Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[HogDude]

Folks,

I would like to ask some questions regarding do-it yourself oil changes and service. Frankly, I'm getting tired of throwing out $280 to my service dept. every 5,000 miles for what appears to me to be nothing more than an overglorified oil change. 

1 - Does everyone change their primary and trans. fluids at the same time as oil changes, at 5,000 miles ?

2- I have changed the oil in my bike before; is it anymore involved doing the tranny and primary ?

I appreciate any input and typical procedures, tip, tricks, etc. that everyone follows.

[Twolanerider]

Folks,

I would like to ask some questions regarding do-it yourself oil changes and service. Frankly, I'm getting tired of throwing out $280 to my service dept. every 5,000 miles for what appears to me to be nothing more than an overglorified oil change. 

1 - Does everyone change their primary and trans. fluids at the same time as oil changes, at 5,000 miles ?

2- I have changed the oil in my bike before; is it anymore involved doing the tranny and primary ?

I appreciate any input and typical procedures, tip, tricks, etc. that everyone follows.

Can anyone link to the dead cat photo?

[Fired00d]

Can anyone link to the dead cat photo?

How about just posting it again...

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

How about just posting it again...

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Couldn't find the frakking thing.

[Puzzled]

That's a good picture. While it may be old hat for the vets, the newbees need a helping hand to get started.

[HogDude]

That's a good picture. While it may be old hat for the vets, the newbees need a helping hand to get started.

I've seen the dead-cat picture before; although that doesn't answer the questions. 

[Fired00d]

I've seen the dead-cat picture before; although that doesn't answer the questions. 

I guess we thought you were asking in regards to what/where would need be drained. Similar to draining the oil, you drain the tranny and primary. If you don't already you should buy the shop manual and parts manual for your bike and these procedures will be covered in there. The main thing is to have the tools/equipment and some basic mechanical skills and desire to do the job.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Puzzled]

1 - Does everyone change their primary and trans. fluids at the same time as oil changes, at 5,000 miles ?

2- I have changed the oil in my bike before; is it anymore involved doing the tranny and primary ?

1. No, not with every oil change, every other one (3k interval oil change here) close enough to your 5K though.
2. No

[HogDude]

I guess we thought you were asking in regards to what/where would need be drained. Similar to draining the oil, you drain the tranny and primary. If you don't already you should buy the shop manual and parts manual for your bike and these procedures will be covered in there. The main thing is to have the tools/equipment and some basic mechanical skills and desire to do the job.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

D00d,
Thanks for the response. I just recently picked up the service manual; although haven't done much reading yet.
thanks

[HogDude]

1. No, not with every oil change, every other one (3k interval oil change here) close enough to your 5K though.
2. No

Puzzled,
Thanks for the info. I am curious as to how many change at 3k instead of 5, since we talkin' syn in the CVO, but hey, I know that's an entire debate in and of itself.
 

[Mikey]

Hog Dude,
I agree on the glorified oil change. I think the service manual is an excellent resource. Buy the service manual and follow the steps.That is what the dealer personnel is supposed to do. I don't feel like they do it. I make a copy and check off each step for the mileage listed. I think you need to pay special attention to the critical fasteners. The only trick I have found is to use one half of a half gallon plastic milk carton under the oil filter to catch the oil that would go everywhere if you don't. Good luck and enjoy doing it yourself.
Mike

[Boatman]

It's not hard but can be messy changing all 3 holes.

Drain fluids with bike at operating temperature.
I change fluids with the bike on a side stand and not a lift.
Have the proper size tools.
Put new orings on the drain plugs.
When removing the oil filter, stuff a rag over the voltage regulator and front motor mount, loosen filter, then get a strong baggy or cut out the side and closed end of  a 2 litre bottle to slip over the filter and catch 90% of the oil that is left in the filter.
Don't overfill fluids.
Have a clean funnel.

Hope this helps a little-read the book and have fun.    

[Boatman]

Most dealers don't do everything that is listed at the specified service interval(S).

I normally go 3-3500 miles on oil and filter and primary and tranny every other oil change with all Redline products.  If I know I may be gone when the oil is due, it would get changed before I left.  Everyones situation is a little different.

[hard10]

I guess we thought you were asking in regards to what/where would need be drained. Similar to draining the oil, you drain the tranny and primary. If you don't already you should buy the shop manual and parts manual for your bike and these procedures will be covered in there. The main thing is to have the tools/equipment and some basic mechanical skills and desire to do the job.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

That's the key!

[Puzzled]

You will develop your own system after a few service's.

When I change the primary fluid I like to peak in there at the chain, make any necessary clutch adjustments if need be.

[HogDude]

Hog Dude,
I agree on the glorified oil change. I think the service manual is an excellent resource. Buy the service manual and follow the steps.That is what the dealer personnel is supposed to do. I don't feel like they do it. I make a copy and check off each step for the mileage listed. I think you need to pay special attention to the critical fasteners. The only trick I have found is to use one half of a half gallon plastic milk carton under the oil filter to catch the oil that would go everywhere if you don't. Good luck and enjoy doing it yourself.
Mike

Mike,
Thanks.... I will keep the milk carton in mind.
BTW, cool avatar 

[Serkcus]

Is the "dead cat picture" taken from the back or the front of bike. We must be clear when giving instruction

[HogDude]

It's not hard but can be messy changing all 3 holes.

Drain fluids with bike at operating temperature.
I change fluids with the bike on a side stand and not a lift.
Have the proper size tools.
Put new orings on the drain plugs.
When removing the oil filter, stuff a rag over the voltage regulator and front motor mount, loosen filter, then get a strong baggy or cut out the side and closed end of  a 2 litre bottle to slip over the filter and catch 90% of the oil that is left in the filter.
Don't overfill fluids.
Have a clean funnel.

Hope this helps a little-read the book and have fun.    

Boatman,
Yes..... it does help.... thanks.
That's exactly why I opened the dialog for us new wrenchers.
I see 2 things I did wrong, the one and only time I changed the oil myself. I DID put it on my lift instead of the side stand, and I didn't put on new o-rings.
Thanks for those other tips...

Keep em coming guys  

[HogDude]

Here's a list of the items that are noted on my last service other than of course the SYN 3 oil and filter.

11105 -    Oring  -2
34906-85D -   inspection cover gasket
60391-04    drain plug

[Boatman]

About being on the side stand, once the fluids have about quit draining, I get on the bike, stand it up straight for a few minutes, and get a little more out.
You need pans about 4" high and big enough to hold 4 qts of motor oil.  
Look things over while fluids are draining.  You'll learn alot about your bike that way.
I also recommend a parts manual for your bike as it's exploded pictures will sometimes clarify what the service manual might take for granted that we know.

[Twolanerider]

Puzzled,
Thanks for the info. I am curious as to how many change at 3k instead of 5, since we talkin' syn in the CVO, but hey, I know that's an entire debate in and of itself.
 

Oil change at 5k.  Trans and primary every other oil change on mine.  Dead cat every 25k.

[Twolanerider]

About being on the side stand, once the fluids have about quit draining, I get on the bike, stand it up straight for a few minutes, and get a little more out.
You need pans about 4" high and big enough to hold 4 qts of motor oil.  
Look things over while fluids are draining.  You'll learn alot about your bike that way.
I also recommend a parts manual for your bike as it's exploded pictures will sometimes clarify what the service manual might take for granted that we know.

If someone does not have a pan to capture the draining motor oil a very effective catch pan is a gallon anti-freeze jug.  Just cut the top out of it.  Low enough to slide under the bike with room to spare.  Large enough volume to catch it all.  Big enough mouth when you cut it open to make it an easy target for the oil to hit.

[hard10]

Oil change at 5k.  Trans and primary every other oil change on mine.  Dead cat every 25k.

Don, is that a dead one or a live one? Sassy is moving down this weekend and has two... (still alive at this moment)

When is your 25k due?

[Twolanerider]

Don, is that a dead one or a live one? Sassy is moving down this weekend and has two... (still alive at this moment)

When is your 25k due?

It's a bit beyond 25k now.  Went over everything back in early March.  Gotten used to the odor so just leave the dead cat installed now.  It's how I find my bike at rallies with so many other red ones sitting around.  Live cats you have to service more often.  Damn things.

[HogDude]

About being on the side stand, once the fluids have about quit draining, I get on the bike, stand it up straight for a few minutes, and get a little more out.
You need pans about 4" high and big enough to hold 4 qts of motor oil.  
Look things over while fluids are draining.  You'll learn alot about your bike that way.
I also recommend a parts manual for your bike as it's exploded pictures will sometimes clarify what the service manual might take for granted that we know.

Boatman,
Thanks for the recommendation of the part manual....

[HogDude]

Oil change at 5k.  Trans and primary every other oil change on mine.  Dead cat every 25k.

Gotcha.... Thanks 

[Boatman]

2Lanes's idea on the gallon jug as a catch pan is a good one.  Even I learned something new.   

[VAZHOG]

Folks,

I would like to ask some questions regarding do-it yourself oil changes and service. Frankly, I'm getting tired of throwing out $280 to my service dept. every 5,000 miles for what appears to me to be nothing more than an overglorified oil change. 

1 - Does everyone change their primary and trans. fluids at the same time as oil changes, at 5,000 miles ?

2- I have changed the oil in my bike before; is it anymore involved doing the tranny and primary ?

I appreciate any input and typical procedures, tip, tricks, etc. that everyone follows.

When I Buy a New HD I let the dealer Service (ME) For length of the factory Warranty-( After all he has already screwed me buy selling it to me)  The reason I do this is because of any Pissing contest over who did what when. YES, The 5k is changing all the fluids, if they do it according to the shop manual it is Change the fluids and check stuff - THE LIST IS IN THE SERVICE MANUAL.


After that I change it myself every 5K All three holes with the sh#tty Screaming Eagle oil that really is amsoil with the HD label but don't tell all the amway dealers that. HD does not have it's own oil refinery DUH!

OF course this is what I do so I know IT"S NOT RIGHT but that's the way I do IT!  Your way will differ and not be any more right either.

[Twolanerider]

After that I change it myself every 5K All three holes with the sh#tty Screaming Eagle oil that really is amsoil with the HD label but don't tell all the amway dealers that. HD does not have it's own oil refinery DUH!

HD=Amsoil=Amway ?

 

[HogDude]

After that I change it myself every 5K All three holes with the sh#tty Screaming Eagle oil that really is amsoil with the HD label but don't tell all the amway dealers that. HD does not have it's own oil refinery DUH!

OF course this is what I do so I know IT"S NOT RIGHT but that's the way I do IT!  Your way will differ and not be any more right either.

Thanks, VAZ

[iski]

HogDude - Just caught up with the thread.  Good advice here on fluid changes.  Manual is most helpful.

So Amzoil = HD Syn 3?  Interesting.  Just a matter of price at that point.

[VAZHOG]

Thanks, VAZ

Is that a real thanks or an internet thanks I just can't tell anymore 

[HogDude]

Is that a real thanks or an internet thanks I just can't tell anymore 

A REAL thanks ! 

[Midnight Rider]

1st, I think Vaz is jerking, not pulling, legs about Amsoil being same as Syn3...it is NOT!!!

I use Mobil I Vtwin 20W50 in the crankcase. Amsoil 20w50 is another equally good choice.  I get the Mobil I because it's readily available at Advanced Auto and other places like that.  I also use K&N Chrome Oil filters because I like the convenience of the nut on the end to get them loose.  HD, or Amsoil filters will do as well. One of the better filters is a Wix, but they aren't chrome and are not easy to find.  I would never put Syn3 back in my motor...it came out at 500 miles.

I change crankcase oil every 5K...with good synthetics like those listed above, anything sooner is a waste of product, IMO.  But this chit is like talking about religion...

I was running Mobil 1 in all three holes, but last time I switched the tranny to Redline Shockproof (heavy duty), and the primary to Redline MTL.  I'll be changing them every other time from now on.  Opinions on that are also like religion/politics.  Bottom line is that you can't go wrong using any of the products mentioned thus far, and the application.

I drain everything when the oil is hot, or at least very warm...you'll have to ride the bike a few miles before doing the service to get it all warm enough. A good baggie over the oil filter after you've intitially broken it loose will help with catching some of the mess.  I use my J&S jack when changing fluids, and the draining piece that attaches to it, allowing all the fluid to drain to one point, and I picked up a neat catch pan at Wally World that is rectangular, has a capped spout on one end, two holes with removable plugs where the oil drains into the pan...keeps it all contained.  I have a 5 gallon bucket, also available at Wal Mark, to store a couple of three changes in before taking to the recycle place.  If you use the same product in all three holes, one funnel will do.  If you use Redline HD Shockproof in the tranny, you'll need another funnel dedicated to that pink, sticky, chit, unless you want to clean it out...I use one of the measuring type funnels with a tube on the end, as the tranny doesn't take more than about 20oz on pre 07 bikes.  My opinion is not to put more than 3.5 quarts in the crankcase, ride it around a day or two, then check the level.  My bike likes to be 1/3 to 1/2 quart low...it'll blow the excess out the breather otherwise (over time).

Always use new o-rings, and at least entertain the idea of a new Derby cover gasket on the primary.  Also torque the bolts...I do this as I tend to want to overtighten everything.  If you tell your dealer you want all the gaskets/o-rings to do a complete change, they should have them right behind the counter...at least mine does.  Clean all the magnetic plugs well before reinstalling them with a clean shop towel...I use the paper ones for this kind of stuff, and look to make sure there are no unusual pieces of metal attached to the magnets.  It'll be like a fine gray silt if all is well.

If you do not have an Automatic Primary Chain Tensioner, you'll have to check that as well through the side inspection plate and adjust per the sevice manual. The Auto adjuster is money well spent, IMO.  Parts manuals help a lot because they have the exploded diagrams of how everything is put together if you forget.

It's also a good time to give everything a good once-over to see if anything is about to fall off the scooter...these Harleys shake, rattle and roll.  Keep your receipts and write down when you did the work, especially if it's still in warranty.

Congratulations, you've just saved yourself over 200 dollars, you know it's been done correctly, and it gives you the familiarity with the bike so you'll know where things are located.  If you just detest doing this kind of stuff, don't do it again.  I get a lot of satisfaction working on my own bike as much as possible.  I don't trust dealers though.

[HogDude]

Congratulations, you've just saved yourself over 200 dollars, you know it's been done correctly, and it gives you the familiarity with the bike so you'll know where things are located.  If you just detest doing this kind of stuff, don't do it again.  I get a lot of satisfaction working on my own bike as much as possible.  I don't trust dealers though.

TC - ,
Great info..... Thanks for the splainin' your routine and the detail. 
I have a service manual, so I guess it's time for a part manual (like the service manual wasn't expensive enough).

[SilverDawg]

1st, I think Vaz is jerking, not pulling, legs about Amsoil being same as Syn3...it is NOT!!!

I use Mobil I Vtwin 20W50 in the crankcase. Amsoil 20w50 is another equally good choice.  I get the Mobil I because it's readily available at Advanced Auto and other places like that.  I also use K&N Chrome Oil filters because I like the convenience of the nut on the end to get them loose.  HD, or Amsoil filters will do as well. One of the better filters is a Wix, but they aren't chrome and are not easy to find.  I would never put Syn3 back in my motor...it came out at 500 miles.

I change crankcase oil every 5K...with good synthetics like those listed above, anything sooner is a waste of product, IMO.  But this chit is like talking about religion...

I was running Mobil 1 in all three holes, but last time I switched the tranny to Redline Shockproof (heavy duty), and the primary to Redline MTL.  I'll be changing them every other time from now on.  Opinions on that are also like religion/politics.  Bottom line is that you can't go wrong using any of the products mentioned thus far, and the application.

I drain everything when the oil is hot, or at least very warm...you'll have to ride the bike a few miles before doing the service to get it all warm enough. A good baggie over the oil filter after you've intitially broken it loose will help with catching some of the mess.  I use my J&S jack when changing fluids, and the draining piece that attaches to it, allowing all the fluid to drain to one point, and I picked up a neat catch pan at Wally World that is rectangular, has a capped spout on one end, two holes with removable plugs where the oil drains into the pan...keeps it all contained.  I have a 5 gallon bucket, also available at Wal Mark, to store a couple of three changes in before taking to the recycle place.  If you use the same product in all three holes, one funnel will do.  If you use Redline HD Shockproof in the tranny, you'll need another funnel dedicated to that pink, sticky, chit, unless you want to clean it out...I use one of the measuring type funnels with a tube on the end, as the tranny doesn't take more than about 20oz on pre 07 bikes.  My opinion is not to put more than 3.5 quarts in the crankcase, ride it around a day or two, then check the level.  My bike likes to be 1/3 to 1/2 quart low...it'll blow the excess out the breather otherwise (over time).

Always use new o-rings, and at least entertain the idea of a new Derby cover gasket on the primary.  Also torque the bolts...I do this as I tend to want to overtighten everything.  If you tell your dealer you want all the gaskets/o-rings to do a complete change, they should have them right behind the counter...at least mine does.  Clean all the magnetic plugs well before reinstalling them with a clean shop towel...I use the paper ones for this kind of stuff, and look to make sure there are no unusual pieces of metal attached to the magnets.  It'll be like a fine gray silt if all is well.

If you do not have an Automatic Primary Chain Tensioner, you'll have to check that as well through the side inspection plate and adjust per the sevice manual. The Auto adjuster is money well spent, IMO.  Parts manuals help a lot because they have the exploded diagrams of how everything is put together if you forget.

It's also a good time to give everything a good once-over to see if anything is about to fall off the scooter...these Harleys shake, rattle and roll.  Keep your receipts and write down when you did the work, especially if it's still in warranty.

Congratulations, you've just saved yourself over 200 dollars, you know it's been done correctly, and it gives you the familiarity with the bike so you'll know where things are located.  If you just detest doing this kind of stuff, don't do it again.  I get a lot of satisfaction working on my own bike as much as possible.  I don't trust dealers though.

Great post and thanks for taking the time to do it.

I just recieved a copy of the Fix My Hog DVD for touring models.  It is really helping me learn more about how to do somethings myself.  I may not do them now, but someday I will and these DVD's help us less mechanically inclined.

[Fired00d]

TC - ,
Great info..... Thanks for the splainin' your routine and the detail. 
I have a service manual, so I guess it's time for a part manual (like the service manual wasn't expensive enough).

It will be money well spent. I have all the manuals for mine.... '04 Touring Shop Manual, FLHTCSE Supplement Manual, FLHTCSE Parts Manual, and '04 Touring Electrical Diagnostic Manual.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[iski]

HogDude - Just caught up with the thread.  Good advice here on fluid changes.  Manual is most helpful.

So Amzoil = HD Syn 3?  Interesting.  Just a matter of price at that point.

After Terry's comment did a little checking - HD Syn3 is manufactured by Sunoco, according to what I read.  FYI

[VAZHOG]

1st, I think Vaz is jerking, not pulling, legs about Amsoil being same as Syn3...it is NOT!!!

I use Mobil I Vtwin 20W50 in the crankcase. Amsoil 20w50 is another equally good choice.  I get the Mobil I because it's readily available at Advanced Auto and other places like that.  I also use K&N Chrome Oil filters because I like the convenience of the nut on the end to get them loose.  HD, or Amsoil filters will do as well. One of the better filters is a Wix, but they aren't chrome and are not easy to find.  I would never put Syn3 back in my motor...it came out at 500 miles.

I change crankcase oil every 5K...with good synthetics like those listed above, anything sooner is a waste of product, IMO.  But this chit is like talking about religion...

I was running Mobil 1 in all three holes, but last time I switched the tranny to Redline Shockproof (heavy duty), and the primary to Redline MTL.  I'll be changing them every other time from now on.  Opinions on that are also like religion/politics.  Bottom line is that you can't go wrong using any of the products mentioned thus far, and the application.

I drain everything when the oil is hot, or at least very warm...you'll have to ride the bike a few miles before doing the service to get it all warm enough. A good baggie over the oil filter after you've intitially broken it loose will help with catching some of the mess.  I use my J&S jack when changing fluids, and the draining piece that attaches to it, allowing all the fluid to drain to one point, and I picked up a neat catch pan at Wally World that is rectangular, has a capped spout on one end, two holes with removable plugs where the oil drains into the pan...keeps it all contained.  I have a 5 gallon bucket, also available at Wal Mark, to store a couple of three changes in before taking to the recycle place.  If you use the same product in all three holes, one funnel will do.  If you use Redline HD Shockproof in the tranny, you'll need another funnel dedicated to that pink, sticky, chit, unless you want to clean it out...I use one of the measuring type funnels with a tube on the end, as the tranny doesn't take more than about 20oz on pre 07 bikes.  My opinion is not to put more than 3.5 quarts in the crankcase, ride it around a day or two, then check the level.  My bike likes to be 1/3 to 1/2 quart low...it'll blow the excess out the breather otherwise (over time).

Always use new o-rings, and at least entertain the idea of a new Derby cover gasket on the primary.  Also torque the bolts...I do this as I tend to want to overtighten everything.  If you tell your dealer you want all the gaskets/o-rings to do a complete change, they should have them right behind the counter...at least mine does.  Clean all the magnetic plugs well before reinstalling them with a clean shop towel...I use the paper ones for this kind of stuff, and look to make sure there are no unusual pieces of metal attached to the magnets.  It'll be like a fine gray silt if all is well.

If you do not have an Automatic Primary Chain Tensioner, you'll have to check that as well through the side inspection plate and adjust per the sevice manual. The Auto adjuster is money well spent, IMO.  Parts manuals help a lot because they have the exploded diagrams of how everything is put together if you forget.

It's also a good time to give everything a good once-over to see if anything is about to fall off the scooter...these Harleys shake, rattle and roll.  Keep your receipts and write down when you did the work, especially if it's still in warranty.

Congratulations, you've just saved yourself over 200 dollars, you know it's been done correctly, and it gives you the familiarity with the bike so you'll know where things are located.  If you just detest doing this kind of stuff, don't do it again.  I get a lot of satisfaction working on my own bike as much as possible.  I don't trust dealers though.

I just knew I could count on you to clear things up for everyone .

(i use all that crap after I'm out of warranty) 

[HogDude]

It will be money well spent. I have all the manuals for mine.... '04 Touring Shop Manual, FLHTCSE Supplement Manual, FLHTCSE Parts Manual, and '04 Touring Electrical Diagnostic Manual.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

D00d,
Heck, I thought I had it covered with the service manual and the addiitonal supplement, especially after dropping $100+ on them; didn't realize there was more manuals to complement them and help me part with my money  

[VAZHOG]

After Terry's comment did a little checking - HD Syn3 is manufactured by Sunoco, according to what I read.  FYI

And they bought it from someone else and passed the saving on to HD who in turn passes (the savings) on to you.

[Fired00d]

D00d,
Heck, I thought I had it covered with the service manual and the addiitonal supplement, especially after dropping $100+ on them; didn't realize there was more manuals to complement them and help me part with my money  

Oh, that's just the beginning. We'll be able to help you part w/more money then you knew you had.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

After Terry's comment did a little checking - HD Syn3 is manufactured by Sunoco, according to what I read.  FYI

Yeah, the entire HD=Amsoil=Amway equation had a few flaws in it  .

[iski]

Yeah, the entire HD=Amsoil=Amway equation had a few flaws in it  .

It seemed odd, since the Amsoil websites trash Syn-3 - no quarter given.  Amway woud have a 'free' bar of soap with each quart or a 'complimentary air freshener.   

The veracity of the mystery button remains a pillar of truth by comparison. 


Is dumping used oil in the middle of my neighbors yard considered bad form?   

[Twolanerider]

Is dumping used oil in the middle of my neighbors yard considered bad form?   

Only if you use it to spell H O N D A

[iski]

Only if you use it to spell H O N D A

Good.  I planned to use it to spell goat effer, so it must be ok.

 

[HogDude]

It seemed odd, since the Amsoil websites trash Syn-3 - no quarter given.  Amway woud have a 'free' bar of soap with each quart or a 'complimentary air freshener.   

The veracity of the mystery button remains a pillar of truth by comparison. 


Is dumping used oil in the middle of my neighbors yard considered bad form?   

I've been surfing some of the sites tonight. Looks like most of the formal test results if you will place Amsoil as #1 and Mobil-1 as #2. Syn-3 is about #6 on the totem pole.

As far as you oil dumping, only if you get caught !  

[SOKOOLJ]

Appreciate the posting TCnBham. I currently do not service my own scoot, just too many warranty issues with her to this point. Since having the motor replaced, runs like a champ. I am now considering doing it on my own. The 5000 service will be done next week, prob the last by the dealer.

SOKOOL

[DW6019]

Syn-3 is Sunoco, not Amsoil.
Although the Milk/Anti-Freeze jug etc will work. Drag Specialties sells a nice little half round plastic oil filter drain deal with a notch for the connector on the engine and a drain that extends down from the outer end to allow the oil to drain into a pan. No fuss, no mess. Insert it under the oil filter, twist it toward the engine and drain.
I have had one since 2000 so I do not remember the part number, but it is still in the Big Book if you look. It is also easy to clean, wipe out with a paper towel, then wash with a little Dawn, use again next time.

[Smiler]

Boatman,
Yes..... it does help.... thanks.
That's exactly why I opened the dialog for us new wrenchers.
I see 2 things I did wrong, the one and only time I changed the oil myself. I DID put it on my lift instead of the side stand, and I didn't put on new o-rings.
Thanks for those other tips...

Keep em coming guys  

Go to www.fixmyhog.com these guys offer a DVD step by step maintenance guide and it's a piece of cake to follow.  It even covers the tools you need to buy.
Happy wrenching

[HogDude]

Syn-3 is Sunoco, not Amsoil.
Although the Milk/Anti-Freeze jug etc will work. Drag Specialties sells a nice little half round plastic oil filter drain deal with a notch for the connector on the engine and a drain that extends down from the outer end to allow the oil to drain into a pan. No fuss, no mess. Insert it under the oil filter, twist it toward the engine and drain.
I have had one since 2000 so I do not remember the part number, but it is still in the Big Book if you look. It is also easy to clean, wipe out with a paper towel, then wash with a little Dawn, use again next time.

DW6019,
Thanks I'll check out the fat book on that... sounds like the trick

[HogDude]

Go to www.fixmyhog.com these guys offer a DVD step by step maintenance guide and it's a piece of cake to follow.  It even covers the tools you need to buy.
Happy wrenching

Smiler,
I was looking at their site last week and was curious if anyone had tried them and what their thoughts were.

[Smiler]

That's a good picture. While it may be old hat for the vets, the newbees need a helping hand to get started.

Here, here

[mrmagloo]

Regarding the oil filter change, I have installed the new Definite 5 filter system and I have to say, ability to totally avoid the oil dripping all over the motor alone makes the mod worth while. Prior, I tried every trick and nothing really worked well.

Now with the D5 installed, you leave the bike on the kick stand, loosen the cap, and there are holes in the perimeter. All you need is a little funnel and walla, the entire job now is a total cinch.

One of the best mods I've done!

[Twolanerider]

Regarding the oil filter change, I have installed the new Definite 5 filter system and I have to say, ability to totally avoid the oil dripping all over the motor alone makes the mod worth while. Prior, I tried every trick and nothing really worked well.

Now with the D5 installed, you leave the bike on the kick stand, loosen the cap, and there are holes in the perimeter. All you need is a little funnel and walla, the entire job now is a total cinch.

One of the best mods I've done!

[HogDude]

Regarding the oil filter change, I have installed the new Definite 5 filter system and I have to say, ability to totally avoid the oil dripping all over the motor alone makes the mod worth while. Prior, I tried every trick and nothing really worked well.

Now with the D5 installed, you leave the bike on the kick stand, loosen the cap, and there are holes in the perimeter. All you need is a little funnel and walla, the entire job now is a total cinch.

One of the best mods I've done!

Where did you purchase this ?

[VAZHOG]

Where did you purchase this ?

http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448769822&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302290923&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302290923&bmUID=1180462420809&bmLocale=en_US

[iski]

I've been surfing some of the sites tonight. Looks like most of the formal test results if you will place Amsoil as #1 and Mobil-1 as #2. Syn-3 is about #6 on the totem pole.

I read quite a bit when surfing for the HD oil manufacturer - after I found Sunoco.  Lots of sites put up by lots of Amsoil folks, so I tend to be more than a mite skeptical when somebody selling something trashes their competition.  No need for dissing if their product is truly superior, IMHO.  I know folks using all 3, who are pleased with all 3.  Most important is regular changes and regular maintenance - both dependent upon riding styles and conditions.

[SEULTRA]

Regarding the oil filter change, I have installed the new Definite 5 filter system and I have to say, ability to totally avoid the oil dripping all over the motor alone makes the mod worth while. Prior, I tried every trick and nothing really worked well.

Now with the D5 installed, you leave the bike on the kick stand, loosen the cap, and there are holes in the perimeter. All you need is a little funnel and walla, the entire job now is a total cinch.

One of the best mods I've done!

$270.00 ? Wowsa!!!  Too rich for my wallet. I'll stick to the 29 cent rag and a catch pan, thank you. JMHO.

[HogDude]

$270.00 ? Wowsa!!!  Too rich for my wallet. I'll stick to the 29 cent rag and a catch pan, thank you. JMHO.

 

[VAZHOG]

I read quite a bit when surfing for the HD oil manufacturer - after I found Sunoco.  Lots of sites put up by lots of Amsoil folks, so I tend to be more than a mite skeptical when somebody selling something trashes their competition.  No need for dissing if their product is truly superior, IMHO.  I know folks using all 3, who are pleased with all 3.  Most important is regular changes and regular maintenance - both dependent upon riding styles and conditions.

Kinda like Coke Vrs Pepsi It's all about what you believe.

[VAZHOG]

$270.00 ? Wowsa!!!  Too rich for my wallet. I'll stick to the 29 cent rag and a catch pan, thank you. JMHO.

It's the Al Gore Filter- Better for you to use it than him

[Midnight Rider]

I read quite a bit when surfing for the HD oil manufacturer - after I found Sunoco.  Lots of sites put up by lots of Amsoil folks, so I tend to be more than a mite skeptical when somebody selling something trashes their competition.  No need for dissing if their product is truly superior, IMHO.  I know folks using all 3, who are pleased with all 3.  Most important is regular changes and regular maintenance - both dependent upon riding styles and conditions.

I'm skeptical too, Mike.  I've not tried Amsoil, simply because it has not been as convenient for me to aquire.  I cannot attest to the lubricating qualities of Mobil 1 vs Syn3, other than what I was told by an Eng friend who works for Mobil (he also praised Amsoil as equally good to his product), but I convey my personal experiences.  Changed over from Ducati's recommended syn product (I think it was made by Shell) to Mobil 1 MTX 10w40...immediately noticed cooler oil temps as indicated on the LED dash...within 50 miles of running, Transmission shifts were drastically improved.  On my SEUC, when changing from Syn3 to Mobil I Vtwin, the top end of the motor definitely got quieter.  I purchased my bike at the beginning of the summer here in Alabama, and the oil temps improved approx 15 degrees as well.  Motor is definitely quieter with the Mobil 1 product.  Syn 3 is no doubt a low bid product.  Many use it without issue, but if I've got a choice, it's not for me.

[Twolanerider]

$270.00 ? Wowsa!!!  Too rich for my wallet. I'll stick to the 29 cent rag and a catch pan, thank you. JMHO.

Had no idea they cost that much.  I won one of the silly things as a door prize at a dealership Saturday party a couple of months or so ago.  Hadn't ever even taken it out of the box yet.  Where oil filters were concerned really was of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought.  Especially for that much $$$ difference.

Know I'll have to look at it more closely. 

So this thing really keeps you from making a mess on the motor?

Really would like to see a pic of it actually installed.

[VAZHOG]

I'm skeptical too, Mike.  I've not tried Amsoil, simply because it has not been as convenient for me to aquire.  I cannot attest to the lubricating qualities of Mobil 1 vs Syn3, other than what I was told by an Eng friend who works for Mobil (he also praised Amsoil as equally good to his product), but I convey my personal experiences.  Changed over from Ducati's recommended syn product (I think it was made by Shell) to Mobil 1 MTX 10w40...immediately noticed cooler oil temps as indicated on the LED dash...within 50 miles of running, Transmission shifts were drastically improved.  On my SEUC, when changing from Syn3 to Mobil I Vtwin, the top end of the motor definitely got quieter.  I purchased my bike at the beginning of the summer here in Alabama, and the oil temps improved approx 15 degrees as well.  Motor is definitely quieter with the Mobil 1 product.  Syn 3 is no doubt a low bid product.  Many use it without issue, but if I've got a choice, it's not for me.

If you believe it then it's true for you

[Midnight Rider]

If you believe it then it's true for you

This ain't religion, it's science.

Of particular concern to me with Syn3 is I have never been able to locate the API information anywhere on the bottle to determine what spec it meets.  HD wants you to "believe" it's products are superior...that is misplaced faith in many instances.

[mrmagloo]

Sorry guys, been on the road for a couple of days.  I got the Definitive5 for 20% off - Actually for 23% off.  It was still about 2 bills, but I can't tell you what a time saver it is!  On my SED, there is just no way to get anything under the filter. I've tried everything, plastic pop bottles, gizmos from Drag Specialty, aluminum foil and every other tip or trick I've read. All that nonsense at best did marginably better, and at worse made a bigger mess..

On my SED, I had the dealer do the first change. I got it back and althought they did wipe it down, and at first glance it looked clean, when I got it home there was oil all over the place. Took 1/2 a day to remove everything to clean the mess properly. I like to keep my bike detailed to a T.

My first shot, I tried a couple of the 'tips' above, and found the easy way was to simply loosen the filter slowly and mop the oil as it leaks out. Took forever.  I'd eventually get impatient, and once the oil got out of that valley, I'd have to remove the regulator, the spoiler, the frame covers, etc., to clean it up - A real PIA!

As such, while I assume the filtration performance is on par with the stocker, that wasn't my selling point. When I saw how this thing worked, I immediately realized that by having the housing fixed, and you only remove the cap, this totally solves this age - old oil mess problem once and for all, because the oil is now evacuating near the outboard of the block where you can get a funnel.  For do it yourselfers, this turns a messy - potientally time consuming job, into a very quick and absolutely clean 5 minute job.  If your time is important, $200 was money in the bank to me. Frankly, I'd pay twice that after using it so far.

I don't have a pic handy of my bike with it installed, but here's a blow up of the pic from the Harley site.  If you look closely, the end cap of the housing is knerled and it unscrews there.  You simply put a little funnel right below, turn the cap a few turns to get one of the holes flowing, and it empties the housing very nicely. When it stops, remove the cap completely, pop out the filter, throw in a new one, wipe it down, tighten the cap, and you're all done. Very slick.

[Twolanerider]

Is a strap wrench of some kind used to loosen the end cap?  If so how much access is there with shifter and other sundry bits in the way?

[mrmagloo]

They do include a strap wench, but I found it didn't work very well. I put a shop rag over it, and carefully used a large channel lock, and that worked like a champ.

The config of the SED leaves it wide open for a funnel. The entire housing is about 1 to 2" or so longer than a stock filter, so I would suggest simply trying to get a funnel near your stock filter. If you can get it close to the top of the stocker, you should be fine - Might want to try a few different funnels.  Before I did the install, I eyeballed it and could see this would work just fine for me. For the touring bikes you might have to remove the floor board perhaps?

[Twolanerider]

They do include a strap wench, but I found it didn't work very well. I put a shop rag over it, and carefully used a large channel lock, and that worked like a champ.

The config of the SED leaves it wide open for a funnel. The entire housing is about 1 to 2" or so longer than a stock filter, so I would suggest simply trying to get a funnel near your stock filter. If you can get it close to the top of the stocker, you should be fine - Might want to try a few different funnels.  Before I did the install, I eyeballed it and could see this would work just fine for me. For the touring bikes you might have to remove the floor board perhaps?

The floorboard is part of the my concern.  Of course if it only pours out the end then old piece of plastic or other channeling device might be much easier and more effective than they are with the standard oil filter.

[HogDude]

I don't have a pic handy of my bike with it installed, but here's a blow up of the pic from the Harley site.  If you look closely, the end cap of the housing is knerled and it unscrews there.  You simply put a little funnel right below, turn the cap a few turns to get one of the holes flowing, and it empties the housing very nicely. When it stops, remove the cap completely, pop out the filter, throw in a new one, wipe it down, tighten the cap, and you're all done. Very slick.

Thanks for the post and detail of you procedure. I would concur with Twolaner, the fitment on a bagger will be of concern, but it's certainly worth looking into. 

[mrmagloo]

Yes, there are a million different configurations of funnels out there nowadays - just a std old funnel I had laying around worked fine. The big key is, by draining near the outboard end, you finally have the clearance to actually get something under it. If a funnel won't work, the plastic pop bottle will, but the big difference is, you will collect every last drop with zero mess.

Anyway, like I said, your mileage may vary. It is a pricy mod, but for DYI'ers, it's a big, big help. Definitely, scope it out first and decide whether it's worthwhile for you. To me, the thing is worth it's weight in gold.

[spookytooth]

Several years ago at Daytona, HD had a tech presentation about engine oil.
The engineer who gave the talk was very nice an knowledgable. After her
presentation a few of us were asking some follow up questions as other
were filing out. She was reluctant to say at first but finally admitted to working
for Sun Oil. She said that Sunoco and HD had a long working relationship and
that they spend of good deal of time at the HD factory.

As for the mess of draining the oil.  As for the SEUC, I got a device from
"E-Glide Goodies". It is a cheap little plastic p.o.s. that when I opened the
box felt like a real idiot for buying but the bottom line is it works great.
Not a drop to clean up after.

[Smiler]

Smiler,
I was looking at their site last week and was curious if anyone had tried them and what their thoughts were.

I bought the Softail one and found it brilliant. It covers everything the tools you need and step by step instructions of how to maintain your motorcycle.   If your anything like me (I'd f**k up the working parts of a mop) you'll find it invaluble.
There's also another thread, can't remember which one but I had great starter instructions from a couple of the guys.

[HogDude]

I bought the Softail one and found it brilliant. It covers everything the tools you need and step by step instructions of how to maintain your motorcycle.   If your anything like me (I'd f**k up the working parts of a mop) you'll find it invaluble.
There's also another thread, can't remember which one but I had great starter instructions from a couple of the guys.

I understand completely. 
Their DVD is on my wish list now.

[REGGAB]

I've gone from using Bel-Ray in the transmission to AMSOIL MCV in all three holes for no other reason than convenience.  I buy the MCV by the case.  It comes directly to my door.........just like our dog food does (makes a great topic for this term's supply chain management research paper), and it costs about $7.00 a quart.  I've developed my own system to get the old oil out, since I now change all three every 3K.  Drain all three first.  As for the oil filter, I slide a plastic Walmart bag under the filter and place a gallon sized ziplock bag around the filter.  I break torque with the oil filter wrench, then spin it off through the ziplock.  90% of the oil goes into the ziplock with the filter, and the remaining 10% is caught by the Walmart bag.  It has been a long time since I've goofed up and gotten oil on the bike after a filter removal.  Using just one oil means I only carry one oil in the saddlebag during trips.  Huge space saver.

[HogDude]

I've gone from using Bel-Ray in the transmission to AMSOIL MCV in all three holes for no other reason than convenience.  I buy the MCV by the case.  It comes directly to my door.........just like our dog food does (makes a great topic for this term's supply chain management research paper), and it costs about $7.00 a quart.  I've developed my own system to get the old oil out, since I now change all three every 3K.  Drain all three first.  As for the oil filter, I slide a plastic Walmart bag under the filter and place a gallon sized ziplock bag around the filter.  I break torque with the oil filter wrench, then spin it off through the ziplock.  90% of the oil goes into the ziplock with the filter, and the remaining 10% is caught by the Walmart bag.  It has been a long time since I've goofed up and gotten oil on the bike after a filter removal.  Using just one oil means I only carry one oil in the saddlebag during trips.  Huge space saver.

Thanks for the info... Yeah, I've decided to go with 1 brand myself to save the hassle of dealing with multiple brands.
I see you're getting that post count up; must have not slept last night !  WOW....

[mr_magoo]

REGGAB do you get any noise out of the tranny running the 20-50 in it?  I'm using the 75-140 severe gear, would be nice to go to 1 oil.

[REGGAB]

REGGAB do you get any noise out of the tranny running the 20-50 in it?  I'm using the 75-140 severe gear, would be nice to go to 1 oil.

No Sir!  Just as quiet as it was with the Bel-Ray Gear Saver 85W140..........and it clicks into gear easier when cold.  Smooth as glass and very quiet.  Very happy with the change.

[REGGAB]

Thanks for the info... Yeah, I've decided to go with 1 brand myself to save the hassle of dealing with multiple brands.
I see you're getting that post count up; must have not slept last night !  WOW....

One brand just makes it so much easier, especially with a fine product like AMSOIL.  I did last term's researcch paper on AMSOIL's customer service and warranty provisions in relation to those of HD.  Learned alot during the research, which was beyond the scope of my paper.  That is when I made the switch in the transmission.  Plus, the AMSOIL doesn't smell nasty like the Bel-Ray.
I was up pretty late.  Wired!  New school term, which means another research paper over which to worry............so I tried to burn off all that energy with this site and a bottle of Glenlivet.  It kicked in shortly after 2am, so I did get a little sleep.  Full of coffee and ready for the day now.