is feeling stronger as it breaks in.

Of course I'm still in stock mode but even in stock mode this engine feels more powerful than the previous stock 114 engines and far more powerful than the stage 4 after it started sumping. Very pleased and this is the way this engine should have felt from the day I took delivery.

Hopefully this bodes well for the stage 4 upgrade being done this week. Dealer rep is supposedly hand delivering an upgraded oil pump to go with the stage 4 kit install. I certainly hope that the HD engineers have made some serious progress in redesigning their oil pump. Based on this latest new engine, I'm feeling optimistic. Hopefully they don't let me down. This really is a wonderful motorcycle and I hope it can now reach the potential that the HD engineers intended and that I paid for.

Running that well and producing that many smiles currently it has to almost make you hesitant to let them "upgrade" it....

[Heatwave]

Running that well and producing that many smiles currently it has to almost make you hesitant to let them "upgrade" it....

True but I paid for a stage 4 engine. They would give me dealer credit for the Stage 4 kit and tuner but not the labor. And I don't want thousands of $s sitting in credit at a dealer. I would much rather be actually "sitting" on the performance I originally paid for.

[harleytacticalnut]

Well said HEATWAVE. I hope I can be saying the same in the near future.

[Twolanerider]

True but I paid for a stage 4 engine. They would give me dealer credit for the Stage 4 kit and tuner but not the labor. And I don't want thousands of $s sitting in credit at a dealer. I would much rather be actually "sitting" on the performance I originally paid for.

 

[Heatwave]

Well said HEATWAVE. I hope I can be saying the same in the near future.

Then again, it might be worth sitting in stock form for abit if HD launchs a stage 4 kit for the 2018 CVOs. Might include cylinders and pistons that take the bike to a 120 M8 since they are already at 117"!!!

[Heatwave]

Well I've decided to hang in there for awhile with my new (3rd engine) stock 114 in my 2017 CVO Limited instead of upgrading to a 117 stage 4 for now. "A little birdie" dropped a hint that there might be a new "LARGER" Stage 4 kit to accommodate the 2018 CVO Limiteds that come with 117s from the factory. My guess is that the new Stage 3 & 4 kits for CVOs will likely be an M8 120ci (which of course will become the standard CVO engine down the road).

Based on that thinking, I'm going to hold off on upgrading until the new kits are released for the 2018 CVOs. WTH, I've gambled so far with a new engine design, I might as roll the dice again if there's a possibility of getting a new 120 stage 4 at no additional cost. After a 200 mile ride yesterday on the new 114 engine, it really is a powerful joy to ride. Hopefully the M8 launch pains have been corrected because this new engine really will be the standard for V-twin motorcycle engines if they can straighten out the sumping issues.

[harleytacticalnut]

Well I am set to meet the harley rep tomorrow. He wants to ride my bike. Which is ok by me, however like my mechanic said he couldn't get it to sump according to the bulletin procedure. So I hope he is ready to ride the bike long enough and hard enough to get it to sump. I am truely excited to see how Harley tries to handle this one. I want to see if they go with the approach of working thru this the right way, or will they try to B/S me and make it my problem to be stuck with which I am having no parts of.

[spook120]

It is interesting that my dealer as stated above actually solicited my bike for oil pump upgrade and complete check to insure no scoring or other related issues to oil management. According to the wrench that is per HD instruction. In my case I did not report any issues with the bike pre dealer contact.  If HD is actually dealing with this issue proactively I would think there would not be a problem with the Rep denying service. Perhaps it just the dealer from which  I have purchased multiple bikes assuring I am a happy camper.  Who knows!