Topic: Pressure Problem (Read 3906 times)

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **on:** May 02, 2006, 04:52:13 AM »

This afternoon I topped up my oil tank with about 1/2 a quart of oil (500 -600ml)
The oil level appeared to be OK Just under the full hot mark & the engine was warm. That all done I went or a ride, after about 15 minutes of crusing around some back streets (oil temp up to around 200) thinking this new cam seems pretty good & could feel a difference in the mid range, I came to a main road so I gave it a bit of WOT. At a bit over 5000rpm the grin came off my face! The under side of my right leg all of a sudden got hot. I tried to look down there was oil spewing out every where & smoke like you would not believe (Oil on the exhaust)
My bloody oil cap dipstick blew out and it seemed like a gallon of oil followed it. I pulled up as quick as I could & shut off the motor. There was a trail of oil for about 100 feet behind me & a big puddle where I stopped. I walked up the street about 50 yards to find a young kid had found my dipstick. I got back to my bike & dipped it, it was still 1/4 inch above the mininium mark. (I would think that would be well under a quart to fill up to the full mark) Well I rode home slowly as the side of my rear tyre & brakes were covered in oil, infact there was oil dripping off every where.
NOW the problem is WTF happened? did I not fit the dipstick correctly(I find that hard to believe, but possible) For some reason had I over filled it? or some thing I did yesterday when installing the cams & oil pump has caused excess pressure in my oil tank. Because there is more pressure on the output side does that create more pressure on the return side in my tank. The Myst Free breather is supposed to be more efficent than the stock breather. Does any one have any ideas? Please help

PS: Not to mention my wife is trying to salvage a good pair of jeans!

Cheers
Aussie

jfscheck · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2006, 06:57:44 AM »

Don't remember what type of bike you have - but if it is an "88a" bike and you checked the oil with the bike level you might have over filled it. Also, after shutting down the bike you need to wait a few minutes before you check it as well. Of course it has always been my belief the "full mark" on the stick is waaaay toooo much oil for the bike... [smiley=nervous.gif]

Either way - for what ever reason the "oil bag" had too much oil and it blew it out. Sounds odd because it seems to me that you made sure not to over fill it but ya know - stuff happens...

"Fair Dinkum" [smiley=drink.gif]

arcticdude · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2006, 10:55:52 AM »

IMHO the hot mark is full of crap. It's way too much oil for ANY harley. Think about how much expansion you'd have to have to truly get to the "hot" mark. Do you want your oil that hot?

(Just think about the oil in a frypan, how much expansion do you see at 350 degrees??) Check it cold for accuracy, check it hot only to see if there's any still there. You can easily do this- get the level where you want it cold, then ride hard for 20 minutes and let the bike sit for 5 minutes. Now check the oil. You've already indicated you can check the temp, so you'l know how hot the oil is, but I'll bet you'll find the level is still damn close to the cold mark you originally started with. The synthetics expand even less.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2006, 11:31:29 AM »

Aussie, the problem might not be anything you did or related to oil volume at all. You said you could see the oil temp. Does that mean you've got the older style oil temp reporting dipstick (i.e., not the brand new one just released)? If so a LOT of guys reported those things blowing out once in awhile. The fix was not to use that dipstick.

Just a possibility to consider.

WFP · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2006, 12:08:59 PM »

I was one who had the dipstick blow out on a hot day accellerating down an on-ramp.

/Bill

Quote

Aussie, the problem might not be anything you did or related to oil volume at all. You said you could see the oil temp. Does that mean you've got the older style oil temp reporting dipstick (i.e., not the brand new one just released)? If so a LOT of guys reported those things blowing out once in awhile. The fix was not to use that dipstick.

Just a possibility to consider.

SEvet · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2006, 12:37:16 PM »

A FULL oil tank combined with hard accelleration will pressurize the oil tank and pop the dipstick. Softtails are famous for this. I always ran my FatBoy about a cup low, otherwise I'd get blowby and the side of the oil tank was always a mess. Never really poped the dipstick out.... but I don't know that I ever had it at 5,000 rpm either. 8-)

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2006, 12:50:06 PM »

One thing you must do is wipe the rubber and the opening of the fill tube of excess oil. It will blow out under a hard load. It is toooo slick with excess oil around the opening. A little extra crankcase pressure and it is gone. I'm suprised it blew completly out though. They usually just come lose and blow oil out.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

syclone · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2006, 06:52:12 PM »

And make sure you're checking the oil level correctly when hot....on a soft tail with it's oil bag...you've got to let it idle about two minutes before you shut it off to check the level ..or the oil tank will not be full ...and you'll add too much and be overfilled .

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2006, 09:47:43 PM »

If I was to pull the plug but not change the filter how much oil to refill my Fatboy (would 3 quarts be enough?)

Cheers
Aussie

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2006, 09:50:29 PM »

Quote

Aussie, the problem might not be anything you did or related to oil volume at all. You said you could see the oil temp. Does that mean you've got the older style oil temp reporting dipstick (i.e., not the brand new one just released)? If so a LOT of guys reported those things blowing out once in awhile. The fix was not to use that dipstick.

Just a possibility to consider.

yeah, the analog type

Cheers
Aussie

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2006, 05:16:58 AM »

Twolane is this the one you mean? & does it only come out if you twist & pull?

Oil Temperature Dipstick with Lighted LCD Read out

Add function and style by replacing your stock dipstick with this hardworking version, which includes a beautiful chrome cap and LCD (liquid crystal display) oil temperature read out. The read out is push button operated with an automatic shut-off in five seconds and operates within plus or minus one degree. Designed also to stay on up to 15 minutes if desired. Fahrenheit or Celsius can be changed with a simple push button operation. The read out is displayed with a rare blue light background for easier operation at night. All LCD dipsticks now incorporate an updated and more heat resistant LCD electronic unit. Twin Cam LCD dipsticks also [highlight]include an improved twist and pull cam-lock removal feature.[/highlight] Designed to be waterproof with replaceable standard battery. Patented.

62970-02B

IN-STORE PURCHASE ONLY Contact dealer for pricing and availability.

Fits all '00-later Softail® models.

MSRP US $89.95

Cheers
Aussie

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2006, 06:34:57 AM »

Quote

Aussie, the problem might not be anything you did or related to oil volume at all. You said you could see the oil temp. Does that mean you've got the older style oil temp reporting dipstick (i.e., not the brand new one just released)? If so a LOT of guys reported those things blowing out once in awhile. The fix was not to use that dipstick.

Just a possibility to consider.

Twolane,
I forgot to mention your a ''legend" mate, fitted my stock dipstick after degreasing my whole bike & went for a bit of a run . I nervously took the revs to the limit & there was no problem. But unfortunately this has still left me a bit paranoid about it happening again. Does the new LED dipstick have a locking system??? Also do you know the part #.
I assume this is not the one you mean 62970-02B

PS: I rekon the oil was a touch over full as well.

Cheers
Aussie

arcticdude · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2006, 09:19:36 AM »

The non-softail version has a "lock" to speak of, but the picture you showed did not have anything like the other version. Caution with the lock style- if turned the wrong direction, you'll screw it up and it'll come apart on you. The top will be in your hand and the stick will be in the hole. It may not happen immediately after turning the wrong direction, it may take several months before it comes apart.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2006, 11:47:02 AM »

Quote

Twolane is this the one you mean? & does it only come out if you twist & pull?

That's the one that so many seemed to have problems with. They've been changed from what you see pictured there though. Now have this robust "looking" bearing/lock system that is also on the new oil level/temp dipsticks. Though they look pretty robust have already heard of a couple of the new ones breaking when they got twisted too hard or the wrong direction (or something).

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2006, 06:20:05 PM »

Any idea of a part # for Softail?

Cheers
Aussie

hogasm · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2006, 08:22:11 PM »

Aussie, Have you done any work to this motor? If so then did you upgrade the oil pump? It is possible that the spring is allowing too much pressure to build up in the pan. If I am correct the pressure guage wont read what the pressure is in the pan. This will cause the dip stick to come out.

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2006, 08:31:56 PM »

Quote

Aussie, Have you done any work to this motor? If so then did you upgrade the oil pump? It is possible that the spring is allowing too much pressure to build up in the pan. If I am correct the pressure guage wont read what the pressure is in the pan. This will cause the dip stick to come out.

hogasm,
Yes I fitted a feuling super pump & lifters & also the Zippers pressure relief spring shim.
Do you know a fix??

Cheers
Aussie

JR · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2006, 10:40:30 PM »

I have one of the older temp dipsticks and had it a couple years on my Road King with no problems. Then when I took ownership of my Banana momma and I went for a little scoot and I got on a nice open road and let er rip and heard a ewe, ewe, ewe.....I look down and my dipstick came up but not all the way out. Mommas foot and ankle was covered with hot oil!

I had a couple T shirts in my bag and cleaned it up and drove home and bathed the new Banana.

I reported the incident on this site and found out that the twist lock mechanism was the culprit! I now push in the dipstick and give it the pull test to be sure it's down! If I have to adjust the position of the read out I ALWAYS remove it and push it down where I want it! 10,000 miles and no further incidents. Sorry it got you too!

God Bless!

JR [smiley=banana.gif]

grc · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2006, 10:43:55 PM »

I'm not familiar with the system on a Softtail, but the Dyna and Touring models have the oil pan vented directly to the cam cavity in the engine (the chrome line with the rubber end all the E-glide folks bitch about). As long as the oil pan is not overfilled, it will not be pressurized by the scavenge side of the pump. The Softtails remote tank has to be vented also, check to make sure nothing was kinked or blocked during your engine work. Do not overfill, since that will defeat the venting system.

Jerry

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2006, 07:12:44 AM »

Quote

I'm not familiar with the system on a Softtail, but the Dyna and Touring models have the oil pan vented directly to the cam cavity in the engine (the chrome line with the rubber end all the E-glide folks bitch about). As long as the oil pan is not overfilled, it will not be pressurized by the scavenge side of the pump. The Softtails remote tank has to be vented also, check to make sure nothing was kinked or blocked during your engine work. Do not overfill, since that will defeat the venting system.

Jerry

Jerry,
It is similar on the softail I checked it out & the oil tank has a vent pipe which goes to the cam cavity,
I must have over filled it, as I gave it a bit of a work out today & had o problem. One thing I did notice was since changing the oil, the oil seems to heat up a lot quicker. I'm not sure if it is because the oil is circulating faster or because I did not use syn3 this time, I just used a standard 20/50 oil(for V-Twins) As I seem to be changing the oil at 1200 - 1500 mile intervals, so I figure a good quality non syn oil will be fine.

Cheers
Aussie

lucky1 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2006, 10:08:45 AM »

I was getting a slight leak at high revs on my FLSTFSE. The chrome trim piece on the side of the seat was pushing the oil cap to the side. I made a small adjustment to the trim piece, and no more leak.(Please don't tell my dealer that I touched MY bike, or they'll Void my warrenty.) If your oil is getting hotter sooner, the bearings are doing the same. Syn oil can handle higher temp than conventional oil.

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:16:24 AM »

I am still having some problems with my oil tank & pressure, I hadn't started it for a week & the oil light did not go out for about 10 seconds when I started it. I figured that while sitting the oil drains fron the tank down into the motor & it is not until the scavange pump refills the tank the pressure pump can get oil. I must have damaged an O-Ring on assembly. I did check the stick after warming up & the level was fine but 4 hours later there was nothing on the stick. I guess I will have to take her apart for a look! Any suggestions???

Cheers
Aussie

Unbalanced · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2006, 03:18:42 PM »

Aussie,

I have the same problem with the pumpkin i need to leave it about 1/2 short of the line on the dipstick or it will build up to much pressure in the case and well create a lawn dart. I figured it out the hard way by adding 3 quarts and then just adding a bit until it blew out again and found a happy medium to not have it happen again. I didnt want to guess for a long time and have it blow out on the wife somewhere.

-harry

spydglide · « **Reply #23 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:06:34 PM »

Quote

Aussie,

I have the same problem with the pumpkin [highlight]i need to leave it about 1/2 short of the line on the dipstick [/highlight]or it will build up to much pressure in the case and well create a lawn dart. I figured it out the hard way by adding 3 quarts and then just adding a bit until it blew out again and found a happy medium to not have it happen again. I didnt want to guess for a long time and have it blow out on the wife somewhere.

-harry

You're talking measuring it 'cold' over on the sidestand, right Harry? spyder

CVOJOE · « **Reply #24 on:** June 17, 2006, 05:59:45 PM »

Aussie,
Don't see one listed for the softails which has the LED oil level, seems so far only available for touring models.

Here's the info on the other model, but this does not have the robust looking device that seems to lock the dipstick that the touring models do.

Oil Temperature Dipstick with Lighted LCD Read out
This product is available in multiple variations. Be sure to look for the one that fits the specific model and year of your motorcycle. 62970-02B Fits all '00-later Softail® models.

MSRP US $89.95 Oil Temperature Dipstick with Lighted LCD Read out

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2006, 07:48:46 PM »

Quote

I am still having some problems with my oil tank & pressure, I hadn't started it for a week & the oil light did not go out for about 10 seconds when I started it. I figured that while sitting the oil drains fron the tank down into the motor & it is not until the scavange pump refills the tank the pressure pump can get oil. I must have damaged an O-Ring on assembly. I did check the stick after warming up & the level was fine but 4 hours later there was nothing on the stick. I guess I will have to take her apart for a look! Any suggestions???

Cheers
Aussie

Yep Aussie you have a problem. You need to open her up and look at the pump and the O ring on the connector.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:15:01 PM »

THE DAWG,
I was waiting for your reply to confirm my fears, do you think this may have caused any internal damage? (I have only done a couple of hundred miles in this condition) Could this be wet sumping a little bit?

Cheers
Aussie

PS: Its too cold for me to ride at the moment anyway 12 C (about 50 F) I will have a look inside during the week if I get a chance or next week end at the latest.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2006, 10:20:32 PM »

Quote

THE DAWG,
I was waiting for your reply to confirm my fears, do you think this may have caused any internal damage? (I have only done a couple of hundred miles in this condition) Could this be wet sumping a little bit?

Cheers
Aussie

PS: Its too cold for me to ride at the moment anyway 12 C (about 50 F) I will have a look inside during the week if I get a chance or next week end at the latest.

Aussie I think you will be OK but DON'T RIDE IT UNTIL you correct the problem. When they wet sump they also produce a lot of heat. After the repair you must change your oil and filter.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #28 on:** June 17, 2006, 11:19:50 PM »

Quote

Aussie I think you will be OK but DON'T RIDE IT UNTIL you correct the problem. When they wet sump they also produce a lot of heat. After the repair you must change your oil and filter.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks, I'll let you know what I find!

Cheers
Aussie

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2006, 04:37:53 PM »

Yeah, had a badly damaged O-ring. Obviously happened on assembly, this time fitted the pump to the cam support plate first & fitted it in the cam chest as one piece. It appears to be a better way to do it & avoid any O-rings moving. Changed filter & tried my C.O.R.S. It was great. Also fitted a Arlen Ness rocker box mounted pressure guage. Thats unbelievable 70psi cold at idle & 30psi hot at idle (just ordered a 100psi replacement guage as the Ness only comes with a 60psi) & about 60psi when crusing at 3000rpm also seems to run about 20 -30 degrees F cooler. The oil use to get to about 230 but it did not even get to 200, but it was a cool day. It now feels, sounds & runs bloody great.

Cheers
Aussie [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Fired00d · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:54:10 PM »

Glad to hear that this is all fixed and it was a minor problem (well minor in cost anyway). [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Nothing like the benefits of the Feuling Oil Pump.

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

AUSSIE_FLSTFSE · « **Reply #31 on:** July 24, 2006, 06:05:25 PM »

Quote

Glad to hear that this is all fixed and it was a minor problem (well minor in cost anyway). [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Nothing like the benefits of the Feuling Oil Pump.

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

Thanx dOOd!

Author Topic: Pressure Problem (Read 3906 times)

hogasm