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[dickie]

Check this out!

2003 SERK with 9800 miles....

Replaced battery three months ago.... H-D battery

Not much riding this winter here in "It never rains in Southern California" due to a lot of rain! I Put the trickle charger on the battery for two days and the red light on the charger stayed on and the green light indicating that it is in the trickle mode never came on. Didn't think much about it.

Went out for a ride today (in between monsoons). I noticed the bike was idling about 300 RPM higher than normal. Shut the bike off while I ran into the post office. No more than two minutes later I went to start the bike and got the dreaded clicking noise just like a dead battery. Luckily a friend came to the rescue with

[hd-dude]

From the systems it sounds like charging system troubles, here are some things to check:

1. Load check the battery as you stated you were going to do already. If it is bad get it replaced. You have to start with a good battery.
2. Check both battery cables at both ends to be sure they are tight.
3. With the bike running you shoud have between 13 and 14.5 volts at about 2000 rpm

[dakota]

make sure nothing is corroded on the battery and terminal ends and has good contact. Use a steel wire brush. No contact=no charging. Start with the easy things first.

[VANAMAL]

double ck battery it wouldnt be the first new battery that was bad.  also you can ck voltage on battery terminals to see if its rec a charge from bike. while not running you may get about 12.8 volts or so. while running you should have more like 13-14 volts. i bought a load tester on ebay for testing my batteries as just a volt ck will not tell you if the battery is really good or bad. ive used the tester all kinds of times and its one of those tools that you wonder how you lived without-

[mfgreen]

On the 03 Serk within the headlight housing and additionally umder the seat, you will find a pair of small diameter light blue wires....both are hot. one is in use the other is a hot wire that powers nothing. That wire has screwed up more than one 03SERK because it shorts out.  If you check it out, bring a roll of electrical tape with you. your problem will most probably cease when you finish wrapping it.
Mike

[dickie]

I charged the battery with the battery tender for three days and took it down to a independant shop here. It showed 12.4 volts and tested ok when they put a load on it. I put it back in the bike and the bike started up like normal but the red engine light came back on after it was running and went out after about five seconds. I hope the ECM stored a "trouble code" from whatever caused the problem in the first place. It is possible the battery was so weak from sitting that it caused the problem, and it just needed a good few days of charging. Who knows how long it had been sitting on the dealers shelves.

I'll let you all know what I find out from the mech. at the dealer.

[smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Rick

[mfgreen]

I charged the battery with the battery tender for three days and took it down to a independant shop here. It showed 12.4 volts and tested ok when they put a load on it. I put it back in the bike and the bike started up like normal but the red engine light came back on after it was running and went out after about five seconds. I hope the ECM stored a "trouble code" from whatever caused the problem in the first place. It is possible the battery was so weak from sitting that it caused the problem, and it just needed a good few days of charging. Who knows how long it had been sitting on the dealers shelves.

I'll let you all know what I find out from the mech. at the dealer.

 [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Rick

That's why I think you have got an intermittent short with one of those blue wires.  Didn't show up when the shop checked it for me.

[dickie]

We took the bike to the dealer Friday morning. The mechanic checked the battery and the voltage regulator, and both were okay. The ECM was spitting out electrical related trouble codes like crazy. Next check was the alternator/stator, which turned to be the culprit. Off came the primary and to work he went. Turns out the nut on the compensating sprocket came loose, thus no clamp load on the rotor. It literally ground the splines right out of the rotor. Luckily the engine shaft is hardened steel so there was no damage to it.

He replaced the stator and the rotor, cleaned out a fair amount of metal shavings. Put loctite on the compensating sprocket nut and torqued it to 175#. (NO THREADLOCK FOUND ON THE SHAFT OR NUT from the factory, and the MoCo torques the nut to 150#)
The service manager said they are seeing the exact same failure on a lot of bikes recently.

It appears that the rotor was free-wheeling on the shaft around the stator thus not producing current to the voltage regulator and battery. The battery carried the load until it ran to low and the ECM went haywire.

I asked if there is any warning of impending failure. The mech said that you may hear a slight clunk after the motor shuts off. The engine shaft stops and the rotor stops a split second later if the splines catch. I never heard it!

I can handle peeling chrome, paint flaws, and the usual Harley breakdowns. This was an unacceptible failure, that left me in traffic with no motor, no brake light, and no emergency flashers!

A  bit of loctite, the proper torque setting, and some quality control would have gone a long way in preventing a potentially deadly situation!!!

I have ridden Harleys for many years, and I always will, unless one kills me!!!!!!

Rick

[smiley=furious.gif]
     

[hd-dude]

Gald you got the problem solved. I've heard from others that the compensating nut has been a problem on several bikes lately. And your right on the QC issue, just another one to add to the list....chrome, paint, ect, ect, ect.

[Twolanerider]

Y'know one has to wonder about a real difference on our ostensibly "special" CVO bikes; and I'm speaking to their production.  Please understand this is purely queery and speculation based on nothing more than a perception of what "might be."

But in wondeing about quality control one doesn't have to stretch the mind too far to see that real and significant differences might occur between an environment where assembly is done on a modern, electronically monitored, robotically assisted assembly line (all the stock bikes) and a production line that is entirely man-powered with frames rolling by on wood carts on casters and parts coming in from P&A in a much less managed fashion.  Whether truly affecting the final quality of the output or not it is easy enough to envision a circumstance where errors (primarily of omission) would much more easily slip by on the cart trolley that is CVO assembly as opposed to the modern assembly line and monitoring procedures in place for the stock machines.

[dickie]

It's my understanding that the 95 and 103 inch motors are assembled by the same humans/robots at H-D's Wisconsin engine plant that builds the stock 88's. I would hope that quality control would be the order of the day? Maybe robots aren't smart enough to apply loctite to a critical fastener!

The human CVO assembly line then assembles the already built motor, other stock components, then adds all the bling bling we pay dearly for.

I appologize for my cynicism, but I am really pissed off about this failure!!

Rick [smiley=furious.gif]

[Twolanerider]

It's my understanding that the 95 and 103 inch motors are assembled by the same humans/robots at H-D's Wisconsin engine plant that builds the stock 88's.

Oh, I'm certain the engines come in as an assembly.  As would transmissions.  But they have to be mated somewhere on the line.  And that means the "stuff" in the primary."  But I really wasn't referring to your specific (and unfortunate) loose compensator nut.  Actually there's been a lot of that in Harley-ville the last year or so; and not just on the CVO bikes.  I was really wondering more generally what the differences in assembly related problems might be for our bikes as opposed to the GI stuff just because of the differences in their respective assembly lines.