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Author Topic: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!  (Read 15844 times)

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MJZ

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2007, 04:59:10 PM »

Although I completely agree with your assessment of Rudy, if Fred Thompson throws his hat into the ring (which I think he will) I will have a tough decision. Having worked for Fred and I am proud to say I really know him, you would have to look long and hard to find a finer human being. You will not find a smarter or more honest man around, (as honest as possible in a political venue). As he has been elected to every office he has run for and all by a landslide, garnering virtually 70% of the voting registered democrats, I feel he is flatout electable. A Rudy / Fred ticket would be my dream team.
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2007, 05:02:16 PM »

Although I completely agree with your assessment of Rudy, if Fred Thompson throws his hat into the ring (which I think he will) I will have a tough decision. Having worked for Fred and I am proud to say I really know him, you would have to look long and hard to find a finer human being. You will not find a smarter or more honest man around, (as honest as possible in a political venue). As he has been elected to every office he has run for and all by a landslide, garnering virtually 70% of the voting registered democrats, I feel he is flatout electable. A Rudy / Fred ticket would be my dream team.

Is it me, or do actors make better politicians than the supposed real ones ? I agree. Fred's got that special something that says leadership.

B B
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MJZ

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2007, 05:21:32 PM »

Is it me, or do actors make better politicians than the supposed real ones ? I agree. Fred's got that special something that says leadership.

B B

Plus both are real people that have been totally screwed in divorce court. Quite a few of us can relate to that. :2vrolijk_21:
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Travelinshoes

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2007, 08:56:22 PM »

Quote
Point taken, but he should never have been asked the question, IMO.  The whole thing was a witch hunt.  And he was not impeached, either.

Ummm...yes he was.
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SixGun

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2007, 10:59:40 PM »

Here is probably the greatest example of how the "So called Elite" like Al Gore want us to live but of course thier life is exempt from what they want us peasants to live like.  I'm so glad he is looking out for us, I feel he is the answer to the earth's problems!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23390848-details/Air+miles+Travolta+urges+fans+to+%27do+their+bit%27+for+the+environment/article.do
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Midnight Rider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2007, 12:29:18 AM »

Ummm...yes he was.

Excuse me, but I think, if history serves me, that impeachment means you were removed from office.  I don't recall Clinton being removed from office...

Impeachment PROCEEDINGS is a different subject.

Let's see...the last president in my historical reference to RESIGN because he was surely to be impeached was Tricky Dick....And he covered up a breaking and entering, not a BJ.

Then he was pardoned by a man who I personally respect as a good man, with good intentions, in an attempt to get the country back on track.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 12:44:29 AM by TCnBham »
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MJZ

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2007, 01:51:20 AM »

If you are wondering, I removed the post after counting to 1,000. BUT:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source im·peach       (ĭm-pēch')  Pronunciation Key 
tr.v.   im·peached, im·peach·ing, im·peach·es
To make an accusation against.
To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal. 
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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2007, 02:17:59 AM »

Excuse me, but I think, if history serves me, that impeachment means you were removed from office.  I don't recall Clinton being removed from office...


Nope TC.  Impeachment (in this context) comes from the House of Representatives.  Whether it be against a Federal judge or the President (or whomever).  It is the accusation.  If the House votes impeachment the "trial" happens in the Senate.  US Chief Justice presides over the hole thing and the house members are the "prosecutors."  If the Senate votes to convict only then is the office holder removed from his position. 
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hard10

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2007, 02:23:37 AM »

Impeach:

Usage Note: When an irate citizen demands that a disfavored public official be impeached, the citizen clearly intends for the official to be removed from office. This popular use of impeach as a synonym of "throw out" (even if by due process) does not accord with the legal meaning of the word. As recent history has shown, when a public official is impeached, that is, formally accused of wrongdoing, this is only the start of what can be a lengthy process that may or may not lead to the official's removal from office. In strict usage, an official is impeached (accused), tried, and then convicted or acquitted. The vaguer use of impeach reflects disgruntled citizens' indifference to whether the official is forced from office by legal means or chooses to resign to avoid further disgrace.

Midnight Rider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2007, 02:30:32 AM »

If you are wondering, I removed the post after counting to 1,000. BUT:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source im·peach       (ĭm-pēch')  Pronunciation Key 
tr.v.   im·peached, im·peach·ing, im·peach·es
To make an accusation against.
To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal. 


I stand corrected on the definition of impeachment, but not on the ultimate conclusion:

President Bill Clinton was acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999 of the December 19, 1998, impeachment charge by the House of Representatives. The charges were perjury and obstruction of justice, arising from the Lewinsky scandal. After a 21-day trial, the Senate vote fell short of the two-thirds majority required for conviction and removal from office under the Constitution. The impeachment proceedings were largely party-line, with no Democratic Senators voting for conviction and only three Democratic Representatives voting for impeachment. In all, 55 senators voted "not guilty," and 45 voted "guilty" on the charge of perjury. The Senate also acquitted on the obstruction charge with 50 votes cast each way.

While the impeachment process dominated American politics for the better part of the year and took up much of the energy of the Clinton administration as it ran its course, it also failed to win the president's opponents much of the political advantage that they sought. Shortly before the 1998 midterm elections, Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, R-Georgia, predicted a 32-seat gain in the House for Republicans and according to CNN.com archives from November 1998, Gingrich made far-reaching efforts to link Democratic congressional candidates to President Clinton.[citation needed] This plan actually backfired in favor of the Democrats. Opinion polls throughout the trial illustrated that the public opposed impeaching the president by margins of 65–70% [1] and the President's public job-approval ratings remained extremely high throughout the entire year, even more popular than he had been prior to the scandal.[2] In fact, shortly after his December 1998 impeachment his popularity attained its highest level ever with a 73 percent approval rating, and public perceptions of the Republican majority in Congress diminished.[3] Such may have contributed to the surprise subsequent loss of five seats suffered by the Republican party in the United States House of Representatives in that year's congressional election.[4] The election was largely seen as public vindication for President Clinton and then-Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, proclaimed that the Democrats had achieved prominent victories in the elections.

However, I do not stand corrected on the "witch hunt" statement, supported by the statistics above.  Total waste of time and taxpayers money which could have been better spent on matters of more importance than whether a man lied about getting a blow job in the oval office.  As evidenced above, who gave a chit other than the Republicans?  It clearly backfired on them, and we got a winner of a President as a result...or was he truely the winner?

History will support the fact of who was better for the country during each of the two terms in the Presidency.

This has gotten way off topic, which was originally about whether you discount a preponderance of evidence, proven by a vast majority of the worlds top scientist, sociologists, and enviornmental chemists, because a certain individual presented the information, who, in this case, is generally looked upon with at least some pre-judice by certain people.  I do not shoot the messenger because he tells me something I don't want to hear.
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Twolanerider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2007, 02:34:27 AM »

TC needs an adult beverage  :drink: .
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Midnight Rider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2007, 02:41:33 AM »

Technical definitions aside, the INTENT of an impeachment process is to REMOVE the incumbent from office, and the charges should be serious enough to warrant such action, time, and money spent doing so.

Clearly, the intent was to remove Clinton from office.

Also, do not forget that the military action in Iraq was a victory by military forces built by Bill Clinton's administration, NOT George W.  He went to war with the forces and technology put in place by the admininstration prior to his "election".
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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2007, 02:49:58 AM »

TC needs an adult beverage  :drink: .

Something a bit different than that, Don.  Bad day.  I can really get on a soap box about this kind of stuff, so will step down for the evening before I say anything else to offend anyone.
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Twolanerider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2007, 03:16:30 AM »

Technical definitions aside, the INTENT of an impeachment process is to REMOVE the incumbent from office, and the charges should be serious enough to warrant such action, time, and money spent doing so.

Clearly, the intent was to remove Clinton from office.

Also, do not forget that the military action in Iraq was a victory by military forces built by Bill Clinton's administration, NOT George W.  He went to war with the forces and technology put in place by the admininstration prior to his "election".

TC, the vagaries of political impeachment are such that I leave reasons for such things to more wisened souls.  The House, in this case, knew they didn't stand a chance in the Senate.  For reasons that were part of the public evidence record and for reasons they couldn't argue before the Senate the House managers felt compelled to continue.  Hell, part of it was just the process.  They got started and couldn't get off the train.  It's human nature.

Now, as for the "military buildup" of the Clinton administration....   Managing the interwar oversight of Iraq and the problems in the Balkans and elsewhere required the Clinton administration to maintain a more robust military than was ever its intent to begin with.  A reality brought on by the facts of the day; not their (admitted) intent.  Even with this fact many budget lines suffered.  And if you think the uniforms were universally happy with all the things brought in after the honeymoon period of the current Bush administration you're sadly mistaken.  Rumsfeld did not sail a wholly contented ship.  Not even close.
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Twolanerider

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Re: An Inconvenient Truth, Indeed!
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2007, 03:24:32 AM »

Before whipping the city into shape after it was destroyed by previous stewardships, he was instrumental in bringing the mob to its knees here too as a Federal Prosecutor! He bucked the system and changed parties when he refused to support the Governor in an election. That guy has balls and will stick to his guns. He was a NYer that only wanted what was best for the city. He'll do the same for the country. His handling of the events of 9/11 are almost unprecedented by a politician. Most would have gone running away and handled things remotely or let an Aide do it. I wasn't crazy about some of his agendas, but he was singlehandedly the best thing to happen to NYC in recent times! There's only one candidate for President as of now and that's RUDY!!! Hoist! 8)

Howie, looking at NY state as the big electoral college package that it is how is he still regarded in NYC?  Is the near hero worship that was part of the post 9/11 landscape still close to as palpable.  Obviously in a normal race with a "normal" candidate he'd expect to do better upstate and get his ass kicked in the City. 

Is the post 9/11 favor still strong enough that local sentiment suggests he'd be in an even fight with Senator Clinton for the state in the national election?  I've seen numbers so divergent that I don't trust any of them.  If a Republican can actually take New York, however, that's huge and completely alters the standard electoral arithmetic.
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