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Author Topic: 2018  (Read 3173 times)

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DesertHOG

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Re: 2018
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2017, 08:24:41 PM »

The irony of all of this is when customers buy these new CVO's some will wind up on this site.
Everyone will say "Oh what a beautiful bike."
Happens every year.
I love my Harley's and hope for the best to those that buy an 18.
For someone to spend $42K+ to get a CVO they deserve what they get!

SBB



Scratching my head trying to get your meaning. Doesn't necessarily sound like a good thing but ????
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2017, 10:10:36 PM »

Thanks for posting up the pics! Looks like there is a fair amount of flake in there and out in the sun, it's quite a bit lighter in color.
Exactly, however it's my first CVO and also the first vehicle I have with such a kind of paint, I never had anything that can be compared to that. It reminds me of long time friends that had an art gallery and were doing pictures of contemporary ceramics, some of them with shiny surfaces: it was very difficult for them to get pictures reflecting what was in front of our eyes. Anyway this is, at least in my 'cvo-newbie' condition, a high quality paint job.

Sorry for the digression but I can't refrain writing about the bike itself: it is a real pleasure to ride. The engine sound is very quiet, especially during break in, it starts to give a bit more sound when reaching the 3500 limit not to cross according to the manual but it is still very quiet. However I was never looking for loud pipes, I can do 1000km in a day, I have maybe still a couple of decades yet before starting to lose my hearing, and I will always prefer "real" music instead of an engine sound.

With hundreds of watts of speakers, I can always warn the cagers with music, I don't need loud pipes for this. At last, concerning sound, for a few months I returned living in a city (I just spent 15 years in the countryside), and during the summer season, Cannes attracts a lot of tourists, many of them with luxury sport cars or, of course, HD or sport bikes modified in a way or in another. When at 3:00 am an a**hole tries to impress his girl friend by pushing on the engine in a city street, or by revving a bit at a traffic light, we are probably hundreds to be woken up. I won't risk doing it myself ever again.

Compared to my previous 2013 FLHTK, the cycling part of the bike has improved a lot. I begin to retrieve sensations I had with one of the best bike I ever had, the R1100RT: sharp cornering and a twin engine always available. The FLHTK was much more heavier to rock from one side to the other. Slaloming between cars in slow motion traffic still require some physical work, but less than with the FLHTK. It is a bit early yet but I already feel that soon I will leave again t-max scooters far behind ;-)

The remote controlled locking mechanism of the saddles and top case is nice, like the small LED lights that turn on when you switch the bike off. However I can't believe that a 42K euro bike allows anyone to access to the fuel tank! I will probably find a cap with a lock...

Boom Audio ergonomics aren't perfect. I was so used to the old HK that I take some time to build new habits. The guy that decided to forbid accessing a keyboard to enter navigation data while riding, but to authorize its use, or the use of something similarly complex to locate a music title should take medications.

I miss oil temp info (I had the air temp gauge replaced by the oil temp). I don't understand why I can't see on BA what I got on my PV. During long rides, it is the kind of stupid gadget that helps passing time. TPMS should show its usefulness when sometimes I wonder if a loss of traction come from the road of from tire pressure.

That's my first HD water cooled. What a difference on a hot day in a city! However the way the vents are placed in the lower fairings push hot air on the feet when these rest on highway pegs. I didn't use these pegs more than a couple of minutes because of the break in requirements, maybe my position wasn't optimal, I'll try again later.

The backrest doesn't have the option to allow changing its inclination while riding. I'll see if it can be added. IMHO it should be factory fitted on a CVO...

Overall I'm extremely happy with the bike. I avoid thinking about the price ;-) but I'm lucky, in my case it is a corporate vehicle :-).

I've read that HD has lowered the volume of CVO they manufacture, I don't know if it is true, but if yes, then probably they are following the same track than luxury brands like Channel, LVMH, etc: limiting the volume insures to customers that the chance for one of them to meet another person with the same product is very low. And thus pricing can be based also on rarity.. I have the first one in France and I was able to look at the planning for the next months, there is about 5 more planned for whole France until the next round of CVO in summer 2018. My paint job is a rare one :-)

(End of digression!)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:34:48 PM by bpf »
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Heatwave

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Re: 2018
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2017, 10:36:03 PM »

Exactly, however it's my first CVO and also the first vehicle I have with such a kind of paint, I never had anything that can be compared to that. It reminds me of long time friends that had an art gallery and were doing pictures of contemporary ceramics, some of them with shiny surfaces: it was very difficult for them to get pictures reflecting what was in front of our eyes. Anyway this is, at least in my 'cvo-newbie' condition, a high quality paint job.

Sorry for the digression but I can't refrain writing about the bike itself: it is a real pleasure to ride. The engine sound is very quiet, especially during break in, it starts to give a bit more sound when reaching the 3500 limit not to cross according to the manual but it is still very quiet. However I was never looking for loud pipes, I can do 1000km in a day, I have maybe still a couple of decades yet before starting to lose my hearing, and I will always prefer "real" music instead of an engine sound.

With hundreds of watts of speakers, I can always warn the cagers with music, I don't need loud pipes for this. At last, concerning sound, for a few months I returned living in a city (I just spent 15 years in the countryside), and during the summer season, Cannes attracts a lot of tourists, many of them with luxury sport cars or, of course, HD or sport bikes modified in a way or in another. When at 3:00 am an a**hole tries to impress his girl friend by pushing on the engine in a city street, or by revving a bit at a traffic light, we are probably hundreds to be woken up. I won't risk doing it myself ever again.

Compared to my previous 2013 FLHTK, the cycling part of the bike has improved a lot. I begin to retrieve sensations I had with one of the best bike I ever had, the R1100RT: sharp cornering and a twin engine always available. The FLHTK was much more heavier to rock from one side to the other. Slaloming between cars in slow motion traffic still require some physical work, but less than with the FLHTK. It is a bit early yet but I already feel that soon I will leave again t-max scooters far behind ;-)

The remote controlled locking mechanism of the saddles and top case is nice, like the small LED lights that turn on when you switch the bike off. However I can't believe that a 42K euro bike allows anyone to access to the fuel tank! I will probably find a cap with a lock...

Boom Audio ergonomics aren't perfect. I was so used to the old HK that I take some time to build new habits. The guy that decided to forbid accessing a keyboard to enter navigation data while riding, but to authorize its use, or the use of something similarly complex to locate a music title should take medications.

I miss oil temp info (I had the air temp gauge replaced by the oil temp). I don't understand why I can't see on BA what I got on my PV. During long rides, it is the kind of stupid gadget that helps passing time. TPMS should show its usefulness when sometimes I wonder if a loss of traction come from the road of from tire pressure.

That's my first HD water cooled. What a difference on a hot day in a city! However the way the vents are placed in the lower fairings push hot air on the feet when these rest on highway pegs. I didn't use these pegs more than a couple of minutes because of the break in requirements, maybe my position wasn't optimal, I'll try again later.

The backrest doesn't have the option to allow changing its inclination while riding. I'll see if it can be added. IMHO it should be factory fitted on a CVO...

Overall I'm extremely happy with the bike. I avoid thinking about the price ;-) but I'm lucky, in my case it is a corporate vehicle :-).

I've read that HD has lowered the volume of CVO they manufacture, I don't know if it is true, but if yes, then probably they are following the same track than luxury brands like Channel, LVMH, etc: limiting the volume insures to customers that the chance for one of them to meet another person with the same product is very low. And thus pricing can be based also on rarity.. I have the first one in France and I was able to look at the planning for the next months, there is about 5 more planned for whole France until the next round of CVO in summer 2018. My paint job is a rare one :-)

(End of digression!)

Nice writeup and congratulations on your 2018 CVO Limited. I believe your assessment of the paint is exactly what HD was targeting. European tastes will probably find this year's CVOs more attractive than many American CVO buyers. Most Europeans prefer less chrome, more black and far more subtle paint colors and schemes than American CVO buyers. Personally I find the 2018 CVO colors, black out and paint fading, far too subtle and to be honest somewhat boring compared to past years of CVOs. From 10 ft away the '18 CVO Limiteds look like just another Ultra Limited. 2016 HD sales growth in Euro were far better than in the US. I won't ge surprised if that trend continues as HD appears to be looking to attract a larger global marketshare by catering to their tastes even if that means losing some American buyers.

It appears that HD hit the mark given your positive writeup. Thats a good thing for ALL Harley riders. I wish you many enjoyable miles on your new bike.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:41:44 PM by Heatwave »
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2017, 01:19:52 AM »

Nice writeup and congratulations on your 2018 CVO Limited. I believe your assessment of the paint is exactly what HD was targeting. European tastes will probably find this year's CVOs more attractive than many American CVO buyers. Most Europeans prefer less chrome, more black and far more subtle paint colors and schemes than American CVO buyers. Personally I find the 2018 CVO colors, black out and paint fading, far too subtle and to be honest somewhat boring compared to past years of CVOs. From 10 ft away the '18 CVO Limiteds look like just another Ultra Limited. 2016 HD sales growth in Euro were far better than in the US. I won't ge surprised if that trend continues as HD appears to be looking to attract a larger global marketshare by catering to their tastes even if that means losing some American buyers.

It appears that HD hit the mark given your positive writeup. Thats a good thing for ALL Harley riders. I wish you many enjoyable miles on your new bike.

I also have the feeling that the 18' CVOs paint jobs feel 'less American' than the previous ones but maybe HD is also targeting a different audience even in the USA, for instance BMW & Goldwing riders.

(I would like also to see for real the 'gunship' gray on the RG CVO, I suspect that it has characteristics similar to the pain job of my ride.)

IMHO the 'black earth fade' color could fit well to a Porsche car. Someone wrote this idea on an other forum and I find it spot on. The USA represents about 25% of the worldwide sales of Porsche...

The mix of old style looking of the HD fairings, modernized engine and blacked out colors can also be considered to go into that direction if you look at what you get when you want to buy a Porsche that looks like a Porsche.

Whatever the taste for colors, it is clearly obvious that pictures can't show how are the bikes for real. Usually the first target for an OEM is to have you to visit a dealership: with the 18' color line-up you have no other choice than to go to see by yourselves. It is a risk for the OEM, but as word of mouth is getting in that direction even on the forums, HD design team has probably succeeded.

At last fashion, by definition, is in constant evolution. Tastes change over time. 20 years ago, nearly no one had tattoos, piercings and HD bikes were often considered to be reserved to, hu.., specific persons. (at least in Europe ;-) ). Nowadays you can have tattoos,piercings, a HD bike, and tidy up your bike wear before entering a financial meeting in a Fortune 500 company without having other persons attending the meeting being afraid that they will be robbed or gunned down in the next few seconds. (traditions get lost:-))

As you wrote, It is also logical that HD shift its product line up towards where it expects to see growth. It doesn't forbid a buyer to change the bike according to its own taste. (once at my local dealership a guy had a CVO repainted in black...)
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Heatwave

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Re: 2018
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2017, 07:27:35 AM »

I also have the feeling that the 18' CVOs paint jobs feel 'less American' than the previous ones but maybe HD is also targeting a different audience even in the USA, for instance BMW & Goldwing riders.

(I would like also to see for real the 'gunship' gray on the RG CVO, I suspect that it has characteristics similar to the pain job of my ride.)

IMHO the 'black earth fade' color could fit well to a Porsche car. Someone wrote this idea on an other forum and I find it spot on. The USA represents about 25% of the worldwide sales of Porsche...

The mix of old style looking of the HD fairings, modernized engine and blacked out colors can also be considered to go into that direction if you look at what you get when you want to buy a Porsche that looks like a Porsche.

Whatever the taste for colors, it is clearly obvious that pictures can't show how are the bikes for real. Usually the first target for an OEM is to have you to visit a dealership: with the 18' color line-up you have no other choice than to go to see by yourselves. It is a risk for the OEM, but as word of mouth is getting in that direction even on the forums, HD design team has probably succeeded.

At last fashion, by definition, is in constant evolution. Tastes change over time. 20 years ago, nearly no one had tattoos, piercings and HD bikes were often considered to be reserved to, hu.., specific persons. (at least in Europe ;-) ). Nowadays you can have tattoos,piercings, a HD bike, and tidy up your bike wear before entering a financial meeting in a Fortune 500 company without having other persons attending the meeting being afraid that they will be robbed or gunned down in the next few seconds. (traditions get lost:-))

As you wrote, It is also logical that HD shift its product line up towards where it expects to see growth. It doesn't forbid a buyer to change the bike according to its own taste. (once at my local dealership a guy had a CVO repainted in black...)

HD will know if their "new direction in tastes" and higher prices, pays off in short order. By this time next year they will know if this strategy has paid off. If unit sales continue their slide downwards and overall margins also decline, HD will need to reconsider their entire strategy. OTOH if they reverse current sales and margin declines, then Wall Street will be happy and we'll see more of this "styling" to come. Time will tell in short order since stockholders aren't known for being patient.
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2017, 08:08:55 AM »

HD will know if their "new direction in tastes" and higher prices, pays off in short order. By this time next year they will know if this strategy has paid off. If unit sales continue their slide downwards and overall margins also decline, HD will need to reconsider their entire strategy. OTOH if they reverse current sales and margin declines, then Wall Street will be happy and we'll see more of this "styling" to come. Time will tell in short order since stockholders aren't known for being patient.
The death of Victory should also help HD. I understand that the sales of used HD bikes are good, even if that doesn't bring short term profit, it also excellent news for the brand name in the long run.

Today I gave the bike my first hand wash. The paint is very hard to describe, its color oscillates between light gray to black, sometimes very dark green (but nature is green where I'm, so go figure if it has an influence...). When you take a picture of it, the result is always different from what you perceived with your own eyes. It should be attractive to women that love so much some mystery and secrecy where it is not expected  ::)

Really if you have a chance to see it by yourself when it is parked outside, do it. And if possible at different hours of the day.
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2017, 03:29:47 PM »

I finished the break in Sunday afternoon, it was done by the book, I always did so and had fine bikes, I push them hard after break in, not before. So here are a few lines describing what I feel regarding this 18' CVO...

The stock 117 is a nice engine with a linear acceleration as soon as it gets hot. Even a small throttle opening with the engine not at correct temp will show that the engine isn't ready yet, the stock ECU map must be very lean at low temp since these temps are usually producing a lot of pollution. However after a few km everything is fine.

The stock 117 has a large powerband, it is a pleasure to open the throttle on the highway in 6th gear. Accelerating from a traffic light leaves a lot of people behind, they just can ear a throaty sound that isn't ear breaking. IMHO the stock sound is perfect for sensations when accelerating, while allowing long rides while listening to music: I won't change it.

It is of course too early to see what the engine will become in the next thousands of km but for sure it is already fun to use.

The "cycling part" is really excellent now, the whole bike balance is really good. (I don't know how it is called in English, in French we usually separate, for a bike, the "engine part" from what I call here the "cycling part" - wheels, tires, shocks, frame effects having side effects on the link with the ground, please tell me the correct wording in English as I found no translation for what I call here the "cycling part" ("partie cycle" en Français)

I start touching ground in turns, the stock tires seem good on dry roads, accurate, but I had no chance to test them yet on wet ground. Coming from the 2013 FLHTK, this bike is a total pleasure, it is like wearing sneakers after leaded boots: it much less physical to push the bike hard in turns or road traffic, it really goes where you look at without sweating.

The cycling part fits very well with the engine power, and the combined braking is also excellent, but I was a bit surprised at first after all these years without such a kind of braking (I had combined braking on the K1200LT but that dates back from 2010 and significant progress has been done obviously from that time).

I had to do an emergency harsh braking in town a couple of hours ago (I was playing with the engine and was about to take over a car that decided that it was time to immediately turn left...), and combined braking + ABS did the job finely, I was able to get from a hard acceleration to a complete stop with a good safety margin, and able to move away without having to put my feet on the ground: the front end didn't dive, or, more exactly, I didn't feel it dive a lot, I just felt the rear tire sliding a bit in the last couple of meters, and that was because it was braking on the ground marks of a pedestrian walk. The frame was still, the bike did exactly what I was expecting it to do, no locked wheels, no loss of balance.

Overall appreciation at the moment: this is a good, fun and sane bike, its engine is on par with its "cycling part". If I have to summarize it in a single word it would be "balanced", which is for me the ultimate compliment for a vehicle: I can ride it hard, if I crash it will be only because of my stupidity, or external factors, not because of the bike's design. This is what I'm looking for in a bike: to be fun AND sane. And all of this with the luxury of a EG limited CVO, that's total pleasure.

I think I will love it very much for a long period of time :-)

(sorry for the long post!)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 03:31:20 PM by bpf »
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Heatwave

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Re: 2018
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2017, 06:24:20 PM »

Nice write-up. The best word to use in english for "cycling" would be "handling". We use "handling" as a general term referring to braking, suspension, balance, center of gravity, steering, tire grip. Its the most common term used when talking about performance cars and motorcycles.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 06:27:31 PM by Heatwave »
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2017, 02:36:30 PM »

Nice write-up. The best word to use in english for "cycling" would be "handling". We use "handling" as a general term referring to braking, suspension, balance, center of gravity, steering, tire grip. Its the most common term used when talking about performance cars and motorcycles.
IMHO handling depends on the "engine part", the "cycling part" and other subsets like the frame, center of gravity, mass balance, etc. The results of all those parts should be the handling as defined also there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_handling. Sorry I fell in nitpicking, this must be genetic with French speakers  ;) Anyway you understood what I meant.

I had a chance to ride on wet roads today. However I was very quiet since it didn't rain for weeks so the water made the road surface very slippy. I was coming back from the office, in medium traffic, I wasn't able to really try ABS like I usually do, on a straight road/street with no one, and a good harsh braking to see how the bike stops. (I'm a deep lover of ABS on motorbikes)

The combined braking feels a bit strange on a wet surface, I'll take some times to get used to it, it doesn't triggers ABS very quickly on the rear tire so you may get a (small) bit of sliding. However the bike is still very sane.

I was surprised by a car making a stop (at slow speed), I was able to move easily between this car and another, inserting myself between the two lanes while braking on the wet road surface and felling ABS being triggered.

I think that with the FLHTK I wouldn't have been able to ride so finely.

So what you get with the CVO isn't just a questionable paint job (according to American taste  ;)) or (lack of) chromes, it's a HD that is on the same level that German made touring bikes, at least from a few years ago since I didn't had the chance to ride a K1600 for the comparison (and don't want to, who cares about 6 cylinders and 250km/h since you can lose your license with only 2 cylinders and a much slower speed?).

When accelerating on dry pedestrian walk markings, the rear wheel is often spinning: the M8 117 has a very good potential and seems to be a perfect engine for the weight of the EG.

I still have to ride with a passenger, but I have some difficulties to find one these days. (internal reorganization at my home, wife/girlfriend's position is vacant and recruiting faces harsh competition)
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Heatwave

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Re: 2018
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2017, 03:00:47 PM »

For Americans, "handling" is somewhat independent of engine performance. Small cars with small engines can have excellent "handling". A big powerful car wih an extremely powerful engine can have lousy "handling". Based in your description of "cycling" being "wheels, tires, shocks, frame effects and how it links to the ground", that is exactly what an American is referring to when they state that the "handling" of a vehicle is good or bad.

Feel free to use whatever term you wish, but "handling" is the term to use if you're trying to communicate how the motorcycle responds to the road surface through the tires, suspension, frame and steering.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:03:14 PM by Heatwave »
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bpf

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Re: 2018
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2017, 05:33:32 PM »

Then let's go with "handling"! A few minutes ago I just tried high speed curves (+/- 180km/h) using the highway pegs and stability is good, the frame doesn't tack(?) -> "louvoyer" in French. Of course it's not a sport bike and using this pegs I offered a larger surface to the wind but it's still fine. And the 300 watts of the stereo do the job also, you cana hear music at this speed.

I had a compliment about the bike today: "how nice it is! And, at last, no more chrome!" I swear it's true! (from a woman that doesn't ride).
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